Thinking you are above others leads to mental instability

[Nivsch]

Always. And you will have more and stronger ego backlashes until you (and me) learn the lesson the inner child wants to teach us, and that is you are a vulnerable child always and in any age. You are also equal to your friends and family and never above your environment.

This night i had 20-30 minutes of crying which during them I felt re-integrated again to my inner child. Now i understands that i felt many months that i am a little "above" my family. Its not that i really thought this in a rational way absolutely not. But i had a subtle FEELING all the time the I like felt that i am above them or knows more and etc.

After this reintegration I feel now more pure, more child, and more equal to my parents and family and this is a great feeling. Feels far more healthy. And my anxiety reduced.

I hope its ok just to share and show here my insights and feelings. I post it not only because it is very significant to me, but also because i think it can be valuable also to other people here.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Nivsch

[Javfly33]

Yeah it amazes me how I once I started seeing clearly that I wasn't above anybody else, I started seeing people interesting and most importantly I stopped comparing myself to anyone. 

 

[Pacific Sage]

Amen! No one's below, no one's above.

[exhale]

@Nivsch Your experience and resulting awareness reminds me of my own. 

I'd like to share something that I have recently learned.  I'm not sure if this applies to you, but some key words that you said resonated with my situation.  Take it or leave it.  

As someone with relatively high self-esteem, I have been fortunate to have many successes in life.  I work hard, and I achieve my goals, and I feel good about it.  

Though, things changed In the past 6 months: I have had a change in my professional circumstance in that I am not working much (and not achieving) and I had become miserable (increasing anxiety and depression). With time, I had become aware that my happiness was contingent on "work", "drive" "success" or "achievement".  In addition, because I had increasing anxiety and depression, I was "failing" to manifest my goals in personal development (I was not achieving).  This created a self-critical spiral, where I would feel down, then be hard on myself for feeling down, and isolate myself out of shame (I wasn't aware it was shame until I talked to someone).    

I became informed of the paucity of "self-compassion" that I have for myself.  It was pointed out that I give myself no room for error, because if I did, then I would be like everyone else.  My self-talk is that "I am not like everyone else".  This is a "narcissism-light" type of mindset, and this is at the dark side of it.

There is a really interesting interplay between "self-esteem" and "self-compassion" and there is a ton of content about it online (articles, ted talks, etc.).  Apparently, high self-esteem and low self-compassion is an increasingly common trait that has indirectly been born out of the self-esteem movement in the 90's and 2000's.  

As you would have guessed by my description, my "self-esteem" is too high, so that my expectations of myself are too high.  When these high expectations aren't met, I have such low "self-compassion" that I do not forgive myself (insert anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness).  Then, I isolate myself from my loved ones out of subconscious "shame". 

I am at the infancy of becoming aware of this personality trait, and am working to improve my self-compassion.  

 

 

[Forestluv]

“Above” and “below” needs an “I” to be personally upsetting. 

Calculus is above algebra, yet it is not upsetting because “I” does not identify as being Calculus or algebra. 

A monkey is intellectually above a mouse, yet this is not upsetting since “I” does not identify as being a monkey or mouse. 

As well, the survival of “I” is not dependent on the aboveness of calculus vs. algebra or monkeys vs mice. Therefore, it isn’t personally upsetting.  

A personal “I” needs to enter for personal upset to arise. 

[exhale]

Correct.  Ego is fundamental here.  Though, some of us are still operating in the "I am a human" paradigm.

[Forestluv]

29 minutes ago, exhale said:

Correct.  Ego is fundamental here.  Though, some of us are still operating in the "I am a human" paradigm.

Yes, both at bot personal and human levels. 

In respect to mathematical knowledge and skill, a calculus teacher is above an algebra student. Yet this isn’t upsetting to “I” if there is no “I” personally identifying as the calculus teacher or algebra student. 

[Arcangelo]

 

I am above over you I am standing above...

[Codrina]

@exhale  I do the same thing. I became aware of the process but didn't try to describe it. Thank you. Putting it in words helps. 

My mind likes to think that I am better than others, in a certain situation, but that is no longer a belief I hold. And it was never a totalitarian belief. I would see myself better in some situations and worse in other. (Hard to give up judgement when all we do is judge - judge the situation and the proper response to it...)

I still think I am different than most people. Not better or worse, just different - obviously not on an absolute level - but just here; in persona. 

And I believe that it's the case with people here. We are here because we are somewhat different and this space allows us to meet the few out there with whom we share more than with people in our lives.

[NoSelfSelf]

We are not equal in a physical sense that is a delusion

[Bill W]

Worker among workers as we say in AA. 

[TheAlchemist]

"We're all just walking each other home" like Ram Dass used to say ❤

[Javfly33]

19 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes, both at bot personal and human levels. 

