Preetom

Mapping Out Leo's Psychedelic Insights Within Vedantic Perspective

188 posts in this topic

@Nahm you experience it as God when you Awaken.

There is no inllytened1 that is experiencing it because inlytened1 is the wave not the ocean.

You must BECOME the ocean or Brahman to become directly aware of it.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's back up a bit.

You can become conscious that the wave is both not the ocean and the ocean simultaneously.  That is Oneness.

Oneness divides itself so that distinctions may be made.  And you can view the wave as separate from the ocean.  But simultaneously it is still the ocean.

Oneness is an Absolute that you can become directly conscious of when awakening

What is being missed here is that the wave or the world created by brahman - when it negatives itself it collapses back into itself - collapses back into Brahman.  Therefore it always was Brahman even as it was being only world (or the wave if you use the wave/ocean analogy which is a good one)  

The Vendantic perspective seems to not close the Oneness gap in some weird way because when Brahman creates the world it then splits it off as something separate that now is no longer Brahman.   

Again becoming the Absolute will reveal that all is One so the the world, while separate is still Brahman and upon collapse will extract itself from Brahman leaving only Brahman.

It is splitting hairs but its an important realization to make.  Because Oneness is always Oneness even while it is dividing itself.

Brahman doesn't create anything. Isvara, or Brahma creates.

There is never a time when something isn't Brahman. Everything is Brahman.

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

What about scrutinizing your direct experience, rather than accepting the words of another, which you yourself are saying is not real? Are you not simply establishing that the teaching you are following is not real?

That part is included in the teaching. 

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Nahm you experience it as God when you Awaken.

There is no inllytened1 that is experiencing it because inlytened1 is the wave not the ocean.

You must BECOME the ocean or Brahman to become directly aware of it.

You already are Brahman.

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Posted (edited)

@Mikael89 yes, but i'm not aware i'm Brahman until I awaken.   And that's not what Anna1 was saying.  She is saying the world was created by Brahman and so Brahman is the world but the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense, but it is also still Brahman simultaneously.  It is the world on TOP of Brahman.  Form is on top of formlessness, co-opting formlessness.  When it collapses it is only formlessness or Brahman.

The Vendantic perspective doesn't acknowledge this - seemingly -

And you can become direclty conscious of this AS GOd as an Absolute.

 

There is no "leo's teachings" or Vedantic Teachings"  it Just IS.

 

Edited by Inliytened1

We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Okay I don't understand the first sentence.

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I’ve never experience unreal.  What was unreal like, experientially?  Or is that a duality / belief?

How are you “aware of an object”? Do you mean you are aware of seeing, hearing, etc?   

Can you explain your direct experience of an object, which is unreal?

By being aware of an object, I mean noticing any experience whatsoever. And really speaking, one cannot 'experience' the unreal because unreal is non-existent. If it was really real and substantial, then it would be experienced, scrutinized. Upon scrutiny the unreal becomes non existent and on the other hand upon scrutiny Consciousness starts being more prominent and solid.

The point of vedantic discrimination is to appreciate a very important distinction. We tend to impress 'reality' upon objects or experiences. Discrimination shows that it's not the 'thing' that has reality, but its Brahman/existence which is the sole reality. To correct this core flaw, discrimination is absolutely essential.

If you've realized Brahman, in other words if the mode of knowing/experiencing things has evaporated as non existent, then you neither need discrimination nor more brahman talks. Because at that point, the thing that was discriminating is out of the system as well.

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Also what is the experience of “an object aware of I” ? 

Exactly. You are supposed to intuitively see what is the source of the sense of reality, not analyzing and breaking down the grammar of the question.

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Guys let's back up a bit.

You can become conscious that the wave is both not the ocean and the ocean simultaneously.  That is Oneness.

Oneness divides itself so that distinctions may be made.  And you can view the wave as separate from the ocean.  But simultaneously it is still the ocean.

Oneness is an Absolute that you can become directly conscious of when awakening

What is being missed here is that the wave or the world created by brahman - when it negatives itself it collapses back into itself - collapses back into Brahman.  Therefore it always was Brahman even as it was being only world (or the wave if you use the wave/ocean analogy which is a good one)  

The Vendantic perspective seems to not close the Oneness gap in some weird way because when Brahman creates the world it then splits it off as something separate that now is no longer Brahman.   

Again becoming the Absolute will reveal that all is One so the the world, while separate is still Brahman and upon collapse will extract itself from Brahman leaving only Brahman.

It is splitting hairs but its an important realization to make.  Because Oneness is always Oneness even while it is dividing itself.

 The wave/ocean is a poor analogy to appreciate the distinction between real and unreal. A more suitable analogy is to see the wave/ocean as unreal and the water as real.

Whether its a wave or ocean or spray or steam, the reality is H2O


''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Nahm you experience it as God when you Awaken.

There is no inllytened1 that is experiencing it because inlytened1 is the wave not the ocean.

You must BECOME the ocean or Brahman to become directly aware of it.

Can you say anything at all about your experience of the division of Oneness?

 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Mikael89 yes, but i'm not aware i'm Brahman until I awaken.   And that's not what Anna1 was saying.  She is saying the world was created by Brahman and so Brahman is the world but the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense, but it is also still Brahman simultaneously.  It is the world on TOP of Brahman.  Form is on top of formlessness, co-opting formlessness.  When it collapses it is only formlessness or Brahman.

