Preetom

Mapping Out Leo's Psychedelic Insights Within Vedantic Perspective

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Posted (edited)

Note: Might be a long post. And again it might be helpful for those who are confused as it will present a straightforward conclusion. A claim Leo often makes which is the possibility of having the highest realizations for the first time. But this is simply not true as these things have been systematically mapped out since time immemorial. So hear me out. My guess is most people dont bother to study it or take it into consideration because they think it is traditional dogma and product of ''deluded illiterate people". But if the same message is told in a slightly different twist by a contemporary spiritual teacher or by a 21st century modern, educated man; everyone loses their shit. 😂

Part 1: The mechanism of creation/manifestation

For any form to exist, there must be a trinity of subject-mechanism-objects or knower-knowledge-known. Religiously, it is known as the trinity of soul-god-world. So basically a subject perceives objects and god is the mechanism or principle that makes this perceptual connection possible by holding it all together.

Now in Vedanta, the absolute reality Brahman is prior to this trinity. This trinity is in fact relative and only 'seems' to exist from its own POV. Poetically speaking, This trinity is said to have borrowed existence from Brahman. We will make these fine distinctions here but connect it all together in the end.

Part 2: All of reality, cosmology explained in vedantic perspective!

So we can see that god is the macrocosm and the subject or individual ego is a microcosm of that god. Basically god is the total summation of all individual subjects and objects. Here I am going to explain things in terms of 3 bodies :

1) Gross body (product of food/the external form)

2) Subtle body(the subjective, private aspect that is not shared with other egos aka thoughts, sensations, feelings etc)

3) Causal body ( the unmanifest body which holds everything that is possible for individual ego in seed potential form. In modern terms, the deepest subconscious layers can be thought of as the causal body)

Now just like I as this individual subject have 3 aspects of bodies, similarly god as my macrocosm also has these 3 aspects.

1) Gross god aspect ( It is literally the absolute summation of all visible, external forms..from humans to animals to trees to insentient matter. Literally any form there is, was or can be, it is part of this Gross god. In Vedanta it is called Virat)

2) Subtle god aspect ( it is literally the absolute summation of all subjective feelings, thoughts, sounds, tastes, sensations, smells there are, were and can ever be. This is the psychic or subtle aspect of god)

3) Causal god aspect ( it is literally the absolute summation of all potentiality. In Vedanta, it is called Hiranyagarbha, meaning the highest heaven. This is also known as the universal cosmic mind in its unlimited, pure potential state)

This is the entire cosmology mapped out in Vedanta. Now where is Brahman in all of of this? None of it is Brahman. After total negation, Brahman is discovered as the solitary Reality prior to all of this.

Part 3: Connecting it all together and explaining Leos psychedelic experiences.

Does this ring some bells? Isn't Leo just talking about these aspects of god and cosmic mind through various metaphors and explanation? 

From this individual body-mind to the macrocosm god, there are infinite gradations, POVs, pieces, microcosms. What psychedelic does is that, it takes one from the microcosm of this individual body mind with limited knowledge graph to more and more expansive levels of the macrocosm. It can even ultimately take one to the highest macrocosm god where things like absolute omniscience, absolute will, absolute oneness becomes evidently clear (the places where Leo recently hit). Meditation, yoga and other spiritual practices are also tools that can take one from this individual ego level to more expansive macrocosm ego levels. All shiddhis or paranormal powers are basically manifestations of these higher realms.

Now what does Vedanta says about all this? Once again, none of it is Brahman. That universal cosmic mind is as much non-Brahman as my current individual ego self. So 'I' can travel from microcosm to the macrocosm, to the highest of heavens millions of times and still I will be equally distant from Brahman the Absolute. 

So what does the direct path prescribe? It says that there is no reason or necessity to take the scenic route. Upon right knowledge and contemplation, this entire trinity of soul-god-universe becomes annihilated and Brahman is found to be the solitary Reality. Right here, all communication fails.

So from vedantic perspective, all the 'ultimate' mysteries and insights found through psychedelics or spiritual highs are still inside the dream/Maya. No matter how expansive or oneness one feels, its still a state, just different facets of macrocosm, all of it are non-existent, non-Brahman. 

