I don't care what people say, women DO NOT like masculine men

[EternalForest]

I'm going to reply to everyone at once. (Everyone does not have to reply back but if you have something to advance the conversation with, I'd love to hear it :D)

@aurum Then why does everyone say that men and women aren't that different? The conventional wisdom contradicts itself.

@Kid A Regarding the media, I agree that it's fucked how much airtime the worst of society gets. It gives sickos the idea that they might get on the nightly news and it's horrible and needs to stop, unless there's an active crisis and the public needs updates. Regarding topics, yes, obviously men and women aren't into the same topics in general. If you care about someone though, I always thought that you take at least somewhat of an interest in what they care about.

@Schizophonia While I appreciate the Freudian psychology angle, here's the thing, I'm not unhappy at all. I have struggles in my life with this and outside of this sure, but on a personal basis, I'm happy with myself. I'm trying to use the forum as a springboard to figure out why women aren't happy with me. Saying you're not masculine unless you're completely honest about your pain implies that I'm intentionally suppressing something.

@Natasha Tori Maru If there was a way I could look at the world that would actually allow me to get a relationship, I'd want it. I feel like I'm too masculine for women to enjoy being around. It's not a social skills issue, because once again I have many male friends.

@Miguel1 You sound like a great wingman to have, very good intuition. Masculine energy by itself isn't attractive, it's the skillful combo of masculine and feminine energy, as you're describing. That's what wins.

@Leo Gura @Majed @Someone here I don't NEED a girlfriend but I can't deny it's a real void in my life. I feel like there was a point where I thought I was getting closer, and then the moment I slipped up, girls lost interest again. I don't want to be something I'm not, but it seems like the only want to get a girlfriend is to be able to read minds. "If by masculine you mean stoic, serious, unexpressive, unemotional, untalkative, and logical" Bingo, that's me... And honestly I'm nowhere near a Zen master but I do prefer spending my time doing more "serious" things, yet I still want a girlfriend to share my life with. It's a tough spot.

@AION @Hojo Times have certainly changed. I feel like I would've done better living in the 20th century.

@joeyi99 They're attracted to grounding energy from men they already trust, sure. But by default, women don't trust strange men they don't know yet.

@Salvijus @Sugarcoat Yes I absolutely Charlie-d out. That's how journals look! They're supposed to be messy and raw, for no one else's eyes. I rarely post mine and only posted that one to give more perspective on my issue.

@NewKidOnTheBlock Brainrot? Not really. The concept of the masculine and feminine (and literature about it) is a whole field of study on its own.

@UnbornTao Okay, what about Punisher?

@Hardkill I mean masculine in the unattractive sense, not the attractive one. Like Leo said, "If by masculine you mean stoic, serious, unexpressive, unemotional, untalkative, and logical". I want to be bold and start cold approach this Winter, do one of those experiments like you see on YouTube. "I asked 100 girls on a date" That would be fun.

@XXXXXX Don't know how many approaches but the number is very small. I've only been on one date in my life and it was back in high school. Looking back, it might have only been a "date" to me, not to her lol. So that makes (maybe?) 1 girlfriend in my life. I've had a couple long term relationships with women online over the years but ultimately they're thousands of miles away from me so they could only grow so much without the physical element. I'm also a virgin if that isn't already obvious

@Tenebroso The women into guys that like are not the women you'd want around you anyways. But I get it, it can feel demoralizing when you feel like they have a better shot at a date than you. It's because they're exposed to hundreds and thousands of women, and there's always going to be a few women with a screw loose. In contrast, you're exposed to way less, even if you're a better guy.

@Emerald All I want is kindness and love from girls. That's it. Where does maturity or humanity come into this? Like Leo said, I don't think you'd call a Zen master "immature", but he could definitely have an underdeveloped feminine (I'm decades away from being a master of any kind, it's just an example). You speak as if the man relating to women desperately is his choice? That's the position he's in, like it or not, he can't change it so might as well own it. I wish I had more women in my life or was more feminine but I'm not right now. It is what it is. Regarding your example, I don't know, in a sense, it would be more dishonest for him to pretend like everything's A-okay with women. The bird stuff was interesting. From a guy's POV, there are few things a woman could do to make me more interested, like showing genuine interest in who I am and what I care about. I will agree though, the gender roles are pretty baked-in in that regard.

@Never_give_up @Spiral The grass is always greener... I wish I was in your position! Being a girl's guy would be awesome. I guess being too masculine or too feminine is equally bad though, I suppose.

[aurum]

3 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Then why does everyone say that men and women aren't that different? The conventional wisdom contradicts itself.

Because much of modern conventional wisdom is focused on deconstructing rigid, traditional gender roles from the past. It is a collective stage of development.

I’m pointing you towards a deeper synthesis of both.

[Jodistrict]

I think that forming a narrative that women don’t like masculine men is going way off track.  It is more productive to carefully observe your interactions with women and note the feedback you are getting, to get clues on what is turning them off.   It’s not easy to do because we tend to be so caught up in our own reactivity.  This is the real awakening work.   Putting the blame outside of us feels better, but than nothing changes.  The old game just continues.  We are locked inside our identity.   For the record: women crave masculine energy.

[UnbornTao]

Just now, Jodistrict said:

I think that forming a narrative that women don’t like masculine men is going way off track.  It is more productive to carefully observe your interactions with women and note the feedback you are getting, to get clues on what is turning them off.   It’s not easy to do because we tend to be so caught up in our own reactivity.  This is the real awakening work.   Putting the blame outside of us feels better, but than nothing changes.  The old game just continues.  We are locked inside our identity.

 

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, EternalForest said:

 

@Emerald All I want is kindness and love from girls. That's it. Where does maturity or humanity come into this? Like Leo said, I don't think you'd call a Zen master "immature", but he could definitely have an underdeveloped feminine (I'm decades away from being a master of any kind, it's just an example). You speak as if the man relating to women desperately is his choice? That's the position he's in, like it or not, he can't change it so might as well own it. I wish I had more women in my life or was more feminine but I'm not right now. It is what it is. Regarding your example, I don't know, in a sense, it would be more dishonest for him to pretend like everything's A-okay with women. The bird stuff was interesting. From a guy's POV, there are few things a woman could do to make me more interested, like showing genuine interest in who I am and what I care about. I will agree though, the gender roles are pretty baked-in in that regard.

It sounds more like an issue that you're either interacting with mean women... or you're not interacting with women at all.

My money is on the latter, given our conversation about only having male friends and acquaintances.

So, if 100% of women you're not related to are all strangers to you (not friends or acquaintances), they're going to behave in a cold and detached way towards you... just as you would have some coldness and detachment with a stranger.

It's the social contract and it's a boundaries thing. 

And while it's nice to have the idea that women you're a stranger to should just go out of their way to express kindness to you, that's just not realistic. It wouldn't even be safe for women to do that in many contexts. 

But to find kindness from a woman simply means interacting with women and makings friendships and acquaintances with women who are kind and mature. But you have to actually be acquainted. A kind woman is not going to go out of her way to share kindness with some random strangers... especially not one that wants something from her.

But love (in the romantic sense) isn't just something women give out. It doesn't work that way. Strangers also are definitely not going out of their way to love you... and no one is owed love from a stranger.