Leo Gura

Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

756 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Its not that you use words differently, its that you dont engage with their intended meaning (how the other person uses the term) and hence you dont engage with what they are saying - you are talking about a completely different thing and not responding to what they are saying.

Do you think it would make sense if I have a different meaning in mind for God realization like "God realization is when I shit in my toilet" and then tell Leo, that he is wrong about God realization being the highest awakening, because categorically its not even an awakening but a process where you shit in the toilet - do you think that would engage with what Leo is saying? 

It wouldnt engage and the issue isn't that I have a different definition for the term, the issue is that I project my own definition behind the term when Leo uses the term ,even though its super clear that he has a different definition in mind when he uses the term - so If I want to engage with what he is saying, the move isn't to project my definition behind the term, the move is to figure out what he means by the term.

Now bringing this all back to the enlightenment talk - him saying that enlightenment is an illusion can only be the case if he uses a different definition for enlightenment than how nondualists use the term (because under how nondualists use the term enlightenment, saying what Leo said would be incoherent). If Leo would have wanted to actually engage with how nondualists use the term (Like imagine actually engaging with the substance what someone says), then he wouldnt have given the responses he gave, but he was busy with projecting very uncharitably his own definition in mind.

And btw projecting and assuming a particular meaning isn't necessarily an issue (thats how most communication works - qualified  when you have good reason to think that the other person uses the same meaning behind the terms as well), but when thats clearly not the case, then its obviously uncharitable and an issue.

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15 hours ago, zurew said:

Tell that to Leo, who conflated the vertical dimension with the horizontal and who prioritized the vertical. If enlightenment is taken to be the whole horizontal dimension then it doesnt make sense to use the language he did "enlightenment is lower" or "enlightenment is an illusion" since enlightenement under how you phrased it would be the ever present truth and it also doesnt make sense to say that everything is depended on states because by definition that move would deny ever-present (the whole horizontal dimension) truth that is avalaible under all vertical dimensions.

It would be a clear category error even under how you described this whole thing ,becuase it would be like saying the x axis is lower than the y axis.

This is why we said that enlightenment (the horizontal dimension) isnt depended on any particular level or state of consciousness  (vertical dimension), which is perfectly compatible with the whole model your described.

Not everything is dependent on states, the horizontal dimension is existence itself morphing into every state, in this sense it's always present no matter the state but it's conditioned to be in one state or another. So one is always already existence and therefore, whether in hell or heaven, existence is.

I won't enter into debates of what axis is better, but I certainly have my opinions on that. Leo is more direct on his opinions. I just do everything, I work on both axis and more, my position is meta. 

The trap of the horizontals is that they never reach Infinity and God. The trap of the verticals is they always chase the peak and cannot hold consciousness moment to moment.


God-Realize, this is First Business. Know that unless I live properly, this is not possible.

There is this body, I should know the requirements of my body. This is first duty.  We have obligations towards others, loved ones, family, society, etc. Without material wealth we cannot do these things, for that a professional duty.

There is Mind; mind is tricky. Its higher nature should be nurtured, then Mind becomes Wise, Virtuous and AWAKE. When all Duties are continuously fulfilled, then life becomes steady. In this steady life GOD is available; via 5-MeO-DMT, because The Sun shines through All: Living in Self-Love, Realizing I am Infinity & I am God

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9 hours ago, vibv said:

The error lies in thinking that the Horizontal Absoluteness (which is Absolute!) would contradict the existence of any other Absoluteness.

Good insight! I've also had it. I couldn't believe it when I realized there are infinite Absolutes... It blew my mind out of classic non-duality. 

Yeah, there's Infinity of everything!:D

Infinite stupidity, infinite pizza, infinite orgasm, infinite horizontal, infinite vertical, infinite absolutes, infinite infinites...


God-Realize, this is First Business. Know that unless I live properly, this is not possible.

There is this body, I should know the requirements of my body. This is first duty.  We have obligations towards others, loved ones, family, society, etc. Without material wealth we cannot do these things, for that a professional duty.

There is Mind; mind is tricky. Its higher nature should be nurtured, then Mind becomes Wise, Virtuous and AWAKE. When all Duties are continuously fulfilled, then life becomes steady. In this steady life GOD is available; via 5-MeO-DMT, because The Sun shines through All: Living in Self-Love, Realizing I am Infinity & I am God

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2 minutes ago, Davino said:

The trap of the horizontals is that they never reach Infinity and God. The trap of the verticals is they always chase the peak and cannot hold consciousness moment to moment.

This makes sense under how you described the two axis.

Your model seems coherent.

