Warning To Members Here

[Leo Gura]

If I see you referring to Actualized.org as a cult, you will be banned.

I've had enough of entertaining such disrespect towards my work and this community.

If you disagree with the core values of Actualized.org, it's very simple: leave.

Don't forget that being here is a privilege. No one is forcing you to learn any of this.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Harikrishnan]

Yes, finally. It was really demotivating to see people nitpicking everything you've said in the past under a microscope and then jumping to accusations of cult-like behavior. Constructive criticism is one thing, but constantly interpreting everything through that lens doesn't lead to productive discussion.

[Someone here]

Mad respect !

[Opulence]

Ignorance is the highest devilry.

[meta_male]

@Leo Gura As someone who grew up in a cult, I don't think this helps your case. I understand you want respectful discussion but banning the label is going to make people who are undecided more suspicious. It would be healthier to address the concerns people raise and discuss the nuances of why Actualized could or could not be considered cult-like.

[Sincerity]

Unfortunate, but reasonable I think. Some have really gone overboard with shitting on you and this place. It’s like they suffer through you and your teachings because they just want the benefits of this community. It’s leeching in a way.

I understand you having enough of it. It’s not fun to be slandered and engaged in bad faith all the time.

This won’t alleviate the cult allegations, but oh well. They were stupid to begin with. The people who this work will most deeply affect should see through them anyway.

2 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

Constructive criticism is one thing, but constantly interpreting everything through that lens doesn't lead to productive discussion.

Agree.

[Jirh]

Quote

If you disagree with the core values of Actualized.org

The disagreement is not with Actualized.org's core values.

It's precisely for those values, actually.

Edited 4 hours ago by Jirh

[Monster Energy]

They only say that because you don’t know whether solipsism is true or not.

Is there logic in that? No.

But if you look deeper, you can see the root.

 

 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, meta_male said:

@Leo Gura As someone who grew up in a cult, I don't think this helps your case. I understand you want respectful discussion but banning the label is going to make people who are undecided more suspicious. It would be healthier to address the concerns people raise and discuss the nuances of why Actualized could or could not be considered cult-like.

@Leo Gura i kinda agree with this...I mean..a lot of this is going to come off as like a fear tactic.  Its better to just admit that you exhibited some odd God complex like behavior - or that is what it appears in that if we dont follow you we will never reach the states of consciousness "promised" by you and that no one has already.   Can you clarify where I have gone wrong here?  I'm never stated this is a cult but I do find some of your behavior disturbing.  If you just kick people out that want to question you then that would be kinda cult like wouldn't it?  Your overall tone can be at times come off condensending and this would just solidy things.  You have to realize you are dammed if you do here and damned if you don't.   I understand you have to stick with your convictions but there isnt a way you can judge how awake someone else is.  If you showed a bit more humility and explained your teachings in a way that didnt come off as so grandiose and exalting yourself above everyone else I think it would go along way.  If someone doesn't speak up they then appear to be a "blind" follower.  I understand these people may not follow you on to some of your highest teachings anyway but your highest teachings involve psychedelics anyway and some people can't do them anyway due to genetics.  

[Sugarcoat]

I agree that straight up "cult" accusations are disrespectful, not intentionally, but it is a misuse of the word. 

I can share, that I've had psychic and "woo woo" experiences that are so radical, that I barely find any information about them upon googling, and I suspect some of them wouldn't even be believed in new age communities. So I am not thrown off by bold radical statements, as I'm familiar with having experiences myself that are outside of mainstream spirituality and also this community. But still I don't know what goes on during your peak experiences, ofc.

I got reminded of David Goggins. There's some people that judge him for being arrogant, and I think it is actually inhumane in a way to think that (just like what he does is inhumane haha). If there is anyone in the world who is justified in his way of viewing himself, it's him, he is one of those people. I thought to myself, it's almost like Leo Gura is "David goggins of the mind". As in, the most hardcore in their particular niche, so what I said applies to him in a way too, but not exactly the same because Leo is also about "deconstructing the ego" which Goggins isn't, but still. 

Another example is Freelee the Banana girl. She used to receive a lot of criticism in the vegan community, and yes it is justified in a way because she used to be disrespectful sometimes in her videos. But I always liked her somehow, and she has evolved over the years. I always felt "she is onto something". And she knows that, and I know that (from my own experiences over the years), and thats one reason why she is "arrogant".  

Claiming you're enlightened (aka permanent "no self", I'm calling it that for now to make this point) is one thing. It puts more pressure in a way, I would also think "how could you claim to be enlightened acting like that", if that was the case. But Leo doesn't do that, he doesn't claim to be enlightened in his everyday state. 

People who judge "ego", they don't realize that, they also have one, and just because your ego isn't "arrogant" doesn't mean it's more "open", or "less ego". Arrogance has many different levels to it. It's content of the ego, in similar way that "low self esteem" is content of the ego. 

A person with low self esteem, a confident person, and an arrogant person, they all could have equally as closed or open egos, because content of the ego (what type of identity) is different from the structure of it aka how "dense" it is etc. So one of them is not necessarily more "truthful" than the other. (Reminds me of content vs structure video but with my own twist lol, I don't remember if Leo mentioned the ego there) 

"Arrogance" doesn't automatically disqualify insight, if there is ego present in everyday state, "arrogance" is a natural response after having those experiences that are perceived to be of the highest sort. If there is fight outside your window, you'll be triggered to go and look, and you expect someone to be "causal" and "nuanced" or about peak experiences? Let alone what Leo is talking about. 