The Vendantic perspective doesn't acknowledge this - seemingly -

No she definitely isn't saying that the world is created by Brahman.

Advaita Vedanta covers everything perfectly. If it seems to not cover something, then you just haven't understood it properly.

And btw, splitting hairs is a good thing, it's precise. 

A scientist wants his instruments to be precise, sharp, and powerful.

Edited by Mikael89

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6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

That part is included in the teaching.

Right, the teaching which you are saying is “not real” though. Can you explain this experience of unreal?

 

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense,

In what specific sense have experienced this division of Oneness?


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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@Preetom You keep deflecting onto me though. You’re claiming this unreal, and this non existence. I’m simply asking if you experienced these, and if so, to share the experience. I’ve not experienced unreal nor non existence, so it’s just interesting to hear someone say this. 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

And btw, splitting hairs is a good thing, it's precise. 

Absolutely. 🙏🏻


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Mikael89 yes, but i'm not aware i'm Brahman until I awaken.   And that's not what Anna1 was saying.  She is saying the world was created by Brahman and so Brahman is the world but the world isn't Brahman.  Yes that's true in one sense, but it is also still Brahman simultaneously.  It is the world on TOP of Brahman.  Form is on top of formlessness, co-opting formlessness.  When it collapses it is only formlessness or Brahman.

The Vendantic perspective doesn't acknowledge this - seemingly -

And you can become direclty conscious of this AS GOd as an Absolute.

There is no "leo's teachings" or Vedantic Teachings"  it Just IS.

Anna1 never said the world was created by Brahman. Anyone who understands vedanta would make no such claim.

You are talking about panpsychism here where God and it's creation are one and the same thing. But Vedanta doesn't teach that doctrine.

That's why it is being said over and over again not jump to conclusions without understanding these fine distinctions. Vedanta is all about splitting hairs and I hope you can appreciate the bright side of it, considering how easily things can be misunderstood and corrupted. There is probably not a single doubt or objection that hasn't been raised and resolved in Vedanta and it encourages such reasoning and questioning, in fact it's 2nd vital part of the 3 step process

Edited by Preetom

''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Right, the teaching which you are saying is “not real” though. Can you explain this experience of unreal?

It's a unreal teaching, yes. It's a thorn to remove a thorn, and then you throw away both thorns.

Experience of unreal: my life, and the entire universe.

Edited by Mikael89

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4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Anna1 never said the world was created by Brahman. Anyone who understands vedanta would make no such claim.

You are talking about panpsychism here where God and it's creation are one and the same thing. But Vedanta doesn't teach that doctrine.

That's why it is being said over and over again not jump to conclusions without understanding these fine distinctions. Vedanta is all about splitting hairs and I hope you can appreciate the bright side of it, considering how easily things can be misunderstood and corrupted. There is probably not a single doubt or objection that hasn't been raised and resolved in Vedanta and it encourages such reasoning and questioning, in fact it's 2nd vital part of the 3 step process

😍

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@Mikael89 Your life and the entiire universe is not separate from consciousness unless you view as separate.

It's all consciousness.  When you dissolve the form of consciousness you only have the formlessness.  All is contained in ONE.  The form is split but one simulatenously.

You have to awaken to understand this. 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Just now, Inliytened1 said:

@Mikael89 Your life and the entiire universe is not separate from consciousness unless you view as separate.

It's all consciousness.  When you dissolve the form of consciousness you only have the formlessness.  All is contained in ONE.  The form is split but one simulatenously.

You have to awaken to understand this. 

It's Consciousness, yes.

But where is my life when I die and where is the universe after it dies? They are poof gone. And what will remain? Consciousness.

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On 6/23/2019 at 7:52 PM, Anna1 said:

 

Ok, so, the world IS Brahman, in the sense that it is created out of, permeatated by and within Brahman, but Brahman is not the world, because the world can be negated and Brahman is still there, as it's the substratum of all things, so not dependent upon the world for its existence. 

Recap: The world is Brahman, but Brahman is not the world.

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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OK i realized i had it backwards.

But even so, Brahman is still is the world too...the world is consciousness in the form of form.

It's all One thing.

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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@Inliytened1 No. Like we have said.. this stuff is precise.

She said: "created out of Brahman"

She didn't say Brahman is the creator.

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9 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Preetom You keep deflecting onto me though. You’re claiming this unreal, and this non existence. I’m simply asking if you experienced these, and if so, to share the experience. I’ve not experienced unreal nor non existence, so it’s just interesting to hear someone say this. 

I am not deflecting to you or anyone, neither to myself. Sorry if it seemed like that. I am merely trying to explain the teaching here.

You are misunderstanding my point here. Unreality/non-existence/maya is not a thing or experience floating around somewhere which we can hunt and find one day and then write a double PhD thesis on it. In vedanta it is said that don't try to prove the existence of Maya, rather scrutinize Maya and see it's unreality or non-existence.

The flaw is in the lens, the way of seeing. The dilemma is that we impose reality on the unreal(things, experiences) and thus miss the real. The trinity of person-god-world which is unreal seems real to us, while the only reality Brahman seems absent and non-existent and sounds woo woo.

 


''Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather''

- Bill Hicks

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@Mikael89 It's not accurate to say that Brahman is not the world, and that's all there is.

it can be seen as One.  it IS ONE when you become it.  So any disctinctions made are relative.

The Absolute will reveal all is One.

If Anna1 agrees with this then we are all arguing about the same thing really!

And I consider her on expert on this teaching from knowing her posts.


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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