How to be wise

Enlightenment and brain damage?

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With enlightenment being this universal god-like experience, it is, in the end of the day, just a brain function. So is it possible to ‘lose’ your enlightenment in some kind of an accident just like how people lose their memory or other functions of their head? Also, other self-actualized attainments like emotional mastery and being ecstasic all the time. Can you lose them if your have a certain brain injury?

Edited by How to be wise

"It’s all been a misunderstanding. The ego to me is a beautiful thing.” — Byron Katie

 

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@How to be wise that’s the materialist paradigm. You would not be able to lose enlightenment because there wasn’t anything gained to begin with. The brain, and the person it’s in, are a dream within what is permanent. Ultimately, that’s you. There would only be the illusion of something gained and something lost. No one could know what the experience is without experiencing it. 


Truth is essential, not accidental - create a life worth waking up to, and you will. 

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2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@How to be wise that’s the materialist paradigm. You would not be able to lose enlightenment because there wasn’t anything gained to begin with. The brain, and the person it’s in, are a dream within what is permanent. Ultimately, that’s you. There would only be the illusion of something gained and something lost. No one could know what the experience is without experiencing it. 

I understand enlightenment quite well. But I’m speaking practically here. If sadhguru was in a motorbike accident and loses his memory, will he still be enlightened? Enlightenment is a phenomenon of the brain. 

It’s quite hard to have this conversation because enlightenment doesn’t occur anywhere and the brain doesn’t exist and so on. But, just like snorting some psychedelics up your brain can give you an enlightenment experience, there can be things that happen to the brain that can lose your enlightenment. Stop being so ‘new age’ here. I’m not disagreeing with you when you say that the brain doesn’t cause our reality. But what I’m saying is that your perception of reality can change if the structure of your brain changes. 


"It’s all been a misunderstanding. The ego to me is a beautiful thing.” — Byron Katie

 

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Nahm I get what you're doing. You're speaking from the perspective of what we would call enlightenment. However what you're saying is due to your brain at this moment. If it was any different, it would be like any other person you see on the street. Otherwise you would say everyone is enlightened already, and that doesn't make any sense.

Denying the brain is just neo-advaita fluff fluff to try and sound enlightened and pretend like other people will become enlightened due to it. No, practice is necessary and that's that. We can fluff however much we want. But the fact is that the practice changes the brain, hence you can become enlightened or not. Practice changes the brain the same way psilocybin does.

It's not the materialist paradigm by the way. That's a straw man fallacy. Everything can be in consciousness and at the same can the brain that is in consciousness affect to what extent consciousness is reduced through the brain, if Mind-At-Large is taken as baseline.


Hero's Journey

Spiral Dynamics

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45 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@How to be wise that’s the materialist paradigm. You would not be able to lose enlightenment because there wasn’t anything gained to begin with. The brain, and the person it’s in, are a dream within what is permanent. Ultimately, that’s you. There would only be the illusion of something gained and something lost. No one could know what the experience is without experiencing it. 

That's a good point but I wonder, isn't Enlightenment like a body thing? Even after having experienced No-Self, there's still this doubt. If I take 5-MeO, then it is the body that takes it... So it makes sense that somehow it can fall back. Couldn't the illusion come back somehow?

Edited by Afonso

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@Afonso

It is a body thing, it's the self that's separate from the body.

In fact, if you eat poorly, too unregularly, sleep unwell, have some physical illness, go through a rough period of job loss, financial insecurity, etc, it can all quote 'take it away' or at least reduce it, but who knows.


Hero's Journey

Spiral Dynamics

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10 minutes ago, Afonso said:

That's a good point but I wonder, isn't Enlightenment like a body thing? Even after having experienced No-Self, there's still this doubt. If I take 5-MeO, then it is the body that takes it... So it makes sense that somehow it can fall back. Couldn't the illusion come back somehow?

There is a being, and it is just being. Within it, it is ‘imagining’ being Afonso, and within Afonso is a thought about what it is to be only the being, which isn’t being experienced, because it is being Afonso, thinking, and asking the question. This Being, being Afonso, minus the thinking, minus the question, is the actual answer - because then there is no answer, because there no longer is a question, no duality happening within the Being.   Also, Being, no longer being Afonso, is the actual answer, because then Being is not being Afonso, so there is no Afonso thinking about this. When we are only being, such as ‘on a trip’, or in meditation, this gets real funny real fast, because we see that we were already this Being all along, which was being Afonso. Then we tend to come ‘out of’ the trip, and resume thinking, and eventually we say, (because this is the nature of thinking, of duality)  “wait...what was...how did that...was I?....etc”. 


