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Nivsch

So do we have free will or not?

21 posts in this topic

I read something different every time haha

I understand that the Self has free will.

But what about the self in our everyday language, all our actions and all our decisions during the day - these are under our control?

Or that the only one who can really choose freely is the sub-sub-conscious mind (or god mind) and only he can choose? 

But we are (as human beings) CANT choose anything and not have free will at all? Or we still have?

 

Edited by Nivsch

💊OFF Antidepressants 2020-2023. It takes years because of complicated compensatory changes your body and brain do. 🚫Don't believe doctors say to you its your "disease" back. Just taper slowely enough! 🥝Your body & brain are way more complicated than how western medicine grasps them. Respect them.

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Sometimes it feels like I can choose something and sometimes it doesn't!

How confusing!! :)

 

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We get influences by our environment and at the same time, we also influence our environment. IMO free will depends on where you want to stand in that system(human-environment). But really what does it matter? Would you turn into a vegetable if there were no free will? What would you do differently if you would know the answer?

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@Nivsch Every question you ask is based on imagined dualities.

Ultimate reality cannot be framed in terms of any dualistic statement.

You cannot say, "Reality is like X and not Y." Because reality includes X and Y and transcends both. Both X and Y are imaginary.

Grasp this, so you stop asking endless silly questions.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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This question is not practical. It is not going to help you get better at living your life.

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In the higher, philosophical sense, I don't know. But in practical everyday life this question is quite important.

Quote

But what about the self in our everyday language, all our actions and all our decisions during the day - these are under our control?

Let's take a couple of extreme examples. Alcoholics cannot control themselves, they cannot stop drinking, even if they wanted to after an especially bad hangover. Chronic procrastinators cannot stop procrastinating even if they see how it's ruining their lives.

If you dig deeper you'll find that you have almost no control of what the mind or the body does. You are very mechanical, literally a machine. It's just that most of the things you do are not causing problems so you don't notice. You think you eat, piss, sleep, play video games because you want to with your free will?

The only way you can choose the direction (exercise free will) is through awareness. The alcoholic cannot just stop drinking because the mechanism driving the behavior is all in the subconsciousness (aka the ego). Unless he becomes aware how he is triggered into that behavior and how to intervene, he literally can't stop drinking.

Edited by crab12

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@Leo Gura its weird because people asked about this issue in the forum in the past.

What is silly about the question if we have free will or not? You yourself started talk about it in a video of 1 hour+

Its not that i am not listening to your answer and think about them. I do think seriously on the answers i get from people. Including the answer you gave me now.

In the other hand, i dont think my questions are "silly". Why do you have the forum if not for questions that are all dualities too? So close the forum. You also said that questions are important in the process.

I am conscious enough today to not take it personally. God knows why you chose to answer me like this. You are just a little contradict yourself.

 

 

Edited by Nivsch

💊OFF Antidepressants 2020-2023. It takes years because of complicated compensatory changes your body and brain do. 🚫Don't believe doctors say to you its your "disease" back. Just taper slowely enough! 🥝Your body & brain are way more complicated than how western medicine grasps them. Respect them.

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Just assume that you have free will. It's a good assumption that prevents you from wasting your life.

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12 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Just assume that you have free will. It's a good assumption that prevents you from wasting your life.

Not that i have a choice now. I think people dont really have an answer to this question.

Edited by Nivsch

💊OFF Antidepressants 2020-2023. It takes years because of complicated compensatory changes your body and brain do. 🚫Don't believe doctors say to you its your "disease" back. Just taper slowely enough! 🥝Your body & brain are way more complicated than how western medicine grasps them. Respect them.

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@Nivsch  There is no this and that, there is this and this.

You  are not  in control   of your mind—because  you, as a conscious  agent, are only part of your  mind, living at the mercy of other  parts. You can do what you decide to do—but    you cannot decide what you will decide   to do. 

Of  course, you can  create a framework  in which certain decisions  are more likely than others. But    you cannot know why you were able   to submit to such a framework today when  you weren’t yesterday.