That's why nowadays all of Leos psychedelic insight videos start with the common theme "by far my greatest breakthrough/deepest trip ever/ its not like anything I've ever had before" - a regular claim he has already made over a dozen times. Hell yeah! The more one gets to infinity depth, it becomes more infinite without end, so this 'traveling' never comes to an end. The more one sees, the more there is to see.

Brahman is the total annihilation of this dream. It is called nirvana or total extinction for this reason.

Part 4: some simple suggestion

1) its okay not to have 100 psychedelic breakthroughs or spiritual highs. No need to feel inferior about that. You are still yourself, one, intimate after 0 or 1000 highs.

2) this psychic traveling, expansiveness, shifts that happen from microcosm to many levels of macrocosm with psychedelics or spiritual practices can be helpful if it shows one that how one is not exclusively this particular ego body mind. This can make the surrendering of individuality easier. 

But this same 'traveling' can backfire and work as a roadblock if one nests into any particular facet of the macrocosm. Basically the ego identity and some god identity both are similar roadblocks if one gets stuck there. One has merely shifted into a more illuminating, fantastic dream and yet to discover the reality of Brahman

3) Instead of being confused with every half baked non duality theories and fads around, make a systematic study and logical scrutiny of this subject. All the absolute-relative conflating tendencies arise from not knowing this subject matter properly. There is probably not a single objection or doubt that hasn't been raised and discussed in this study.

Hope you learned a thing or two reading this post. Good day 🙂

Edited by Preetom

''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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31 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Now what does Vedanta says about all this? Once again, none of it is Brahman. That universal cosmic mind is as much non-Brahman as my current individual ego self. So 'I' can travel from microcosm to the macrocosm, to the highest of heavens millions of times and still I will be equally distant from Brahman the Absolute. 

Yup!

Finally someone who knows what's up around here!

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@Preetom You are not distant from Absolute. You are it. 

Not your ego self. But what YOU really are right now. Yes it is really THAT simple. 

Yes NIRVANA, Conciousness in purest "form" requieres ego death. And by this I mean literal extinction of your entire life universe everything. Feels like death then Miracle happens. 

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@Preetom Brahmin and Maya are identical.

Don't underestimate psychedelics.

Your mapping of my realizations is your own imagination at work.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

@Preetom But..

What about "All is Brahman"?

I'm right now reading Ribhu Gita which goes on and on and on about that everything is Brahman.

Edited by Mikael89

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Preetom Brahmin and Maya are identical.

@Leo Gura

I think you mean Brahman not Brahmin

And no they are not identical. Vedanta can be refined and they can be shown to be different. But that is just down from different philosophies. 

Edited by Garuda

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2 hours ago, Garuda said:

@Leo Gura

I think you mean Brahman not Brahmin

Yes

2 hours ago, Garuda said:

And no they are not identical. Vedanta can be refined and they can be shown to be different. But that is just down from different philosophies. 

All differences are imaginary.

There exists only one thing: consciousness. The end.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Ok, so, the world IS Brahman, in the sense that it is created out of, permeatated by and within Brahman, but Brahman is not the world, because the world can be negated and Brahman is still there, as it's the substratum of all things, so not dependent upon the world for its existence. 

Recap: The world is Brahman, but Brahman is not the world.

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@Anna1 That is wrong. EVERYTHING is Brahman. Your nonduality is incomplete.

If you have 2 things, that is duality!

The distinction between Brahman and world is something Brahman (You) is imagining.

All difference is God's imagination at work. So if you see a difference between things, you can be sure that you created that difference.

It would be wise of you guys to listen to what is being said here.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura Everything IS Brahman, but Brahman isn't everything. If you can negate it, then it isn't pure awareness.

Just like I said about the world, above. Brahman exists without its "relative" reflection. 

Anyways, Vedanta breaks things down. This thread is about Vedantic perspective.

Edit- Geez, do u go back and edit all the time. I'm not changing my post.

Edited by Anna1

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The Vedantic perspective is also imagination. As all perspective or analysis is.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Vedantic perspective is also imagination.

So is your perspective.😂

*I see you edited, again.....hehe

Edited by Anna1

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3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

@Preetom But..

What about "All is Brahman"?

I'm right now reading Ribhu Gita which goes on and on and on about that everything is Brahman.

Okay I'll try to explain this dilemma with 2 classic examples. See if it makes sense.

