Discussion : Being Vegan - VS - not Being Vegan

[sgn]

@alyra LOL

[Dragallur]

3 hours ago, alyra said:

regarding morality - I laugh. people obsess over protecting animals but don't even realize half the damage they do to animals- and certainly don't value the damage the do to themselves, plants, or what they dismiss as consiousless inaminate objects. You say the rock ain't aware and I ask what is sitting still on a ground? what is suppressing that ground? what is sound when the rock falls - and the impact it has? what is erotion? what is the plants and fungus that grow upon the rock and in its cracks? why is one rock this way and the other that way? I forget who said it that I heard - but all things have personality. personality meaning, how it exists. This is consiousness too. change is consiousness. we are not the limit to consiousness - and moralizing over preserving the life of animals completely misses the reality that all of existence is precious. In order to create we must destroy. This is the necessary nature of diversity. we must survive by eating - we must grow by destroying. there is no creation without destruction. 

Well if you go the morality route there is a part you forgot, animals feel pain while rocks and plants don't because they do not have a nervous system.

[Slade]

11 minutes ago, Dragallur said:

Well if you go the morality route there is a part you forgot, animals feel pain while rocks and plants don't because they do not have a nervous system.

Plants do have a nervous system and they can communicate with each other. There’s a ted talk on this. Plants have defense mechanisms just like all other life. They don’t want to be eaten any more than a cow does.

[Dragallur]

10 minutes ago, Slade said:

Plants do have a nervous system and they can communicate with each other. There’s a ted talk on this. Plants have defense mechanisms just like all other life. They don’t want to be eaten any more than a cow does.

There is a difference between not wanting to be eaten and feeling pain. Plants don't have neurons.

[Slade]

1 hour ago, Dragallur said:

There is a difference between not wanting to be eaten and feeling pain. Plants don't have neurons.

A Venus fly trap can feel fly so what makes you think plants can’t feel more than that. 

 

[sgn]

@Slade Even if plants actually do feel pain, then being vegan would still minimize the suffering of not only animals but plants too.
Do you realize that by being vegan you would actually contribute to less suffering of plants too then? I can explain why if you don't.

So if plants feel pain, what makes that an argument against veganism?

[BjarkeT]

I have considered being a vegan but mostly because of the healthy benefits i mean it's important to take care of your self for the sake of doing so otherwise you are likely to end up unhealthy (obviously) and that can have bad consequences on your life 

Edited February 26, 2018 by BjarkeT

[Forestluv]

I’ve known vegans with unhealthy diets. Lots of junk food is vegan.

[Slade]

43 minutes ago, sgn said:

@Slade Even if plants actually do feel pain, then being vegan would still minimize the suffering of not only animals but plants too.
Do you realize that by being vegan you would actually contribute to less suffering of plants too then? I can explain why if you don't.

So if plants feel pain, what makes that an argument against veganism?

Plants feeling pain is a weak argument against veganism but I like to play devils advocate. Haha

[sgn]

@Slade

Edited February 27, 2018 by sgn

[Slade]

32 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

I have considered being a vegan but mostly because of the healthy benefits i mean it's important to take care of your self for the sake of doing so otherwise you are likely to end up unhealthy (obviously) and that can have bad consequences on your life 

If you want to be healthy then look into the primal diet. 

[BjarkeT]

14 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I’ve known vegans with unhealthy diets. Lots of junk food is vegan.

Agree but if you know the things to aviod and what you should eat more of (not just eating "blindfolded") it could probably be beneficial to your health but if there is something more healthy than vegan it's probably worth looking into

thanks for the suggestion @Slade  

Edited February 27, 2018 by BjarkeT

[ppfeiff]

On 2/25/2018 at 6:20 PM, Aquarius said:

What about carnivore animals? Specifically carnivore pets? Just a thought/question.

I agree that fast food and grains damage our bodies, and I loved Leo's video about how to shop for food. I will never look at food the same way again! But I think meat is needed sometimes. Although I'm also very new to this. However, I have read pro-meat articles about vegetarian studies, and all of them seem to be conducted by animal rights promoters or something (thus might be biased), I can't remember the exact informations written there, read it long time ago. I think the site was called "Let them eat meat" or "My plate". Look up these terms if you want, and I do admit I have to do my research.