Next time you watch soccer, if you do, maybe try to not react at all, and observe this "agitation to express yourself when something seemingly profound happens" that is part of how the ego works, and maybe you'll get as gist of what I'm saying. 

Also I can say, I don't consume Leo Guras content (or any spiritual teacher for that matter, more than just some shorter clips or something).

But when I was about 16 years old and I saw Leos channel for the first time, I was so captivated by the depth and the nuance of it, that I spent one summer inside and watched every single video (several hundreds) front to back that he had posted back then. Thats how much it resonated for me back then, so what I'm saying it not grounded on nothing. 

I have a suggestion, if there is anyone reading this who knows of a YouTube channel (or other media) that has produced content at that level of bandwidth, depth, and intellectual nuance like Acualized.org. Feel free to share, as I've not stumbled across one.  

I thought of these questions:

Could you talk about rationality for 10+ hours? "Sameness vs difference" for 4+ hours? Or even "How to get laid" for 7 hours? How many people can do that? On that level for so long? What does it say about the mind of such a person? Maybe that reveals more than some "arrogant statements" here and there. 

: )

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Carl-Richard]

I think Actualized.org is a new religious movement, a social group with deviant beliefs relative to society with religious tendencies. Now ban me ;P

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Wilhelm44]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I understand you have to stick with your convictions but there isnt a way you can judge how awake someone else is.

"Leo doesn't know what enlightenment is.  He's had crazy glimpses. But the weird thing is is how brilliant he is with bringing the material to you.  He doesn't have the genetics for awakening though."

Yet somehow you have found a way lol

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

"Leo doesn't know what enlightenment is.  He's had crazy glimpses. But the weird thing is is how brilliant he is with bringing the material to you.  He doesn't have the genetics for awakening though."

Yet somehow you have found a way lol

Just giving him back the shit he gives the people who don't or cant use due to genetics.  The "meditators" He has for years stated they can never reach the states of consciousness he can with psychedelics.  But how can he know that.  

You're right, its impossible to me that he could teach the material he does without being awake, but then when he makes statements like that it really surprises me as well.  So perhaps it is because he couldn't he assumes no one can.  And because he couldn't maybe its a completely different level of awakening or enlightenment that he will never understand. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Wilhelm44]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think Actualized.org is a new religious movement, a social group with deviant beliefs relative to society with religious tendencies. Now ban me ;P

Come on, lets be honest, deep down you guys know you haven't outgrown Leo yet, and there is still plenty to learn here.

Leo never claimed to be the perfect embodyment of all his teachings.

 

[Someone here]

24 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think Actualized.org is a new religious movement, a social group with deviant beliefs relative to society with religious tendencies. Now ban me ;P

Take a breather. Don’t just say outrageous nonsense in the heat of the moment . Take a break . If you want of course.

[Monster Energy]

Why does it matter if people call you a cult leader or not?

It’s not like you’re trying to build a massive following or convince everyone. You’ve said yourself that you don’t want a broad audience.

You choose to stay behind a screen like some kind of movie character. So why ban people for calling you a cult leader, even if they are wrong?

If your goal is not popularity or spreading a message to the masses, but simply pointing to the existence of truth, then why care so much about the label?

 

[Rilles]

Leo, may I offer some outside advice, rather than outright banning people who accuse you of cult-like behavior, go inside yourself, thats what you do best, ask yourself, if this place does some hold some cultish tendencies, is that something that scares you? If it is; why? Does it make your own work less valuable, I guess this a form of shadow work, owning the critique rather than dismissing it. If it simply is not true in any shape or form, then the critiques you receive can largely be ignored because they are just weather, if it is true you gain the experience of growing spiritually, which I know you love to do!

 

[Davino]

I find it such an irony to call Actualized.org teachings a cult.

I haven't found more emphasis in other spiritual teachings towards proper sense making, philosophy, skepticism towards ideology, self-deception, sociology, psychology, deconstruction and value of the sovereignty of one's Mind.

If Leo really wanted to make a cult you'd lose your pants. Of course he's not perfect and has been polishing the rough edges as he goes, it's obvious with anyone with more than two brain cells the effort he has put to avoid making this work about ideology or about him. And when shit happens as it always does in life, he recalibrates and improves. He has always done his best effort in this regard.

Imagine you are a firefighter and they constantly call you pyromaniac. Wouldn't that be the greatest irony?

[enchanted]

Also all trolls and haters and people who attack personality should automatically be kicked off. This forum should have incredibly high standards for dialogue given the seriousness of the work and the lengths Leo has gone to to be profound and intellectual. 

Allowing people to argue in bad faith and in low conscious ways does a disservice to everyone including the arguers. 

This forum could be a training ground on how to have intellectual constructive discourse with a variety of people online.

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

I haven't found more emphasis in other spiritual teachings towards proper sense making, philosophy, skepticism towards ideology, self-deception, sociology, psychology, deconstruction and value of the sovereignty of one's Mind.

Lol exactly.

The teachings are exactly meant to train one’s sovereignty of mind and against group think and cult dynamics, and give the tools to discover truth for oneself. But no, invalidate all that because Leo can display narcissistic tendencies or be deluded sometimes (like with catching alien consciousness on camera). Sure, he’s a cult leader 100%.

Edited 25 minutes ago by Sincerity