winterknight

I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

4,450 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When psycho-analysis allows you to contact machine elves and communicate with them through multiple dimensions of  symbolism and telepathy, or to get direct downloads from the mind of God, or to pull demonic spirits out of a patient's body, then let's talk.

I heard there’s another way to get “direct downloads from the mind of God”...

... through Torahnts

(okay I’ll admit that joke was dry af lol)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement one: 

psychoanalysis is not in the same league as psychedelics. Anything constructed by humans is not enough to solve the fundamental question of “how am I not a human” 

statement 2: 

symbols is not about language and words. Symbols are Reality itself, it works by symbolising absolute infinity into distinctions. 

Statement 3 

“all” “exists” “real-ly” 

Statement 4 

all finite beings are a ratio of infinite being, until you identify as both ego and absolute infinity then you can’t know absolute infinity 

statement 5

any form of being is truth, by self -evident logic of it existing and “a thing” in what ever way, shape or form you wish to address it in. 

Statement 6 

False equivalency must be true because of the nature of truth. The greatest unity is love, this is what I have chosen to be the highest form of truth. By this logic any form of equanimity is untrue. Truth is objectively true. And that truth is love, the highest  truth. 

Statement 7 

absolute self love is a higher love than absolute love. 

Statement 8 

True being is meta in all its forms. Because absolute infinity is the truth at all times. 

Edit: I wrote it the wrong way round, psycho analysis is not in the same league as psychedelics. 

 

Edited by Aakash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

LOL

You know not what you speak.

When psycho-analysis allows you to contact machine elves and communicate with them through multiple dimensions of  symbolism and telepathy, or to get direct downloads from the mind of God, or to pull demonic spirits out of a patient's body, then let's talk. Playing violins is kindergarten stuff.

You do not understand how psychedelics work.

You do not even know what symbols truly are until you do some heavy tripping.

To say that psychedelics are a "just a chemical" is a silly as saying that therapy is just a chemical. Everything is chemicals by that logic, including all symbols and your therapist. That therapist is just a soup of chemicals. This sort of selective, reductionist logic is a telltale sign of self-bias.

I never said therapy doesn't work. Of course it works. But psychedelics work 1000x faster.

No, not everything is a chemical by that logic. 

Basically you are importing your dream-like psychedelic “insights” into objective reality., taking them as true in a philosophically naive way. I’ve talked to entities via psychedelics too. But I don’t confuse that with truths in consensus reality. As you admit, you can talk to machine elves but can’t play the violin, which is such child’s play that you can’t do it. 

 That should tell you something about the limitations of machine elves.

Why not go get a year of 4x/week psychoanalysis from a top-notch analyst and come back and talk about how trivial it was compared to tripping?


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to get involved between your debate. 

But there is a deep irony here, machine elves are “supposedly” more spiritually developed than human beings. 

Irony 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Basically you are importing your dream-like psychedelic “insights” into objective reality., 

facepalm-kain-678x381px.jpg?zoom=2&fit=6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, winterknight said:

Basically you are importing your dream-like psychedelic “insights” into objective reality

What you call objective reality is nothing but a chemical state.

A few changes in chemicals and you would not know what a violin is.

"Objective reality" is the dream.

Quote

Why not go get a year of 4x/week psychoanalysis from a top-notch analyst

1) Time

2) Cost

3) Why would I go through a middleman who doesn't even know he is God, when I can commune directly with God? There is nothing a therapist will tell me that God won't.

You might as well be telling me to go to Catholic confessional.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Leo Gura It's a type of deep surrender or devotion experience. The psyche only allows it to happen if there is someone to literally talk to and surrender to. The love that arises in the letting go of old things you never knew were blocking you is incredible.

When I was a kid I started to develop what I later decided was OCD, but it was mostly targeting my biggest fears, embarrassments or my religion. Most of my life was spent with a compulsion to keep myself pure. My parents had extraordinarily high moral standards about how you should treat other people. I got compulsions to accept the devil into my soul, voices out of nowhere that drove me into deep depression. I got lots of compulsions to confess things to people, that was maddening. One particular one made me literally sick for a week before I told my mom. 

