Warning To Members Here

[Ulax]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

To put the whole Nahm situation into perspective..this is how I see it:

Leo removed Nahm from the moderation team because their understandings of awakening had fundamentally diverged. Their approaches were no longer compatible..and it eventually became clear that they were moving in completely different directions.

The ban happened shortly afterward because Nahm began privately messaging Actualized.org members and inviting them to join his own forum.. which was copy pasting Actualized.org.
From Leo’s standpoint.. crossed a line. Whether people agree with it or not.. I can understand why he felt banning Nahm was the only logical  response.  I don’t think Leo had many realistic alternatives.

That said..I also think it’s important to recognize that Nahm was never some manipulative scammer  talking gibberish and fooling around . He struck me as an exceptionally wise mature person. I believe there was room for genuine dialogue with him..particularly around  expanding his  positions beyond reducing everything to thoughts and beliefs.

Personally..found Nahm’s contributions to the forum extraordinary. Time and time again he engaged deeply with what members were actually saying..challenged assumptions with genuine curiosity..and even showed empathy and emotional support for people lost .and offered guidance that I found remarkably insightful and practical. In my experience..many of his posts resonated far more strongly than Leo .

Leo on the other had until this day still acts increasingly distant and dismissive. The “don’t befriend me” attitude zthe brief one-line replies ,..and the tendency to leave members with cryptic responses and a lot of time not responding AT ALL to people begging him to respond .It is honestly very annoying. 

Sorry but I felt I needed to finally say that.

 

No one is entitled to a response from anyone else. Though i can understand feeling frustrated by that.

And I get you liked the dude, but this is getting tin foil hat like with regards to his ban. I wish the dude the best but the dude was acting like some sort of satirical spiritual cartoon character.

[UnbornTao]

What is claimed or thought may not necessarily be the same as what actually happens in practice, so learn to make a distinction in that domain.

For example, look at what's encouraged, what's discouraged, how people interact with each other, how they treat Leo, how "dissidents" are seen, etc.

Don't stop at surface impressions and your reactions to the assertions and atmosphere. What goes on in certain interactions?

Making assertions is easy. You can claim and think anything. You already do. This does not imply the claim is consistent with, or bears any resemblance to, actuality. Consider this gap.

The alien recording is brought up as a clear instance where certain dynamics are made apparent. Who dares to confront the teacher's bullshit? How come many refused to keep him accountable according to standards he'd set up for himself?

Instead of admitting failure, he'd rather ban and unmod a few members.

Now, you have a reaction to this type of contentious expression - feel it and then separate your reaction from its underlying message. If you want to educate yourself, read @zurew's posts, a "Tier 2, epistemically responsible, big dick (former) member." Nice profile picture, by the way.  

Negative meanings are likely instinctively associated with the term "cult" itself. I'm not saying Leo is necessarily evil, egotistical or narcissistic, deliberately deceiving and misleading people, or even aware that he might be contributing to this situation. The critique is essentially about the tacit expectation to believe. I'm not even sure this is recognized by Leo when it happens. It may come across as "progress" or loyalty, perhaps, depending on the case.

You and I likely know the theory and the "Actualized worldview," too, but let's go past the chatter and past the affectations.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

Come on man. You make a reasonable argument before this and then make this Nahm argument again. i don't mean to be rude but this Nahm argument is a bit ridiculous. As I alluded to in my previous comment, the guy was giving cartoonishly bad advice in his mod position.

I got more value from Nahm's post than anybody else on the forum. I was shocked when he was demoted.

[Inliytened1]

42 minutes ago, Someone here said:

To put the whole Nahm situation into perspective..this is how I see it:

Leo removed Nahm from the moderation team because their understandings of awakening had fundamentally diverged. Their approaches were no longer compatible..and it eventually became clear that they were moving in completely different directions.

The ban happened shortly afterward because Nahm began privately messaging Actualized.org members and inviting them to join his own forum.. which was copy pasting Actualized.org.
From Leo’s standpoint.. crossed a line. Whether people agree with it or not.. I can understand why he felt banning Nahm was the only logical  response.  I don’t think Leo had many realistic alternatives.

That said..I also think it’s important to recognize that Nahm was never some manipulative scammer  talking gibberish and fooling around . He struck me as an exceptionally wise mature person. I believe there was room for genuine dialogue with him..particularly around  expanding his  positions beyond reducing everything to thoughts and beliefs.

