I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Monkey-man]

@winterknight does God speak to you? 

[thesmileyone]

3 hours ago, winterknight said:

It's like a modern rehash of age-old Hindu and Buddhist theories, but not nearly as good. Anyway, all metaphysical theories are wrong.

Is Buddhism wrong?

Are the 10 fetters wrong?

Buddhism and the 10 fetters seem to extend far beyond nonduality and explaining that enlightenment = formlessness (ie that that is beyond the mind) nonduality is only a combination of the first 4 fetters.

[winterknight]

6 minutes ago, thesmileyone said:

Is Buddhism wrong?

Are the 10 fetters wrong?

Buddhism and the 10 fetters seem to extend far beyond nonduality and explaining that enlightenment = formlessness (ie that that is beyond the mind) nonduality is only a combination of the first 4 fetters.

Well, they're all useful for seekers, but they're not absolute truth. No, nonduality is not a combination of the first four fetters. All 10 fetters are about purifying the mind to purge it of the ignorance that prevents the seeing of the nondual truth.

[Zetxil]

@winterknight

What questions do you have left to ask/find answers to?

[winterknight]

14 hours ago, Zetxil said:

@winterknight

What questions do you have left to ask/find answers to?

I don’t answer questions about my experience because the answers are always misleading. But if you have any questions about your path, feel free.

Edited March 27, 2019 by winterknight

[Arhattobe]

I normally don’t comment on this thread. Not my place, but this is false. 

https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pdfs/The_Life_of_the_Buddha.pdf

Its quite clear the dropping of the first fetter is non duality, and that the Buddha entered non duality in the very beginning of his 6 year journey. Just read his biography. 

Non duality = Stream Entry 

Liberation = Arhatship

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

Well, they're all useful for seekers, but they're not absolute truth. No, nonduality is not a combination of the first four fetters. All 10 fetters are about purifying the mind to purge it of the ignorance that prevents the seeing of the nondual truth.

Another piece of evidence is a sutta. In which one of the buddhas disciples says I am a non returner I have abolished greed and sensual desire. Yet from time to time they may still arise. Paraphrasing a bit.

The buddhas response is basically, that you have not. The capacity for greed. Even for a nanosecond. As subtle and as rare as it may be. Means you are far from eradicating it from your system.

Most non dual teachers. If they have an ounce of truth in them. Clearly state things still arise for them. They just don’t identify with them.

Thus it’s quite clear they have only shed the identity view.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Arhattobe

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

I normally don’t comment on this thread. Not my place, but this is false. 

https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pdfs/The_Life_of_the_Buddha.pdf

Its quite clear the dropping of the first fetter is non duality, and that the Buddha entered non duality in the very beginning of his 6 year journey. Just read his biography. 

Non duality = Stream Entry 

Liberation = Arhatship

Another piece of evidence is a sutta. In which one of the buddhas disciples says I am a non returner I have abolished greed and sensual desire. Yet from time to time they may still arise. Paraphrasing a bit.

The buddhas response is basically, that you have not. The capacity for greed. Even for a nanosecond. As subtle and as rare as it may be. Means you are far from eradicating it from your system.

Most non dual teachers. If they have an ounce of truth in them. Clearly state things still arise for them. They just don’t identify with them.

Thus it’s quite clear they have only shed the identity view.

Well clearly we mean something very different by nonduality, then. 

The nonduality I am talking about is the recognition of the falsity of the idea that "I am the body and mind." If that is accomplished, then there is no more question about greed arising, etc. To whom is the greed arising? Who is concerned about sensual desire? Who is there to do anything about these things? The nonduality I am talking about eliminates the notion of oneself as the doer and enjoyer of things.

After that recognition, greed is not greed, and sensual desire is not sensual desire. These are categories that are no longer taken to be true.

Merely knowing this in some intellectual sense is clearly not enough, and perhaps that's what the first fetter refers to -- that intellectual "right view." But if it referred to the deeper realization I am talking about, all the rest of the fetters would be irrelevant and beside the point. So clearly that cannot be the case.

Edited March 27, 2019 by winterknight

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Arhattobe said:

I normally don’t comment on this thread. Not my place, but this is false. 

https://what-buddha-said.net/library/pdfs/The_Life_of_the_Buddha.pdf

Its quite clear the dropping of the first fetter is non duality, and that the Buddha entered non duality in the very beginning of his 6 year journey. Just read his biography.

And I just saw this quote in your cite: 

"Although a noble disciple may have abandoned the five more immediate fetters...still his conceit 'I am,' desire 'I am,' underlying tendency 'I am,' with respected to the five aggregates affected by clinging remains as yet unabolished."

Clearly if the first fetter were nonduality in my sense this could not be the case.

[purerogue]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

And I just saw this quote in your cite: 

"Although a noble disciple may have abandoned the five more immediate fetters...still his conceit 'I am,' desire 'I am,' underlying tendency 'I am,' with respected to the five aggregates affected by clinging remains as yet unabolished."

Clearly if the first fetter were nonduality in my sense this could not be the case.

