A true case of Conservatives being on the right side of history

[krockerman]

I don't intend this to be political. But I just like to challenging to peoples believes. I love to challenge myself.

When I was growing up my dad often spoke about how Swedens immigration would lead to a disaster due to the amount of people we were taken in, he argued that we would be unable take care of those who had already come here if we kept on taking in more. It was forbidden to have that opinion socially or to vote on the Conservative party. But today almost everyone in Sweden agrees that the immigration was mismanaged and basically agree that the anti immigration party (The  Sweden democrats) was right when they entered office 2010. 

A lot of left leaning people today even agree that Swedens situation is due to mass migration. 

The only reason I make this post is  to challenge @Leo Guras assumption that conservatives are always on the losing side. even if I am not necessarily a conservative myself. 

 

 

[Vercingetorix]

I think Leo is referring to processes that take a considerable amount of time. Will it still be true in 100 years? 200?

The world is becoming increasingly homogeneous, and although I agree that many countries have taken in too many immigrants at the moment, I ultimately believe we are evolving in the Spiral to higher stages that do not care about nationalities. 

[Basman]

On 7/22/2025 at 2:18 PM, Vercingetorix said:

I ultimately believe we are evolving in the Spiral to higher stages that do not care about nationalities. 

Nationality becomes less relevant for our sphere of concern but higher orders of identification will still matter in a relative sense if they matter to survival.

You can get pretty sci-fi with it, but imagine for example the West vs an Asian conglomerate (for example a future union between China and other Asian countries). Or Earth government vs outer planets. Or humans vs aliens.

Differences matter to the degree that it matters for survival, broadly speaking, untill our survival gets refined to the point where certain differences no longer matter in a relative sense.

[Alex4]

Sweden consistently ranks as one of the countries with the best quality of life according to the OECD, so your father prediction that it was heading for disaster couldn’t be further from the truth. 

[Leo Gura]

Your view is far too short.

Soon enough Swedes will be fucking aliens.

[koops]

On 22/7/2025 at 2:18 PM, Vercingetorix said:

I think Leo is referring to processes that take a considerable amount of time. Will it still be true in 100 years? 200?

The world is becoming increasingly homogeneous, and although I agree that many countries have taken in too many immigrants at the moment, I ultimately believe we are evolving in the Spiral to higher stages that do not care about nationalities. 

 Bringng into your country thounsands and thousands of stage red peoeple is not going to evolve a country through the spiral. 

[Something Funny]

@koops why not? How else do you disillusion stage green and move on to yellow?

Also, why should we look at country scale? At the world scale it might move those stage red people abd their children up the spirala quicker.

[Daniel Balan]

I'm most of the time quite leftist. But on immigration, man I am quite a Nazi. I think we should only bring in people with clean criminal records. I don't care what skin colour you have, or what nationality you have, the moment you commited a crime, you beat somebody, or you stole something, you should get your ass deported to Antarctica. That is valid for locals too! Why spend money on killers and rapists when we could deport them on an empty island in the middle of the pacific? 

Man I hate violent people so much. 

[koops]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@koops why not? How else do you disillusion stage green and move on to yellow?

Also, why should we look at country scale? At the world scale it might move those stage red people abd their children up the spirala quicker.

Well, if its about disillusion it may work, but whats the price? Look at Sweeden crime rates.

Nope, those people are not going to integrate. Too much of a jump in development. Everybody loses. Is a lose-lose situation.

 

1 hour ago, Daniel Balan said:

I'm most of the time quite leftist. But on immigration, man I am quite a Nazi. I think we should only bring in people with clean criminal records. I don't care what skin colour you have, or what nationality you have, the moment you commited a crime, you beat somebody, or you stole something, you should get your ass deported to Antarctica. That is valid for locals too! Why spend money on killers and rapists when we could deport them on an empty island in the middle of the pacific? 

Man I hate violent people so much. 

Exactly (well maybe not Antartica but still...)

Edited Wednesday at 05:09 PM by koops

[Iblitan]

@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your view is far too short.

Soon enough Swedes will be fucking aliens.