Personally..found Nahm’s contributions to the forum extraordinary. Time and time again he engaged deeply with what members were actually saying..challenged assumptions with genuine curiosity..and even showed empathy and emotional support for people lost .and offered guidance that I found remarkably insightful and practical. In my experience..many of his posts resonated far more strongly than Leo .

Leo on the other had until this day still acts increasingly distant and dismissive. The “don’t befriend me” attitude ..the brief one-line replies ,..and the tendency to leave members with cryptic responses and a lot of time not responding AT ALL to people begging him to respond .It is honestly very annoying. 

Sorry but I felt I needed to finally say that.

 

Nahm was not teaching spirituality he became obsessed with a conceptual belief system of there being no you.  @Carl-Richard if you wanna talk about turning spirituality into religion look no further than him. 

 

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Adi Da talked quite a bit about this topic:

Unironically, his group turned into a full-on cult - a characterization Leo himself agreed with on one of my threads. Brain-dead people, he called his followers. I think this is educational, if only to discourage so much gullibility.

You'll likely not see it that way, since you've watched a few videos about "epistemic responsibility" and the like, and think that, because we talk and think about it, this material necessarily resembles the reality of the situation - yet the claims keep being made regardless, despite whatever mental caricature of this work you're operating with. We both know the theory; we've seen the videos, and still the claims keep being made. For a reason.

Could there be any resemblance at all to places like these?

Edited 4 hours ago by UnbornTao

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

I get your concerns man. And I agree there is a place for allowing cult accusations, and I agree that suspiciousness  could arise.

But you aren't acknowledging that many of the accusations are either bad-faith or very unreasonable

I agree they’re harmful. People are more educated about cults than they are about false cult accusation cases. That’s why I think open discussion is so important.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

You'll likely not see it that way, since you've watched a few videos about "epistemic responsibility" and the like, and think this material has to necessarily resemble reality, or the reality of the situation - yet the claims keep being made regardless, despite whatever mental caricature of this work you're operating with. We both know the theory; we've seen the videos, and still the claims keep being made. For a reason.

This effect is well documented in other domains that do not even involve "consumption" ie reading a book on epistemology, or watching a video on YouTube. The effect of having viewed something is often conflated with having understood that thing.

Speaking about plans and projects has a similar onflow effect, although in a different domain. The act of speaking about the topic, plan, or concept makes us feel we are 1) making progress toward the thing and 2) increases our own perceived understanding of the topic/plan/concept. There is also an element of fluency heuristics we use where familiar information feels easier to process - and then we mistake fluency with mastery.

It is usually not until we are questioned critically, or we critically inspect the "how, who, what, why?" of the thing that we see the holes, assumptions, inferences and logic/fallacies behind our understanding of the thing. In particular hidden assumptions - assumptions in general - are ways to strengthen an argument. They band-aid over weak points. Anyway, I digress a bit there... 

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[EdgeGod900]

7 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

Leo is right about everything.

 

Wipe yo mouth bro. His cock can't taste that good. 

[Monster Energy]

7 minutes ago, EdgeGod900 said:

Wipe yo mouth bro. His cock can't taste that good. 

At least he has a dick. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cat in your profile picture has a romantic relationship with you, because that’s more than you’ll ever get. No one will ever be kind enough to put their dick in your mouth.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Monster Energy

[Miguel1]

@Monster Energy @EdgeGod900

Stop it. Be civil towards each other

[Miguel1]

This is not good. At this rate, we will lose this community.

Whatever happens, the least I expect of you in a community like this, is to remain respectful — even in your biggest disagreements.

If you can’t even do that, after all this work, then you have learned nothing.

[EdgeGod900]

7 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the cat in your profile picture has a romantic relationship with you, because that’s more than you’ll ever get. 

 

 

Yeah nigga, I love cats nigga: 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

@Monster Energy @EdgeGod900

Stop it. Be civil towards each other

Bro we just talking shit... Forum becoming soft like charmin stg.

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nahm was not teaching spirituality he became obsessed with a conceptual belief system of there being no you.  @Carl-Richard if you wanna talk about turning spirituality into religion look no further than him. 

Well then 'heil Hitler bitch' I'm a full on Nahmzist ✋️

Edited 3 minutes ago by Carl-Richard

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

he became obsessed with a conceptual belief system

My experience with him is he seemed to be more concerned with how thoughts feel.

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

the brief one-line replies

You don't appreciate the artistry of the one-liner.