The duality of nothing-everything is already a concession. "All is Brahman" is a similar statement to "Michael's dream at last night is nothing but his mind". But take a look at your mind. Is last night's dream exclusively your mind? No. Because your same mind can produce infinite amount of other dream worlds. And ultimately that one dream really has no existence at all other than in your mind. It only feels real as long as it is perceived. This is the paradigm lock of all knowledge and perception. It feels real only when it is happening now.

Have you noticed that whatever happening right now feels most real? But where is this sense of reality coming from? This sense of reality is not actually coming from things. These current same thoughts and forms will lose significance and reality when you forget about them. If you are not seeing the sun, then the reality of sun is very dim for you now. So no 'thing' exclusively has reality. That sense of reality actually comes from you the Brahman.

Vedanta scrupulously maintains this discriminating view so that no form can ever exclusively claim ownership of absolute reality.

Why not saying that both all and brahman are real? No they are not both real. To illustrate this there is the example of clay and clay pots.

A clay pot is in and through nothing but clay. Clay can exist without clay pot but clay pot cant exist without clay. So its 'potness' is really only a self fulfilling unreal superimposition. Now if you strictly say "the clay pot is clay" that will be a true statement just like the statement "all is brahman".

But you see it already concedes this pot as something real and distinct and then made connection with clay. Whereas in reality the clay remains same whether its a pot or not (in the context of this metaphor). The very idea of pot, world, all is already a concession and in that case they are really nothing but products of Brahman 

These are all teaching pointers and further discussion actually only breaks down language and the teaching without any outcome.

So as Anna has pointed out the 'all' is like a mere shadow product of Brahman. In the same way even concepts like existence, consciousness, bliss etc are nothing but superimposed definitions on Brahman. They are helpful teaching pointers but there is nothing one can exclusively grasp and ascribe it as Brahman.

This is illuminated in a Bhagavad gita verse where Krishna tells Arjuna "the entire universe is sustained with merely a fraction of my being"

Similarly all real things in universe, all potentials and all 'unreal' things are nothing but Brahman. But Brahman is not exclusively any of them.


''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Anna1 That is wrong. EVERYTHING is Brahman. Your nonduality is incomplete.

If you have 2 things, that is duality!

The distinction between Brahman and world is something Brahman (You) is imagining.

All difference is God's imagination at work. So if you see a difference between things, you can be sure that you created that difference.

It would be wise of you guys to listen to what is being said here.

I agree with Anna (I agree with Advaita Vedanta).

"The world is Brahman, but Brahman is not the world." just means that Brahman isn't limited to the world.

The drawing in the sand is Brahman.

If you erase the drawing, is Brahman gone and dead then? No.

So, the drawing is Brahman. But Brahman isn't (limited to) the drawing.

3578495-drawings-in-the-sand-dunes-in-the-desert.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I agree with Anna (I agree with Advaita Vedanta).

"The world is Brahman, but Brahman is not the world." just means that Brahman isn't limited to the world.

The drawing in the sand is Brahman.

If you erase the drawing, is Brahman gone and dead then? No.

So, the drawing is Brahman. But Brahman isn't (limited to) the drawing.

3578495-drawings-in-the-sand-dunes-in-the-desert.jpg

Yes, beautiful illustration, @Mikael89

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Posted (edited)

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Vedantic perspective is also imagination. As all perspective or analysis is.

 

48 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

So is your perspective.😂

*I see you edited, again.....hehe

The thing is we are now only destroying the teaching pointers.

Its like we were supposed to go to a city. At the middle of the road we see a signpost pointing instructions to reach that city. Now instead of taking notes, we break and destroy the signpost, start a campfire with it, nesting there and singing kumbabya thinking we have accomplished a great feat and there is no city to go to 😂

I know this metaphor is crude compared to the directness of the real thing. But compared to the real thing, every metaphor is crude haha so that was a fun thought

The real knower of brahman aka the enlightened one has no confusion about Brahman. He IS brahman so for him there is absolutely no misconception about what brahman is or is not. For him the Vedas(knowledge) have become Avedas(ignorance) and all the brahman talk is redundant and unnecessary.

But before that, the teaching scrupulously maintains its position and perspective to act as a good signpost. This distinction is absolutely crucial for realization.

Edited by Preetom

''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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