Exactly what I thought, someone who has not perfected , but has at least  got far enough would  not make such claims, someone who has only changed his ego and still is identified as mind would. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by purerogue

[Arhattobe]

We are not talking about different things. The dropping of the identity view is the first fetter. That’s Theravada Buddhism 101. Everything else you said is frankly nonesense.

I have been in non duality for 4-5 years. Not talking about an intellectual understanding. 

I have a lot of latent tendencies l that affect my behaviour. Negative ones. What Hindus calls vasanas. Buddhists call asanas.

 So do you, and so does every teacher. Maharaj smoked, Alan Watts drank, Maharishi mahesh yogi and numerous others were accused of sexual harassment and assault. 

These tendencies don’t magically disappear because you move beyond the identity. That’s where real growth starts actually. If you get stuck there it’s actually quite sad.

Arhatship or dropping he ten fetters has to do with the complete eradication of all negative tendencies. Even the ability to hold them.

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

And I just saw this quote in your cite: 

"Although a noble disciple may have abandoned the five more immediate fetters...still his conceit 'I am,' desire 'I am,' underlying tendency 'I am,' with respected to the five aggregates affected by clinging remains as yet unabolished."

Clearly if the first fetter were nonduality in my sense this could not be the case.

That’s completely false. You greatly exgaerate what non duality is, and severely underestimate your subconscious tendencies. Arrogance is extreme in most in non duality. They don’t think it’s arrogance but it exists by the bundle.

You can’t see how deep the rabbit hole goes. 

 

In regards to what I cited. Read the part about the Buddha and alarma kalarma. His first teacher. Who got him to non duality. No something else to simply reaffirm your perspective.

[Jkris]

@winterknight @winterknightMy question is he is saying that an arrahat is supposed to be completely  free with out any traces of desires lust hatred etc sounds something like vasana kshyam.

So after SR one is completely free from them with out appearing ? Or it takes time to completely Purge the old bodily mental tendancies ?

[winterknight]

12 minutes ago, purerogue said:

Exactly what I thought, someone who has not perfected , but has at least  got far enough would  not make such claims, someone who has only changed his ego and still is identified as mind would. 

Exactly.

2 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

We are not talking about different things. The dropping of the identity view is the first fetter. That’s Theravada Buddhism 101. Everything else you said is frankly nonesense.

No, you have confused a purely intellectual realization of non-duality with the real thing.

[winterknight]

9 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@winterknight @winterknightMy question is he is saying that an arrahat is supposed to be completely  free with out any traces of desires lust hatred etc sounds something like vasana kshyam.

So after SR one is completely free from them with out appearing ? Or it takes time to completely Purge the old bodily mental tendancies ?

Vasana kshya is a notion which is purely from the 'relative' or 'ignorant' standpoint. It has nothing to do with enlightenment per se, though it might be interesting to talk about and think about.

Only if we accept the existence of the body-mind do vasanas matter, and the jnani no longer identifies with the body-mind which is subject to this karmic progression. But sure, if in certain contexts we speak of these then we can talk about vasana kshaya.

Edited March 27, 2019 by winterknight

[Arhattobe]

@winterknight You are just not honest with yourself. 

 

[mandyjw]

Do you find yourself absolutely overjoyed with little things? 

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@winterknight You are just not honest with yourself. 

The ego clings to the idea of the total elimination of vasanas as a long, never-ending quest to protect itself from simply looking and finding itself gone.

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Do you find yourself absolutely overjoyed with little things? 

Sometimes 

[Arhattobe]

@winterknight The ego also has escapist tendencies and thinks it knows everything. 

You’ve gone beyond ego identification. It’s still there affecting every word and thought though. 

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, Jkris said:

@winterknight It will be helpful if you can share your insights about purification of mind aka vasana kshaya.How to do that ? Example addiction impatience anger etc

Yes, my views on that are three-fold.

First, you need a good intellectual framework to resolve your doubts. You can get that through satsang and reading scripture and good books.

Second, you need to be honest about what you want, which is usually a process. I often recommend psychoanalysis (or psychoanalytic psychotherapy) and a cycle of trying things, expressing your feelings about them, adjusting your notions of what you desire, and trying other things. That is a way of iteratively becoming more honest about your desires.

Though the ultimate purification is from self-inquiry and surrender. These earlier steps simply prepare your mind for that. The mind just needs to be pure enough, not perfectly pure.

Edited March 27, 2019 by winterknight

[Jkris]

@winterknight Thank you

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

@winterknight The ego also has escapist tendencies and thinks it knows everything. 

You’ve gone beyond ego identification. It’s still there affecting every word and thought though. 

Who says the ego is still there?

That's the ego talking. I mean, it might be appropriate for certain contexts, but it's not true in the final analysis.

The ego is like two mirrors facing each other -- they create an endless series of reflections. Those are like the vasanas. Eliminating the vasanas bit by bit is like trying to count the reflections.

Self-inquiry is like tilting one of the mirrors away and -- suddenly they're all gone. They were only ever a trick of the light.