Also, I'm not attacking anyone with my initial question, as I myself am also considering to try out the vegan diet for at least a month - after reading up on it ofc. If anyone could recommend a list of books to me, that would be great.  

 

@Aquarius

Let's take a look at the facts:

• All carnivores have the anatomy for a carnivorous diet, i.e., a digestive tract that is 1.5-3x the length of their torso, with a bowel transit time of approximately 2-4 hours, and no fiber required for peristalsis, no exceptions.
• All omnivores have a digestive tract that is 3x the length of their torso, with a bowel transit time of approximately 6-10 hours, and no fiber required for peristalsis, no exceptions.
• All herbivores have a digestive tract that is 20x the length of their torso, with a bowel transit time of approximately 24-48 hours, and fiber IS required for peristalsis, no exceptions.
• All frugivores (eat primarily raw fruits, nuts/seeds, and raw vegetables) have a digestive tract that is 9-10x the length of their torso, with a bowel transit time of approximately 12-18 hours, and fiber IS required for peristalsis, no exceptions. 
• All humans have a digestive tract that is 9-10x the length of their torso, with a bowel transit time of approximately 12-18 hours, and fiber IS required for peristalsis, no exceptions.

So, if we take meat, and let a carnivore consume it (meat has ZERO fiber), it will digest and be eliminated quickly because: 1) the digestive tract is short and 2) no fiber is required to stimulate peristalsis (involuntary muscular wave-like movement of intestines to move digested food stuffs along the tract) in the first place in a carnivore system.

However, if we take the same meat, and let a human being consume it alone, it will be a digestive problem for two reasons: 1) our digestive tract is 3x longer than a carnivore/omnivore, and 2) since no fiber is present in the meat alone, no peristalsis will be stimulated. This means that that the meat will not only stagnate, but putrefy during its lengthy bowel transit (can take 24 hours now!). I think we can both agree that having a back-up toilet/sewer system for 24 hours is a problem.

Am I saying that humans can’t survive on meat? Of course not. If humans never ate meat, perhaps we’d never be here due to food supply shortages. That said, is meat optimal for humans, especially considering we have a choice more so today than ever before to eat raw fruits, vegetables, and nuts/seeds over meat? No. Meat is NOT optimal for the human being because our anatomy is simply not designed for it. That’s like putting regular gasoline into a car that is designed for premium-grade gasoline. It’ll work, but for how long, is the question?

The same metaphor applies to eating cooked versus raw food. I'm glad to see Leo is finally catching on with the concept of eating as much raw, living food as possible. If you need to cook a dead food to eat it (e.g. grains, rice, beans, meat, etc.), then it's probably not optimal for you to eat that food. After all, I don't see natural heat stoves existing in nature for humans to use to cook their foods...  Can you survive on cooked foods? Sure. Is it optimal? Probably not, because it breaks down the fiber and destroys some nutrients in the process (yes, I know, in some very isolated cases cooking can in fact increase bio-availability of some specific nutrients, but at what cost to keeping the fiber and other nutrients in tact?). This is so easy to prove to yourself: eat cooked vegan for 1 week, and raw vegan for 1 week. The two don't even compare in the ease and frequency of bowel movements on a Raw Vegan diet. Again, it's like putting regular gasoline into a car that is designed for premium-grade gasoline. It’ll work, but for how long, is the question? And Doctors wonder where autoimmune dis-eases (the body's intelligent effort to remove weak cells) comes from... Cheers!

Edited February 27, 2018 by ppfeiff

[Adam M]

ive been vegan for 6 months because I dont have access to "healthy" meat and eggs (pasture raised)....

I don't eat wheat or refined sugar either

 

I don't really identify as a vegan, but instead I identify as someone who wants to eat healthy food.

I feel that my food digests faster and I feel lighter.

