Some Can't Be Helped?

[Butters]

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from? Can most people who desire to expand their consciousness? 

In another thread someone said something like "some people go to 10 ayahuasca retreats and nothing changes" and that is true. Some people go to 6 Tony Robbins events per year. 

Can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime? 

And does that then make a kundalini retreat or a yoga retreat or a psychedelic retreat completely useless to them? Surely it's still time better spent than being on TikTok. 

 

[Leo Gura]

Most people can't be helped.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.

[Schizophonia]

Helped for what. 

People are just machines with a very complicated script that varies according to their "genetics" and environmental conditions; their "karma" in general.

It is neurotic, masochistic to think that getting intoxicated on a hallucinogen (ayahuasca in particular) which slightly increases neuroplasticity for a few hours replaces psychotherapy; among other forms of ethics, such as going to the ashram if you feel like it. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Butters said:

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from?

Deep spirituality is destabilizing for most people. Spirituality is for the extraordinarily curious and/or escape-seeker. It's destabilizing even for these people, but identity structures and cognitive addictions allow for persistance.

Maybe you could say light spirituality is beneficial for most. 

[Ponder]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people can't be helped.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.

That’s where you’re wrong. If you have a strong enough baseline consciousness, people change by simply being in your presence. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Kinda presupposes a question of what are we really trying to do (maybe) with our help to others.  

[AION]

Everybody can be helped to a certain degree. But like with certain old cars. The benefits are not worth the costs. 

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Ponder said:

people change by simply being in your presence. 

This sounds nice, but it doesn't actually work.

The mind is way too stubborn to change from such minor things.

You are not gonna woo someone into changing.

Edited 16 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

I know couple guys who have deeply studied Owen Cook for 10 years, been in all possible events, and still completely in their heads with zero social skills.

This was one of the main reason I quit trying to help people so hard. The ones who get it, will get it.

And the ones who wont get it, wont get it no matter how hard you try.

Edited 15 hours ago by Miguel1

[Ulax]

3 hours ago, Butters said:

Do you believe that spiritual experiences are something most people benefit from? Can most people who desire to expand their consciousness? 

In another thread someone said something like "some people go to 10 ayahuasca retreats and nothing changes" and that is true. Some people go to 6 Tony Robbins events per year. 

Can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime? 

And does that then make a kundalini retreat or a yoga retreat or a psychedelic retreat completely useless to them? Surely it's still time better spent than being on TikTok. 

 

Any time you are getting data it is useful. You go to a kudalini retreat and you find it doesn't give meaningful benefit then that is useful.

Because now you know to try something else.

[cetus]

Remembering back to my first experience of non- ordinary consciousness it was a total game changer.  More real than reality itself. How can anyone not be permanently changed after such a discovery? 

Edit" Could it be a matter of cultivation? Like a garden that needs to be tended to, or the weeds will surely take over- referring to those who remain 'unchanged'.

Edited 12 hours ago by cetus

[Rigel]

1 hour ago, cetus said:

Remembering back to my first experience of non- ordinary consciousness it was a total game changer.  More real than reality itself. How can anyone not be permanently changed after such a discovery? 

Edit" Could it be a matter of cultivation? Like a garden that needs to be tended to, or the weeds will surely take over- referring to those who seem '

That’s assuming they are interested in going on a discovery process in the first place which is highly unlikely. People don’t just scroll TikTok and then spontaneously have non-ordinary consciousness. 

[Hojo]

Why are you worried about other people?

[Ponder]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people can't be helped.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to change.

That’s where you’re wrong. If you have a strong enough baseline consciousness, people change by simply being in your presence. 

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This sounds nice, but it doesn't actually work.

The mind is way too stubborn to change from such minor things.

You are not gonna woo someone into changing.

Is this not an assumption? Maybe you’ve just never met anyone with a sufficiently high state of consciousness. 

[Leo Gura]

I find the notion that you are gonna change some dysfunctional guy with your epic aura, laughable.

You are more likely to be stabbed to death by that guy than to change him.

New Agers love this idea that you can cure people with just your epic spiritual aura. I will believe it when I see it with my own eyes. Until such time, skepticism.

Edited 14 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Ramasta9]

I remember Bashar saying once: Some people will go to 100s of ceremonies and retreats and healers and spend thousands of dollars just to prove they can't be healed and they really don't because their belief is too strong that they don't believe they can. I see people like this all the time.

Those people that do ayahusaca 650 times, and still don't get it, they are the sickest people of all. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Ramasta9 said:

they are the sickest people of all. 

The sickest people of all are sitting in corporate boardrooms, not shamanic retreats.

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I find the notion that you are gonna change some dysfunctional guy with your epic aura, laughable.

You are more likely to be stabbed to death by that guy than to change him.

New Agers love this idea that you can cure people with just your epic spiritual aura. I will believe it when I see it with my own eyes. Until such time, skepticism.

Please go to some guru who transmit Kundalini energy. 

I know a friend who got his kundalini activated n just one meeting with a guru. It's real.

Edited 12 hours ago by OBEler

[cetus]

2 hours ago, Rigel said:

That’s assuming they are interested in going on a discovery process in the first place which is highly unlikely. People don’t just scroll TikTok and then spontaneously have non-ordinary consciousness. 

Surface Dwellers

[cetus]

21 minutes ago, cetus said:

That’s assuming they are interested in going on a discovery process in the first place which is highly unlikely.

It is very unlikely because they no idea what can be discovered. And even if somehow, they do so happen to get a glimpse of a higher level of consciousness. Unless they mindfully cultivate it, they slip back into a mundane state of consciousness.

Edited 11 hours ago by cetus