Before I had an awakening a few months ago, voice from outside myself came back, all were tied to repression. Directly before they got stronger and stronger. I realized that I was very impure in spirit, I saw all my repression. I saw for the first time the Devil as an integral part of God in nonduality. I channeled confessions to the other member who helped me in the journal section. I never intended to confess anything to him, I thought he would help me let go of my first mystical experience because I thought I was deluding myself. Then I thought he would help me write a book. But I started channeling confessions, I realized that I was impure in spirit, I saw that my ego believed I was good and it was false. My love for the other member and for existence itself turned it into an experience that was absent of effort. Hashing out painful stupid details of my life was thrilling. 

The key is, that you cannot "see" yourself like another can. You also cannot experience the surrender of confession unless there is someone who appears to listen. Sure it's just God, but as surely as we exist on this forum, God exists outside of you, here to assist you and help you see and experience God's love. We raise each other up in the mutual love and understanding that we are One. Have you experienced all facets of God and the ways in which he awakens himself? 

 

Edited by mandyjw

My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mandyjw In my experience, it's not about confession to someone else, but a full surrender and confession to yourself. And of course someone else can greatly help you with that. Partly because, as you rightly said, they might have a perspective that you can not see. It's like talking to a very good friend and learning something about yourself during the conversation, I have that all the time and it's really beautiful :) But to project these kinds of experiences onto the person and say it's necessary for someone to listen is a tricky game of the mind. To circle that back to the discussion: talking, listening, opening up - all that has its place and is amazing to explore perspectives to find out things about oneself and surrender them openly. But what some here who try to downplay psychedelics don't understand yet is that they can get you beyond all symbolism and perspectives, to the source of all of that. That can happen through work with someone else, but only when it's dedicated to that end - I repeat, A.H. Almaas seems to me the one who works exactly in that way.

@winterknight It seems to me just because you have a certain realization about reality you locked yourself into some opinions about the path. What you're saying sounds highly biased and from what I've read there's not even a bit of open mindedness. Could you ever accept that you might be wrong about something? Because when it comes to psychedelics, you clearly haven't gone that far, not even as far as I have and I consider myself at the beginning of my journey. You should look into maps.org to see even the scientifically acknowledged power of those substances. Therapists work with them because they clear things a therapist needs years to do if he can manage at all. It's all publicly available, you should inform yourself with the latest discoveries.

I still will try out the therapy, because I think it might be very helpful. This is not a black white discussion, but you seem to have something in you strongly trying to downplay psychedelics. Please don't forget to be humble and open minded, no matter your degree of realization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

@mandyjw  But what some here who try to downplay psychedelics don't understand yet is that they can get you beyond all symbolism and perspectives, to the source of all of that. That can happen through work with someone else, but only when it's dedicated to that end - I repeat, A.H. Almaas seems to me the one who works exactly in that way.

But we come down off them and live in a world made up of symbols and perspectives. Integration is part of awakening, integration with the appearances of the world. What does it say when we are willing to submit and give ourselves fully to a substance, but not to another person? Which possibility is more terrifying? Which turns our stomach more?  


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

But we come down off them and live in a world made up of symbols and perspectives. Integration is part of awakening, integration with the appearances of the world. What does it say when we are willing to submit and give ourselves fully to a substance, but not to another person? Which possibility is more terrifying? Which turns our stomach more?  

You're absolutely right :) Integration is even one of the most important aspects, at least to me. Again, this is not a black or white discussion, no one said just because you see the power in psychedelics, you don't see the power in giving yourself to a person fully. I find that highly interesting and honestly want to work on opening up more on a human level, that's why I took @kieranperez advice seriously and am now in the process of getting into therapy. I'm working on that on a social level as well. That does not negate any of the things I said though. So we're actually on the same page here I think. Why not acknowledge both? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@peanutspathtotruth For sure, both need to be acknowledged, and there's no need for a war between the two. Although the thing about war is, it can never go on forever and then everyone has to refocus their efforts to build a better world in peace.


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@peanutspathtotruth Although the thing about war is, it can never go on forever and then everyone has to refocus their efforts to build a better world in peace.

Sounds like a good time to do so ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the violon teaching argument good though

If you could download knowledge and have the best teacher teach you directly that means you should be able to play the violon after geting it taught on psychedelics no ?

And then if no, why would it be different for spiritual teaching ? why would that be "transfered" to the "sober reality" and violon teaching would not be possible ? (which you said is kindergarten stuff)

Either both should be possible or none (not spiritual advancement neither) no ?

@Leo Gura @Serotoninluv

Edited by Jordan94

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What you call objective reality is nothing but a chemical state.

A few changes in chemicals and you would not know what a violin is.

"Objective reality" is the dream.

