Conservative activist, Charlie Kirk, has been shot and killed at University

[Raze]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't worry, MAGAism will fail.

Likely replaced by something worse 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Likely replaced by something worse 

Acrually there is something better but it's not on the left or the right.   It would have to be something non-partisan.

So what is worse is the left thinking it is the fix for the right and vice versa.

Edited September 27 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

Yes, I added what I could find of the scorecard. But the DOJ scrubbed the study from their website after the Charlie Kirk shooting.

But here's what was found in the study...

The vanished study opened with: “Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives. In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives.”

Are you guys really doing this. Ok.  Well right now you just might lose. What matters is the tone today and we just had an ICE warehouse shot up along with Kirk's murder.  But you're right, current events mean nothing. Let's look to history.

"Wink wink".. Israel...

I guess you just play the history game when it benefits you.  

Yeah...let's keep score...

 

Edited September 27 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Emerald that wasn't aimed at you so I apologize. It was really aimed at ,Leo i know you haven't been talking about Israel so i dont know what your views are there.

[Jodistrict]

This is a really intelligent discussion with Chris Hedges.   He starts out talking about Kirk being turned into a martyr and the importance of martyrs in fascist movements.  He goes on to discuss the right’s goal of consolidation of power and the failure of the democratic party.

 

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Are you guys really doing this. Ok.  Well right now you just might lose. What matters is the tone today and we just had an ICE warehouse shot up along with Kirk's murder.  But you're right, current events mean nothing. Let's look to history.

"Wink wink".. Israel...

I guess you just play the history game when it benefits you.  

Yeah...let's keep score...

The Ice Shooting was against immigrants at the Ice facility... not the officers.

It's just that (because the shooting happened at an Ice facility) the narrative is being twisted to frame the shooting as being reflective of leftwing political violence. But the guy killed immigrants (a common target of right wing political violence)... and people who know him say he wasn't particularly politically motivated. And he was registered as an independent.

So, he might have been just crazy and looking to cause violence against whoever was at the facility, regardless of his target being an immigrant or an ice officer.

Or maybe he went there to target immigrants only... as that is who he actually shot. You don't really have to identify with a political party to hate and target immigrants. It's just common that those who hate immigrants tie that in with a political agenda and the propaganda of the day. But not all xenophobes are knowledgeable about politics.

Also, Charlie Kirk's shooting isn't an example of leftwing political violence. It's against a right-wing figure, but Tyler Robinson isn't a leftist.

And it's clear that the Israeli government is doing all sorts of war crimes, starving children, and ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And it's clear that the Israeli government is doing all sorts of war crimes, starving children, and ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people. 

How dare you! 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Likely replaced by something worse 

Don't worry, that too will fail.

[Daniel Balan]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't worry, that too will fail.

Hey Leo, why every extremist ideology ultimately fails? Fascism was annihilated by reality in 1945, Communism was done for in 1991. Dictatorships and autoritharans on a long enough time scale, they ultimately collapse. Yet liberalism and democracy are still here since the enlightenment. 

Why is that? Why something like MAGA will always fail? Is it because it is not grounded in truth and alligned with unviersal love? Is it because it is false, therefore anything that's false is bound to die?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Hey Leo, why every extremist ideology ultimately fails? Fascism was annihilated by reality in 1945, Communism was done for in 1991. Dictatorships and autoritharans on a long enough time scale, they ultimately collapse. Yet liberalism and democracy are still here since the enlightenment. 

Why is that? Why something like MAGA will always fail? Is it because it is not grounded in truth and alligned with unviersal love? Is it because it is false, therefore anything that's false is bound to die?

Corruption always fails because it isn't true. The only thing that survives in the long term is truth.

[Daniel Balan]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Corruption always fails because it isn't true. The only thing that survives in the long term is truth.

To me all these right wing populist movements in America and Europe have as their sole objective the undoing of the majority of the anti corruption reforms that the liberal democracies have undertaken in the last 50 years. I see in my surroundings that the biggest fans of these movements are the ones that complain about the minimum wage being too high (550$ in my country) and that according to them the minimum wage should be abolished completely. I see only people who have done fiscal evasion all their life, and for the last 5 years the authorities no longer tolerated such behaviour, and now they are pissed that they have to pay their taxes so they viciously support the populist right wingers so that all their corrupt ways of doing business and doing fiscal evasion could once again be allowed. 

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Corruption always fails because it isn't true. The only thing that survives in the long term is truth.

The scary thing now is that tech is involved. Like in China which isn’t ultra violent. But they also use Chinese face recognition tech in Iran to see if women wear the veil and stuff. So if real fascism + tech. (Vance/Thiel/Palantir) or whatever will be very hard to get rid off seemingly.

[Vibes]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Corruption always fails because it isn't true. The only thing that survives in the long term is truth.

Beautiful!

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How dare you! 

I know, I'm so brazen.

And while I'm at it with my brazenness... the sky is blue and the grass is green too!

Ice cream melts when it's hot outside!

