Why are you not vegan Leo?

[Aratrok]

8 hours ago, Display_Name said:

Great. See, most vegans are self deceiving hypocrites that will only go as far to make a change as they are comfortable.

Does that mean you're vegan? @Display_Name

You have very strong delusional ideas of what people are and do.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Aratrok

[JessiChell]

@Aratrok

You know better than to go back and forth with carnists on an online forum. That is deep, deep conditioning and lack of health education you're up against. We know that every human being, being one of the three grate apes can survive on a vegan diet, but even doctors preach against this. So people with health problems have gotten validation from their physicians that they need animal proteins or some random nutrient. (lol)

To break down conditioning you need to have footage of slaughter, physical touch, and compassion. They need to feel safe and reassured because their reality will be changing. I understand they're here so they must be somewhat open minded. But you have to take what people say with a grain of salt. Always. They're not as open minded as they think. 

I've had to see pigs put into a gas chamber and become an activist to fully grasp what I was contributing to. 

The same way we have to do tons of meditation or psychedelics to see what's on the other side, they will need to see animals skinned, boiled and and chopped up while alive to fully grasp what's on the other side.

I always encourage other vegans to get active. Do educational activism where people are viewing this while you have a calm conversation with them. You see reality hit them and then you see the change in their eyes and it's beautiful. (Also a way to pick up vegan women.) 

@Display_Name I have some ptsd and misanthropy from this that I'm actively working on changing. I use to get into online debates and felt so much hate towards humans who I thought were a plague on the earth. I was ignorant and felt helpless. Which is how most vegans feel after seeing truth. So any temperament you see, anger, aggression, etc is from them seeing reality and feeling helpless to do anything about it. 

If you really believe that everyone is you. (And yes, animals are someone) Then you will resonate with the vegan message. 

Truth/Reality: Don't allow your conditioning to protect you from their suffering 
https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch

Philosophy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGQDLprA8

I won't argue with you either. You are either ready to accept truth or not.  

 

[Aratrok]

@JessiChell I wasn't planning on arguing. Originally this post was about Leo not being vegan. I was trying to find out why and maybe could help with that, but some seem to get triggered.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Aratrok

[JessiChell]

@Aratrok It's definitely triggering for people. I'd say the most triggering topic there is. Look at how it dismantles the inner work community. 

I see your original intent. I hear you. 

Wish you well, brother. 

[Aratrok]

@JessiChell Thank you. I wish you all the best!

[LfcCharlie4]

16 hours ago, JessiChell said:

@Aratrok

You know better than to go back and forth with carnists on an online forum. That is deep, deep conditioning and lack of health education you're up against. We know that every human being, being one of the three grate apes can survive on a vegan diet, but even doctors preach against this. So people with health problems have gotten validation from their physicians that they need animal proteins or some random nutrient. (lol)

To break down conditioning you need to have footage of slaughter, physical touch, and compassion. They need to feel safe and reassured because their reality will be changing. I understand they're here so they must be somewhat open minded. But you have to take what people say with a grain of salt. Always. They're not as open minded as they think. 

I've had to see pigs put into a gas chamber and become an activist to fully grasp what I was contributing to. 

The same way we have to do tons of meditation or psychedelics to see what's on the other side, they will need to see animals skinned, boiled and and chopped up while alive to fully grasp what's on the other side.

I always encourage other vegans to get active. Do educational activism where people are viewing this while you have a calm conversation with them. You see reality hit them and then you see the change in their eyes and it's beautiful. (Also a way to pick up vegan women.) 

@Display_Name I have some ptsd and misanthropy from this that I'm actively working on changing. I use to get into online debates and felt so much hate towards humans who I thought were a plague on the earth. I was ignorant and felt helpless. Which is how most vegans feel after seeing truth. So any temperament you see, anger, aggression, etc is from them seeing reality and feeling helpless to do anything about it. 

If you really believe that everyone is you. (And yes, animals are someone) Then you will resonate with the vegan message. 

Truth/Reality: Don't allow your conditioning to protect you from their suffering 
https://www.dominionmovement.com/watch

Philosophy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGQDLprA8

I won't argue with you either. You are either ready to accept truth or not.  

 

These are such great points. 
 

Regarding the all is you point, that is key. 
 

Ramana Maharshi didn’t eat animals for that reason. 
 

Francis & Rupert Spira don’t for that reason too, spiritual beings have been abiding meat for millennia (Buddha!) 

I actually disagree with my own teachers on this who eat meat, like you say it is decades of conditioning that usually needs a guiding voice to help you see it. 
 

For example Francis learned about vegetarianism from Jean Klein, and then Rupert from Francis. Most have no idea what goes into this industry. 
 

And, like you say arguing with fandoms online or offline is pointless, I rarely even mention it to my friends anymore.

[Space]

11 hours ago, tesla said:

I'm not going to bother debating everyone's individual points here. Instead, for anyone who is seriously interested in researching this further, you can go and see for yourself:

• Read The China Study by T. Colin Campbell
• Look at https://nutritionfacts.org/
• Watch Dominion/Earthlings/Game Changers
• Look into the evidence for the environmental impacts
• Try a proper whole foods plant based diet yourself

If you've done all that and still haven't noticed benefits from a whole foods plant based diet. Pretty much the only reason is because you have some underlying gut issue, such as leaky gut, SIBO, or something else. Going and eating foods that are proven to be super unhealthy (such as meat) to mask your symptoms is not the solution, it's only masking the problem, not to mention leading to other health consequences. The solution is to fix any underlying gut issues you have, whilst going on a whole foods plant based elimination diet tailored to the foods you tolerate well, and that's not hard.

 

... the ultimate vegan starter pack haha. Like a broken record nowadays.

