Some Can't Be Helped?

[BlessedLion]

8 hours ago, Butters said:

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from? Can most people who desire to expand their consciousness? 

In another thread someone said something like "some people go to 10 ayahuasca retreats and nothing changes" and that is true. Some people go to 6 Tony Robbins events per year. 

Can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime? 

And does that then make a kundalini retreat or a yoga retreat or a psychedelic retreat completely useless to them? Surely it's still time better spent than being on TikTok. 

 

Absolutely. This is known as Saktipat and it is very real. Don't underestimate the power and effect one can have on another with one powerful conversation. Not in some fantasy Jesus way, walking on water and having everyone who looks at you dissolve into unconditional love, but in a more human way.

 

One retreat can change the whole trajectory of someones life

[Ramasta9]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The sickest people of all are sitting in corporate boardrooms, not shamanic retreats.

I was referring to in terms of those on the spiritual/conscious/psychedelic path (as we are in these forums). 

[Harikrishnan]

3 hours ago, Rigel said:

That’s assuming they are interested in going on a discovery process in the first place which is highly unlikely. People don’t just scroll TikTok and then spontaneously have non-ordinary consciousness. 

Actually some do! Last day I heard a excerpt from adyashanti, where he said (paraphrasing) a women came for retreat who have never meditated or did any consciousness work came saying she lost I, she thought it was bad and thats why she came to retreat. Many masters had spontaneous awakening without any practice.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

Please go to some guru who transmit Kundalini energy.

I am getting too old and too set in my ways to go chasing after magical gurus. A wild goose chase if there ever was one.

I've interacted with various so-called mystical enlightened people and I have not seen any of them have any kind of life-changing aura. That is stuff you read of in New Age books.

To become transformed just from an aura is a New Ager's wet dream. Zero work. Zero thought. Just magic.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Mellowmarsh]

10 hours ago, Butters said:

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from? Can most people who desire to expand their consciousness? 

In another thread someone said something like "some people go to 10 ayahuasca retreats and nothing changes" and that is true. Some people go to 6 Tony Robbins events per year. 

Can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime? 

And does that then make a kundalini retreat or a yoga retreat or a psychedelic retreat completely useless to them? Surely it's still time better spent than being on TikTok. 

 

Nothing ever changes because the one that only appears to change , apparently, is actually changeless.

The one that appears to change, apparently, never changed, for this ONE can never be found to be truly there in an objective way.

This makes it impossible to cling to a teaching or to haggle over other people’s ideas or interpretations.

Perception in this case, is deception.

 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Do we think others help us, or is it that we help ourselves? 

Maybe we can recieve a push that causes a stumble and realignment - but it is *us* that does the realigning.

In my experience 

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

This thread hits home for me. I went deep on the spiritual path, had mystical experiences that shifted my entire way of being, but eventually, I felt a strong pull to come back (or to be more truthful, I came back a bit on a whim).

Actually, I probably was subtly afraid of losing myself completely, and the primal safety/survival instinct kicked in when I came back. @Joshe mentioned that identity structures allow for persistence, and I think that is crucial. I realized that my normal self, the architect, the person who can function in society, is actually the most beneficial vehicle for mankind right now.

The challenge isn't just expanding consciousness; it's integrating that expansion into a structure that can actually do things in the world (like fixing the corporate boardrooms Leo mentioned). If we dissolve too much, we lose the agency required to change the system.

So for me, the goal shifted from transcending the human form to upgrading it.

Edited 55 minutes ago by Bjorn K Holmstrom

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Bjorn K Holmstrom said:

If we dissolve too much, we lose the agency required to change the system.

So for me, the goal shifted from transcending the human form to upgrading it.

May I ask - what it is you are dissolving, or think needs to be dissolved?

I have not lost agency in my process. On the contrary - the body moves. Tasks are done. Deadlines met. Sleeping happens. Body eats. It all happens when it should, just as it should. But with no resistance. Effortless power.

All resistance to experience is lowered - flow and ease are restored. Like there is no centre.

I still accomplish a lot. More than many.

 

[Bjorn K Holmstrom]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

May I ask - what it is you are dissolving, or think needs to be dissolved?

I have not lost agency in my process. On the contrary - the body moves. Tasks are done. Deadlines met. Sleeping happens. Body eats. It all happens when it should, just as it should. But with no resistance. Effortless power.

All resistance to experience is lowered - flow and ease are restored. Like there is no centre.

I still accomplish a lot. More than many.

 

That sounds like a beautiful state of flow/Wu Wei, Natasha. I have tasted that, and it is indeed effortless power. I'd love to feel it again.

To answer your question: What I fear dissolving is the 'Strategist' or the 'Architect'.

In my experience, navigating daily life (eating, sleeping, tasks) can be done in flow. But building entirely new infrastructures (like a political movement or complex software systems) often requires holding a painful tension between 'what is' and 'what needs to be.'

My fear is that if I dissolve all resistance to the present moment, I will lose the friction required to change the future. If I accept the world as perfect/effortless, why would I spend 10 years fighting to upgrade its operating system?

The 'upgrade' I am seeking is the ability to hold that strategic tension/vision without it collapsing into anxiety. To build the cathedral without suffering, but with the will to move heavy stones that don't want to move.

Does your effortless power extend to long-term strategic warfare (metaphorically) against rigid systems? I am genuinely curious.