And bears DEFINITELY shit in the woods!

[Elliott]

On 9/26/2025 at 3:52 AM, Jehovah increases said:

Shame Mythbusters are gone, they could replicate this one. When JFC was shot in the head, did his body move back and forth, or was he still?

A bullet's kinetic energy must be transferred upon impact, where it is converted into various forms of energy, including damage and movement of the target, internal energy that generates heat, and strain energy that deforms the bullet and the target. This transfer of energy, often called impact energy or ballistic energy, is the mechanism by which a bullet causes injury or damage. Silly YouTube with these age restrictions. The vid is called  Assassinat de John F. Kennedy. Newton's third law". And of course it depends on the calibre being used and other factors as well.

 

And this bullet went through flesh without hitting a 'plate', hitting a plate would move the victim more rather than the bullet going straight through like with kennedy.

 

Kirks cartridge is far left, jfk is far right

[Elliott]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But there is. If some conservative guy killed AOC, you would count that against conservatives. So don't pretend you are too enlightened to keep a scoreboard. You count acts of political violence against your political opponents as proof of their depravity and inferiority to your side.

Leftists want to say that the right is more violent and dangerous than the left. Well, that requires keeping a scorecard if you want to be fair and scientific about it.

How do you know the right is more dangerous than the left unless you make that an empirical matter? Who kills more humans, right or left? You can't assume the answer, you must empirically test it. So here we are.

There's no point to the keeping score "right is more violent" There's zero point to making this claim, republicans do not use facts or evidence. No one votes based on who is more violent or says "rest in piss", it's not a thing, it actually has the opposite effect that you think, denigrating Republicans can only HELP democrats, not people you have a personal relationship, but at large, it's the type of thing otherwise conservative voters respond to POSITIVELY.

Democratic politicians should keep it clean though, not for politics though, for society. We absolutely need civil responses from intelligent people, but brash responses from others actually help us with with a large demographic, we need both.

Edited September 27 by Elliott

[Elliott]

On 9/26/2025 at 3:40 AM, Leo Gura said:

No major conservative has called for that. You are talking about crazy extremists.

And progressives call for Bush and Cheney to be punished as war crimimals, but that's not the same thing.

Yes they have. Trump re-tweeted a graphic of Biden hogtied and gagged. Kirk has been reposted in this thread calling for biden to get death penalty.

 

CBS News

GOP Fla. House Candidate Calls For Obama To Be Hanged

Jan 21, 2014 — A Republican candidate for the Florida House of Representatives said Monday that President Barack Obama should be arrested and hanged.

 

The New Republic

GOP Candidate Who Called for Obama's Execution Proceeds to ...

Mar 15, 2024 — Michele Morrow is running for office in North Carolina—and she sees nothing wrong with calling for the execution of Barack Obama.

Edited September 27 by Elliott

[zazen]

17 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

This is a really intelligent discussion with Chris Hedges.   He starts out talking about Kirk being turned into a martyr and the importance of martyrs in fascist movements.  He goes on to discuss the right’s goal of consolidation of power and the failure of the democratic party.

 

A good video in relation to this also (best listened to at 1.5x speed)

From Plato to NATO and Dun Kirk to Charlie Kirk - that’s the arc of how civilization weaponizes its own ideals to corrupt itself.

They’re framing this moment as if it’s a fight for Western civilization like those who fought in Dun Kirk. 

Martyrdom machine goes brrrr whilst money printer also goes brrrr whilst end stage capitalism and empire go brrrr bye bye

 

Edited September 27 by zazen

[Inliytened1]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

The Ice Shooting was against immigrants at the Ice facility... not the officers.

It's just that (because the shooting happened at an Ice facility) the narrative is being twisted to frame the shooting as being reflective of leftwing political violence. But the guy killed immigrants (a common target of right wing political violence)... and people who know him say he wasn't particularly politically motivated. And he was registered as an independent.

 

Well the bullets had anti-ice on them so again...this speaks volumes.  It's like when Robinson's casings had anti-facist on them.  So..of course in the end it is subjective..but i think these things contribute to the mindset and views of the shooter.   It's pretty hard to deny that they were crazy yet rational enough to carve these things into the bullet casings. 

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

 

And it's clear that the Israeli government is doing all sorts of war crimes, starving children, and ethnic cleansing the Palestinian people. 

It is not really that clear if you really look into the conflict and the history of the conflict.  The scorecard. 

Edited September 28 by Inliytened1

[MarkKol]

On 25/09/2025 at 11:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

How quickly Xi would fall if his party let up on their survelience state.

The CCP is certainly afraid of their people.

Would you support a surveillance state in America?

To me, it seems like a very smart idea, and I don't see how it limits anyone's freedom besides criminals

The UK already has 360-degree cameras on vans that scan faces and reveal criminals 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOJoRJ8gBu0/?igsh=MTA5YnBxMjNoeHI1aw==

The UK does arrest people based on stupid things like tweets these days, but that's a totally separate thing from a surveillance state

Edited September 28 by MarkKol