It honestly baffles me that some people think every human being on the planet could eat a vegan diet and everyone would just be super duper healthy.

It seems much more likely that there is a very wide spectrum with regard to metabolic types. Some people do very well on a vegan diet, some people need much more animal protein, some people are in between. 

The point about gut health may have some truth to it, but again, just because someone has a perfectly healthy gut does not imply that they could just eat a vegan diet. Why would anyone assume that? It completely disregards differences in metabolic typing.

Just for the record, I have read the China Study, I have used the nutrition facts website, I have seen the documentaries, I have researched the environmental impacts and I spent 12 months on a vegan diet - 4 years later I am still recovering.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Space

[StarStruck]

I usually eat beef or steak 3 times a week. My body just demands it. It is important to listen to your body. If you do, you don't even want unhealthy stuff. I would say I eat a lot of greens too so I'm vegan + meat eater.

[Display_Name]

@Amandine Agreed??

[bliss54]

I reckon we need to get energy from the source

If we aren't getting energy from the source, then some people feel better on non vegan foods

But I'm not ever going to eat animals again

[wwhy]

On 7/7/2020 at 11:08 PM, Aratrok said:

I do not agree that this is everyone's personal choice, just like beating people up isn't.

Those are sentient creatures.

I am a lion, and can confirm this. We are all sentient.

I feel really bad after hunting down and eating a sentient zebra. But whats a lion to do?

[Aratrok]

@wwhy i feel for you, but thank god we humans aren't lions though.

[Amandine]

On 09/07/2020 at 6:48 PM, Aratrok said:

@Display_Name

You have very strong delusional ideas of what people are and do.

I agree ? @Aratrok 

Anyways my 2 cents on what can be done to encourage people to stop eating so much meat. 

Higher levies on meat could reduce climate impacts, help farmers move their production away from meat, encourage healthier diets (a lot of meats are carcinogenic, especially red meat and processed meat) AND improve animal welfare, but they have to be applied on an international level, nothing less will do.

It is after all in humanity's global interest if we want to save the planet from further (irreversible) destruction.

No point say France hiking meat prices if the French are then going to buy cheaper meat from Poland.

Even if the US government raised meat taxes, they still buy most of their meat frozen anyway from places like Thailand, Mexico, etc.

A world-wide "sustainability charge" or "carbon charge" (call it what you will) on meat to cover its environmental damage could raise billions that could be used to fund research and production of other sustainable (lab) meat substitutes for humans, animals and our pets to eat.

A lot of meat is used in public canteens in hospitals, schools, government offices, prisons, etc, so on a national individual level, governments could supporting a carbon tax on high-impact food and lead by example, by removing or at  least reducing unsustainable foods as much as possible. 

Food companies could make plant-based products the default choice, for example at catered events or on flights, and receive a premium from the state?

We really have no choice though, we keep our heads buried in the sand at our own (and our children's) peril.

Here's hoping UNEP, Bill Gates and co. can galvanize themselves to real action to effect radical practical changes on the world stage in our lifetime. We're running out of time. ??

 

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”― Mahatma Gandhi

Edited July 22, 2020 by Amandine

[Avi Khomutovsky]

@LfcCharlie4  do you think eating just fruits and veggies will do good to me after you read this book you talked about? and maybe oats sometimes, even if i dont have the time to read the book and do the cleansing in the book?

[purerogue]

Never ending cycle, should make a copy,paste archive!

What is more funny is that half of vegans here are trying to convince how  superior their diet is and just can't accept fact that there is such thing as different genes,tolerances. I bet they would try to convince person without legs that he can actually run , he is just doing something wrong.  

Edited September 12, 2020 by purerogue

[Sine]

On 7.7.2020 at 10:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

I've tried it multiple times but given my thyroid condition, a vegan diet simply does not give me enough energy to function. I would have to be eating every couple of hours not to feel hungry and cold.

And I do not consume any wheat or grain products. Most vegans eat garbage grains to make up the bulk of their calories.

High carb diets do not make me feel good.

Did you ever try an only fruit and vegetable diet (low fat)?  I have the same thyroid condition as you and it really helped me with it - much more energy. 

[Villager Albert]

I have no problem with veganism but look up Rob Greenfield if you think that veganism is the most sustainable diet. If it was, Rob would be doing it. You will get it when you hear him talk.

[Avi Khomutovsky]

@purerogue  yea i guess different genes and tolerance, make sense. 

but after looking some films like game changers, and thinking that great people like Leonardo da vinchi, Eisenstein, Nikola tesla, say good stuff about veganism, vegetarian diets and follow these, it makes me wonder maybe there is something about it. i just want to know what it best for the body and i think with science we have the possibility verify it now, it should be simple. i really want a simple answer but i guess its all about experiment and seeing for yourself. right now i am really confused after trying amen ra protocol, veganism, i really dont sure. the think is that the way those cows are taking care of now is just disgusting to think eating that, its all about the money now.  

[Avi Khomutovsky]

@Villager Albert i looked him up, it make sense what he said. black and white thinking is the problem, there is no one answer that fits everyone, i love that ,no dogma and locked mind.

[Sia]

On 7/8/2020 at 2:03 PM, Michael569 said:

A lot of vegans assume a moral high ground and it these kinds of arguments that turn people away. Because you are not talking from a place of love, compassion and understanding but from a position of arrogance and (self-perceived) superiority. I stopped being vegan because I used to become that and because I was judgemental and hateful of everyone who dared to contradict my opinion. 

The same thing happened to me when i was vegan for some time, and when i became aware of my way of thinking about other people who were not vegan i got scared of myself, in some way you think you are acting out of love and in other way you start hating others who don't agree with your ideology which is totally an absurd state of mind health. I think right now we are in such an state, fighting with each other until finding out that it's not gonna take us anywhere.