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28 minutes ago, Davino said:

infinite Absolutes, 

infinite infinites...

facepalm_deja_q.jpg

images (1).jpeg

jesus_facepalm.jpg

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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At this point this thread is almost comical!

a96tks.jpg

Edited by TimStr

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7 hours ago, vibv said:

Maybe it's time is to begin to enjoy it ;) Word duels are a form of art.

First disarm, then hit directly into the heart.❤️ 

I just find it saddening. 

No courage 


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I just find it saddening. 

No courage 

What do you mean no courage? That couldn't be further from the truth.

It takes a lot of courage & creativity to do that the way I imagine. It's a very high form of art to use words like that.

Hitting someone directly into the heart.. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what I mean by that.

Your comment actually hurt.

I think you did it. Congratulations :o

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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Masturbating by the river.

WhatsApp Image 2025-07-08 at 19.44.48.jpeg

Edited by UnbornTao

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Horzontal, vertical... it's all made up.

You cannot box Consciousness like that.

All this will be taught at the retreat.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Only if we hit the club after :)

 


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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It's ALL made up. But it is TRUE. Wheeeee.


JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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15 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Appears to happen.

It's more real than you dare to believe.


JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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On 10/12/2025 at 5:14 PM, Leo Gura said:

I don't know. That's not a level per se, that is something you would need to specifically train for. And even then highly doubt any human has truly stopped all suffering. People like to say such things but I have never seen such a person.

You can be highly conscious but still suffer because suffering is so baked into biology.

If you hit a guru over the head with a hammer he is gonna suffer. I don't believe him if he says he won't.

If I am high on 5-MeO-DMT and super conscious of God and you hit me over the head with a hammer, it will still hurt and that has no relation to my degree of consciousness in that moment.

I have not found a level where suffering ceases, unless you are dead.

You can probably train yourself for enduring intense pain. But this would require monumental training effort. And it still assumes you have a core foundation of good health which allows you to have such strong will. When your health fails your will will also fail.

Remember, pain is not just psychological, pain can also actually damage and ruin the body and mind. If we crack your skull open with a hammer, that's not just a negative feeling, you will lose functionality and health -- which brings its own suffering. When your brain stops working you will suffer for it for years to come.

Too often pain is reduced to mere negative feeling which is incorrect. The real problem with pain is that it usually means loss of functionality too. Like if we cut off your leg, now you will suffer not being able to walk.

Woah this is a super radical thing to say. I was wondering if you thought this. So you think permanent enlightenment just is not real? Just classic buddhist escape from suffering? yea yea body hurts functionality but for an enlightened person isn't the whole idea that there is no self illusion there to suffer? This is a pretty radical thing to say that contradicts like all spiritual consensus.

Genuinely super curious to hear more about this, it raises so many questions. You really think that if you are able to suffer you can be experiencing the highest truth? isn't that a massive bias?

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13 hours ago, Davino said:

Good insight! I've also had it. I couldn't believe it when I realized there are infinite Absolutes... It blew my mind out of classic non-duality. 

Yeah, there's Infinity of everything!:D

Infinite stupidity, infinite pizza, infinite orgasm, infinite horizontal, infinite vertical, infinite absolutes, infinite infinites...

Even in maths they know that infinite infinities exist. Countable infinity, uncountable infinity, and so on..

As soon as we talk about absolutes everybody is always right, because there can't be any contradictions in the higher levels.

Contradiction is a phenomenon of our limited logic. And Yes! There's a higher kind of Logic as well.

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Horizontal, vertical... it's all made up.

You cannot box Consciousness like that.

Said the king of mapping


God-Realize, this is First Business. Know that unless I live properly, this is not possible.

There is this body, I should know the requirements of my body. This is first duty.  We have obligations towards others, loved ones, family, society, etc. Without material wealth we cannot do these things, for that a professional duty.

There is Mind; mind is tricky. Its higher nature should be nurtured, then Mind becomes Wise, Virtuous and AWAKE. When all Duties are continuously fulfilled, then life becomes steady. In this steady life GOD is available; via 5-MeO-DMT, because The Sun shines through All: Living in Self-Love, Realizing I am Infinity & I am God

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@Leo GuraAre you residing in this consciousness or just going off a conceptual framework from your psychedelic memories? Personally I can't take much back from my deepest trip awakenings, but I still someone know it was true, I just don't know how to conceptualize that. It's like once you see something, it is self evident, even if you aren't looking at it. 

But still I am skeptical of things that are not coming from your direct experience

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Just now, Davino said:

Said the king of mapping

That would be Ken Wilber's title.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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