1) Time

2) Cost

3) Why would I go through a middleman who doesn't even know he is God, when I can commune directly with God? There is nothing a therapist will tell me that God won't.

You might as well be telling me to go to Catholic confessional.

If objective reality is but a chemical state, then why is it that the amazing ultimate psychedelic teacher by which you know the entire universe and the workings of God can’t do the simplest little thing like teach you to play the violin? You can’t have it both ways, calling objective reality a nothing and also claiming that psychedelics are the best way to liberate the mind emotionally (a claim about the objective), “but don’t hold me to any standards of proof or demonstration because there is no objective world.” 

And if objective reality is a dream, then there are no possible truths about it, then certainly all the talk about knowing how God works is nothing more than incoherent dream words... that certainly must follow, since language is part of the dream.

As far as why you would do analysis, the answer is obviously I’m suggesting you have zero idea what analysis will do, either theoretically or practically, and therefore no basis of comparison with psychedelics, and yet you seem willing to declaim quite liberally about them... 

So if you want to do that, why not get the experience and see for yourself?

3 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

@mandyjw

@winterknight It seems to me just because you have a certain realization about reality you locked yourself into some opinions about the path. What you're saying sounds highly biased and from what I've read there's not even a bit of open mindedness. Could you ever accept that you might be wrong about something? Because when it comes to psychedelics, you clearly haven't gone that far, not even as far as I have and I consider myself at the beginning of my journey. You should look into maps.org to see even the scientifically acknowledged power of those substances. Therapists work with them because they clear things a therapist needs years to do if he can manage at all. It's all publicly available, you should inform yourself with the latest discoveries.

I still will try out the therapy, because I think it might be very helpful. This is not a black white discussion, but you seem to have something in you strongly trying to downplay psychedelics. Please don't forget to be humble and open minded, no matter your degree of realization.

If you talk to the top psychedelics researchers in the world, none of them would put forth the absurd position that psychedelics are a total replacement for therapy. It’s truly a dumb suggestion.

Edited by winterknight

Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jordan94 Consider directness and efficiency.

Imagine going to a therapy session with a therapist who speaks French. You speak about your experience in English and someone translates to Chinese, the Chinese person translates to Russian, the Russian person translates to the French psychologist. The French psychologist analyzes this information and has a suggestion. Her suggestion is translated through Russian, Chinese and then English to you. You don’t quite understand this suggestion and would like more clarity. So you ask for clarity via the Chinese and Russian translators. . .

Obviously, this therapy would be highly inefficient. It would take forever to make progress. It would be much more efficient to work directly with an English speaking therapist. What took years to accomplish with the translators could be accomplished in one or two sessions with the English psychologist. . . We can get even more direct. You directly. Speaking with an English therapist actually involves translations and filters. When used properly, psychedelics are more direct. It is You directly. That is why years of therapy progress can be made in hours or days with psychedelic therapy. Even clinical trials are showing this.  

I’m not saying interacting with others has no value. It does have value. Yet there is a more direct method that is more efficient and faster for many issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, winterknight said:

If you talk to the top psychedelics researchers in the world, very few if any of them would put forth the absurd position that psychedelics are a total replacement for therapy. It’s truly a dumb suggestion.

Of course not. For some people, therapists can be useful in helping to integrate psychedelic realizations. As psychedelic therapy becomes mainstream, more psychologists will be trained and specialized for psychedelic therapy and increase their usefulness.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Of course not. Therapists have been shown to be useful in helping patients integrate psychedelic realizations. 

Yes. So when there are suggestions that psychedelics are 1000x more effective than therapy, etc., it shows a misunderstanding of the what these two activities are to each other.


Website/book/one-on-one spiritual guidance: Sifting to the Truth: A New Map to the Self

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes. So when there are suggestions that psychedelics are 1000x more effective than therapy, etc., it shows a misunderstanding of the what these two activities are to each other.

I don’t think psychedelic therapy will be psychedelics + traditional therapy/analysis. I think psychologists will need a lot of new training to adapt. 

At a population level, it’s not as simple as take a psychedelic and fix yourself. There is more to it and I think support and guidance through inter-personal relations can play an important role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saying but I've been to 12 therapists in my life and I've gotten as much gains from microdosing 1 month as I did from 2 years of therapy 

I have some social anxiety so it i think it stunted by progress with therapy half the time. I also dont think I got psychoanalytic therapy so. But some of them were quite experienced 

They were both useful for me, and I'm continuing both. 

 

Edited by d0ornokey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.