Truth is essential, not accidental - create a life worth waking up to, and you will. 

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Light  (DNA emits light, scientifically proven in the 1950).

Light is the blueprint of the physical organism.

So when the physical organism experiences damage, the light is not lost.

When you meditate, you are downloading higher electromagnetic light frequencies into your body.


The mind has no answers and the heart has no questions.

 

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You guys still don't get it.

THERE ARE NO BRAINS!

Like, seriously.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys still don't get it.

THERE ARE NO BRAINS!

Like, seriously.

This is deep.  Thanks.  It really gets at the way the Mind individuates reality and then turns a heterogyny into a monolith.  We need to see how language does this on the larger scale Leo.  The way that the Mind and language work together to order reality is what people need to be able to see with the highest degree of awareness.  This awareness in me is one of my greatest strengths in this work at this point.  But it requires some theory, some explanation to bring about this kind of awareness.  That’s because people aren’t exposed to these ideas unless they happened upon them in Philosophy studies or somehow otherwise.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

Reality is not infinite, reality is God Awareness. 

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys still don't get it.

THERE ARE NO BRAINS!

Like, seriously.

But you said it yourself that  appearances affect other appearances. That person will  certainly not feel the oneness with the world anymore.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys still don't get it.

THERE ARE NO BRAINS!

Like, seriously.

With all due respect, you indoctrinated yourself into believing this through selective readings, drugs and meditation.  You don't like debates, logic, the scientific method, the law of non-contradiction and critical thinking. Basically all the tools that we use to make sense of our world and distinguish between quackery and reality.  The final obstacle was the brain because one could always claim that this is all happening in your head and so you got rid of that too.  Seriously, you took a drug which affects your brain to determine that it does not exist.


''I am surrounded by priests who repeat incessantly that their kingdom is not of this world, and yet they lay their hands on everything they can get'' (NapoleonBonaparte).

"We control matter because we control the mind. Reality is inside the skull. You will learn by degrees, Winston. There is nothing that we could not do. Invisibility, levitation—anything. I could float off this floor like a soap bubble if I wish to. I do not wish to, because the Party does not wish it. You must get rid of those nineteenth-century ideas about the laws of Nature. We make the laws of Nature." (1984)

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Maybe in order to answer that we must first understand what madness is,what consciousness loss is. What does it mean to have your own consciousness? How come millions of electrical signals that goes in circles in your brain neurons generates the consciousness you use to relate to everything around you? What does it mean that you no longer exist? That your consciousness was "stolen" from you? Where did you go?

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@mp22 do you know what you are?


Truth is essential, not accidental - create a life worth waking up to, and you will. 

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@ahmad ibdah do you know what you are?


Truth is essential, not accidental - create a life worth waking up to, and you will. 

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@Leo Gura I can only recall previous No-Self experiences. The only thing that was "real" was the Now experience. So life is like a movie, and everything in the movie is as real as a pixels on a screen. So anything that "happens" is an illusion, there's only the screen shining different frames. So, there's nothing really going on, even though the movie seems continuous and perfectly logical and materialistic. Is this your point?

So, "taking" 5-MeO is just parts of the movie where the screen recognises itself, everything apart from that, brain, chemicals, etc., is just part of the picture frames.

I can see where this is heading but still hard to grasp. Could you elaborate?

Edited by Afonso

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2bec3fd922d24b5ac1de3cb310fae7e2c58e8d418aefd9ef06950a76849e063a.jpg

Is this some kind of buddhist/Jedi Selfless type of stuff. The abrogation of the self leading to "Jedi reflexes". A CPU being the "brain" of a computer. 

 

 

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@mp22 When proclaiming another's delusion, first make sure that you are not a victim of it yourself.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Saying there is no brains is the same as saying there are brains, if you are into nonduality, right?

Idealism is compatible with brains by the way. Please don't straw man with the argument that brains = materialism.

"The brain is an organ that serves as the center of the nervous system in all vertebrate and most invertebrate animals. The brain is located in the head, usually close to the sensory organs for senses such as vision. The brain is the most complex organ in a vertebrate's body. In a human, the cerebral cortex contains approximately 15–33 billion neurons,[1] each connected by synapses to several thousand other neurons. These neurons communicate with one another by means of long protoplasmic fibers called axons, which carry trains of signal pulses called action potentials to distant parts of the brain or body targeting specific recipient cells."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain

Is this Fake Facts?

Edited by Outer

Hero's Journey

Spiral Dynamics

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