[ppfeiff]

@Star Net A favorite recipe:

Raw Vegan Zoodle Pasta

YES. It tastes like real pasta  To my friends and I at least

Base:

• 2-3 Spiralized Zucchinis*
• 1-2 Chopped Sprigs of Cilantro* (place on top of pasta at end)

Sauce:

• 1 Ripe Hass Avocado (don't include pit and skin of course)
• Lime Juice from 1 Juiced Lime
• 2-3 Sprigs of of Cilantro* (to taste)
• Italian Herbs Spice* (to taste)
• Pink Himalayan Sea Salt (optional, to taste)

Preparation:

1. Spiralize Zucchinis into bowl.
2. Blend Sauce ingredients in a blender.
3. Pour blended sauce into bowl.
4. Mix Sauce with Spiralized Zucchinis until uniform.
5. Place 1-2 Chopped Sprigs of Cilantro On Top + Sprinkle more Italian Herbs if desired
6. Enjoy!

You can easily swap out ingredients, for example basil for cilantro.

Cheers. 

* Designates Bio/Organic. Do the best you can and go for fresh ingredients, all organic is ideal of course.

Result:

Edited February 27, 2018 by ppfeiff

[Lorcan]

What is the point of going full vegan? 

What is wrong with eating just 50g of tuna a day and eat the rest vegetables.

That way you get the benefits from haven eaten meat. Is it not so?

 

[sgn]

@Lorcan What's the benefits?

[Star Net]

Hi

@Outer   @Michael569    @sgn   @alyra   @BjarkeT @Serotoninluv @Slade   @Lorcan

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

Cool to see people from Iraq here

Cool To See You ..

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

If you have a wife she can buy and cook for you.

No,I am not married .

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

How are beans there? Do you eat hummus?

They are cool , Actually I ate hummus yesterday evening ,

On 26.02.2018 at 1:49 PM, Outer said:

You need to supplement Vitamin B12, as it's not in plant foods. Even meat typically don't have it unless the cows, for example, is given supplement.

Vitamin B12 supplement - required

You can also buy a multivitamin, I bet in Iraq it's probably easier to find than B12 supplement. It contains B12.

Yes, I think it is easy to find supplements for B12, But I do not like Chemical supplements has been manufactured by companies and sold by pharmacies, Actually I do not like to go to the Pharmacies,

I prefer Natural resources, And I am Searching and asking about them.

On 26.02.2018 at 3:45 PM, Michael569 said:

You are unlikely to find a support there

No, I think I am going to find support, There are very good doctors in Iraq ...

On 26.02.2018 at 8:46 PM, alyra said:

In order to create we must destroy. This is the necessary nature of diversity. we must survive by eating - we must grow by destroying. there is no creation without destruction.

There are differences between Destroying and reshaping, and I think if there is a chance for Us to reshape anything in nature in order to have some benefits it will be better than destroying.

On 27.02.2018 at 0:11 AM, Dragallur said:

animals feel pain while rocks and plants don't

You are Right.

On 27.02.2018 at 1:55 AM, Slade said:

A Venus fly trap can feel fly so what makes you think plants can’t feel more than that. 

 

We as humans, Our brains receive some kinds of signals from the nervus system, then the brain explains these signals as pain for Us, then We feel pain, This video does not say that the plants have the same mechanism or the plants feels pain.

 

On 27.02.2018 at 6:21 PM, ppfeiff said:

Can you survive on cooked foods? Sure. Is it optimal? Probably not, because it breaks down the fiber and destroys some nutrients in the process

I have a question,

I can eat raw apple, Orange, Banana ....etc but the question is How can I eat some thing like white beans without cooking it ?

do You know a method ?

On 28.02.2018 at 1:33 AM, ppfeiff said:

A favorite recipe:

Raw Vegan Zoodle Pasta

Thanks for the recipe, I am not so good when it comes to recipes, I am learning step by step, Thanks again .

 

 

[Star Net]

Bad News for Meat eaters and animal products consumers,

No animals on Mars ...

[Max_V]

@Lorcan There's a lot of toxins in meat and fish both. 

Also, if you want to look at it from another perspective, you are eating animals and causing suffering while there is no particular reason since man can strive and actually feel much better on a plant based diet.

If you want more information on this you should watch the documentaries: 'What the health', and 'Forks over knives'. Both of these take a health point of view.