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@Nivsch  When there is no challenge, no question in your perception, there aren't any chains that would bind you, nor anything you could do by yourself, not even yourself. And not even the question. It's quite silly how that works :D 

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Ive discussed this in other posts but here’s the jist: it’s both, and neither simultaneously. Both can be observed in experience. Both are illusions. Both are available experiences which can be observed. Free will is no free will... and the mind will never be satisfied with that conclusion. 

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Just to say that i didnt know the issue was discussed only few days ago. I though the last time was couple of months ago.

Edited by Nivsch

💊OFF Antidepressants 2020-2023. It takes years because of complicated compensatory changes your body and brain do. 🚫Don't believe doctors say to you its your "disease" back. Just taper slowely enough! 🥝Your body & brain are way more complicated than how western medicine grasps them. Respect them.

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I fear we don't have a whole lot. Maybe sometimes you are free to do what you want, within limits. I go through a period of time feeling free, then a synchronicity pops up, and I am startled into thinking my life is governed by fate.


Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.

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6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I am conscious enough today to not take it personally. God knows why you chose to answer me like this. You are just a little contradict yourself.

Maybe you reached your quota of new threads started :D

But seriously, is there a danger you are making your journey too academic? I mean what does it matter about free will? Will your life be any different if you end up getting this answer? 

There's a billion YouTube debates on this, people going round and round in circles with such questions.

Anyway, yeh, don't take Leo's response personally, I don't think he means to belittle you or anything.  I will say this, at least when you start a thread you give some context and explain what you are trying to discuss, rather than others who simply write a thread heading and then write ?????? and expect everyone else to do their work for them, or people that open up a new thread with YouTube clip and that's all. 

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@Nivsch The mind likes to think in opposites and to hold one as true and the opposite as false. For example, if free-will is true then no free-will is false. Most people are attached/identified to free-will, so it can be helpful to see opposite of no-free will is also true. Then one can see inter-connections between the two and it starts to crumble away. All sorts of "sorta free-willish" arises. Then, what the heck does "free-will" even mean? Terms like "free-will", "choice", "chooser", "me" lose their grounding. Then the original question starts off as very important to the person. Whether or not there is free-will is serious business to the person. Yet once it's explored enough, it becomes a silly question. 

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You cannot deny the existence of free will without also denying your identification as a rational human being who deliberates with ideas such as the existence of free will. As long as you have a sense of identity, you cannot escape the reality that you are the one making all your decisions.

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@Bill W I do inner work (mindfulness/yoga/self-love/learning from books/vids) every day!

My questions here are not instead, but in addition to that.

I will try to have my questions more coherent with my internal work. Ok. But there is a way to respond.

I have nothing against Leo and i think i understand the position he come from so i dont get hurted from it.

The thing is that from MY experience + Leo's video + messages from people here i came to conclusion that the free will is not exist in our every day conscious decisions (but exists in the sub-sub sonscious mind - higher self) Still i got confused therefore i wanted to ask it first time by myself most clearly i could. I didn't know the topic was discussed few days ago. 

I feel the answer may influence and help because it can relate to my experience as not controlling at all at my thoghts and strengten it. But as i can see now, the answer is not clear at all.

I know anyway that i just CAN'T control my thoughts and feeling. That what i feel when i have bad months/weeks. If i could control - the bad periods would obviousely be ×100 times shorter...

 

 

Edited by Nivsch

💊OFF Antidepressants 2020-2023. It takes years because of complicated compensatory changes your body and brain do. 🚫Don't believe doctors say to you its your "disease" back. Just taper slowely enough! 🥝Your body & brain are way more complicated than how western medicine grasps them. Respect them.

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10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I know anyway that i just CAN'T control my thoughts and feeling. That what i feel when i have bad months/weeks. If i could control - the bad periods would obviousely be ×100 times shorter...

And even if you could control your thoughts and feeling 100% that still doesnt mean that you have free will.

Leo just pointed out to you that you are stuck in duality based on your posts. Silly and intelligent is also a duality. Dont get stuck again :)

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