In respect to mathematical knowledge and skill, a calculus teacher is above an algebra student. Yet this isn’t upsetting to “I” if there is no “I” personally identifying as the calculus teacher or algebra student. 

@Serotoninluv Interesting. Never have thought it like that. I wonder then, when we are students in a classroom we "know" that we are students, but we don´t identify with being a student because if then we would feel inferior?

[Recursoinominado]

Yeah, i have this problem. 

I always think of myself as way more conscios then most people but i also don't think myself as better then them, just somenone who did the inner-work while most people did not and they would be just as awesome if they put in the work.

To be completaly honest, i still did'nt decided if this is a reasonable approach or i am being self-biased and narcisistic.

Also, sometimes (not always), when i speak to people about self-actualization, they can react badly and start to get agressive and attack accusing me of thinking i am better than them. When i speak phrases like "yeah, i used to think like that too but not i have a better (in the sense of more conscious and complex view of it) undestand of it", some people (specially women) get triggered as fuck.

Don't know if this is purelly projection and self-defense of an ego that feels threatened (and it is) or am i lacking humbleness. 

[d0ornokey]

When I started to see people as just human, and just like me, relating to people became much easier. How to make this a permanent state is something I'm working out now 

[remember]

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Serotoninluv Interesting. Never have thought it like that. I wonder then, when we are students in a classroom we "know" that we are students, but we don´t identify with being a student because if then we would feel inferior?

you would miss out on a lot if you would identify as a student in the classroom - it would probably not exactly make you learn so much. by the way what is a student identity?

 

i just flipped open a page of a book, it is about the bodhisattva path, i thought it fits quite well in here. there is a recommendation to first train in the preliminaries which are four reminders:

1. the preciousness of human life and the good fortune to live in an environment where you have access to this teaching
2. the reality of death, which comes up suddenly and without warning
3. the entrappment of karma, is the realization that whatever you do, whatever virtuous or unvirtuous, only entraps you further in the chain of cause and effect
4. the intensity and inevitability of suffering for yourself and all sentient beings (this suffering can also be because of seeing more or seeing less than others)

i guess if you have trained in these awarenesses you already would be on a relative aware level. difficult to be above others with it.

Edited January 6, 2020 by remember

[remember]

1 hour ago, Recursoinominado said:

Also, sometimes (not always), when i speak to people about self-actualization, they can react badly and start to get agressive and attack accusing me of thinking i am better than them. When i speak phrases like "yeah, i used to think like that too but not i have a better (in the sense of more conscious and complex view of it) undestand of it", some people (specially women) get triggered as fuck.

Don't know if this is purelly projection and self-defense of an ego that feels threatened (and it is) or am i lacking humbleness. 

sounds super narcisistic that`s why... guys who talk a lot about how great they are usually are not so much.

[Recursoinominado]

7 hours ago, remember said:

sounds super narcisistic that`s why... guys who talk a lot about how great they are usually are not so much.

The thing is, i am not talking about me being this great enlightened being, i am just pointing out the obvious: "i was in a shitty place my whole life, found some tools (like meditation and yoga) that turned that shit into gold, i noticed you yourself are in a shitty place (full of depression, anxiety and neurotic behaviors), maybe i can show you how to get out of this". This is a basic tamplate of how it usually goes and i try to adapt to each person but people just get stuck in the "fuck you, are you saying that my life isn't perfect? By trying to improve my life, are you implying that my life isn't a divine perfection full of wisdom, love and peace? FUCK YOU, YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ME" 

I don't know, man, in my opinion, people simply don't want to acknowledge how fucked they really are and any kind of self-improvement just rubs this in their faces, they usually prefer to protect their little ego then do any kind of self-actualization.

And the only motive this bugs me is because it is my life purpose to help people develop themselves so i have to figure this out. Maybe i am just missing my niche, the one were people want better lifes for themselves instead of trying to keep their delusions.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

@Recursoinominado How people react to you shouldn’t make you question yourself like that. 
 

You might want to reframe how you address those topics you bring up or relate to the person. You could have a good intention but have it come off in a self righteous way. You have to be subtle and maybe pose questions to make them think. What others choose to do is on them, all you can do is do your part and plant a seed but their motivation comes from witnin.

[Recursoinominado]

4 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

@Recursoinominado How people react to you shouldn’t make you question yourself like that. 
 

You might want to reframe how you address those topics you bring up or relate to the person. You could have a good intention but have it come off in a self righteous way. You have to be subtle and maybe pose questions to make them think. What others choose to do is on them, all you can do is do your part and plant a seed but their motivation comes from witnin.

What I am really searching for is how to approach people, how to seduce them into self-actualization, become a better communicator/teacher without getting people triggered and raising defenses. Usually i do not preach for those who do not want to get preached but I am curious if it is possible to plant that seed you talk about.