What's with Leo recently parroting conservative elitist racist xenophobic views? I mean if someone with high consciousness like leo advocates such views is there hope for a filthy brown man like me? I didn't really choose to be born in a shithole. I definitely wish I wasn't. But if I am unwelcome in developed countries how do I get a good life? Am I completely doomed? If only genetically superior people get to become elites and have good lives, is there even a point for me to exist? If such views are true, why not bomb all shitholes out of existence to end the suffering of people like me and to prevent the suffering of future souls? You prevent the suffering of both the developed and the undeveloped. Maybe even end racism right? If there is no different undeveloped group to be racist to then you practically solved racism.

[Leo Gura]

@Iblitan You did not understand what I said.

There's nothing more liberal than fucking an alien.

Edited yesterday at 07:49 AM by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Iblitan You did not understand what I said.

There'a nothing more liberal than fucking an alien.

It's kind of exciting to even entertain that thought. Lol.

[Alex4]

45 minutes ago, Iblitan said:

@Leo Gura

What's with Leo recently parroting conservative elitist racist xenophobic views? I mean if someone with high consciousness like leo advocates such views is there hope for a filthy brown man like me? I didn't really choose to be born in a shithole. I definitely wish I wasn't. But if I am unwelcome in developed countries how do I get a good life? Am I completely doomed? If only genetically superior people get to become elites and have good lives, is there even a point for me to exist? If such views are true, why not bomb all shitholes out of existence to end the suffering of people like me and to prevent the suffering of future souls? You prevent the suffering of both the developed and the undeveloped. Maybe even end racism right? If there is no different undeveloped group to be racist to then you practically solved racism.

I'm sorry you're feeling like that man,  but don't take seriously these morons in internet forums. They're just spoiled western kids and stupid.

[DocWatts]

I don't have many kind things to say about contemporary conservatives for cozying up to fascism, but Winston Churchill was a conservative who, for all his many faults, despised Hitler and fought to keep Britain in the war against Nazi Germany, when it would have been very easy for Britain to leave Europe to its fate.

Gustav Stresemann, also a center-right leader, was Weimer Germany's greatest diplomat, who played a crucial role in stabilizing the Weimer economy and improving relations with France in the interwar period.

So it is possible for conservatives to be principled defenders of democracy - even if it's as rare as rooster's teeth since MAGA revealed many so-called 'conservatives' to be fascists in waiting.

Edited Wednesday at 09:09 PM by DocWatts

[Jacob Morres]

On 7/22/2025 at 6:22 AM, krockerman said:

A lot of left leaning people today even agree that Swedens situation is due to mass migration. 

 

okay but let me challenge you with this. how much of sweden's issues are actually due to mass migration and how much of the problems are a scapegoat on migrants? i wonder precisely that breakdown 

because i tend to notice that there is a lot of scapegoating, misdirected outrage and lots of misinformation that goes around  

Edited Wednesday at 09:53 PM by Jacob Morres

[thierry]

Making a distinction in your mind that liberals are somehow more conscious than conservatives is not serving the Truth. 

[Leo Gura]

@thierry Osama Bin Laden tips his hat to you approvingly with a cheeky smile.

[Emerald]

14 hours ago, Iblitan said:

@Leo Gura

What's with Leo recently parroting conservative elitist racist xenophobic views? I mean if someone with high consciousness like leo advocates such views is there hope for a filthy brown man like me? I didn't really choose to be born in a shithole. I definitely wish I wasn't. But if I am unwelcome in developed countries how do I get a good life? Am I completely doomed? If only genetically superior people get to become elites and have good lives, is there even a point for me to exist? If such views are true, why not bomb all shitholes out of existence to end the suffering of people like me and to prevent the suffering of future souls? You prevent the suffering of both the developed and the undeveloped. Maybe even end racism right? If there is no different undeveloped group to be racist to then you practically solved racism.

I was confused by what @Leo Gura said because I could interpret it two ways... or really four ways.

"Soon enough Swedes will be fucking aliens." could be interpreted as...

• Soon enough Swedes will be having sex with immigrants.
• Soon enough Swedes will be immigrants in their own country because immigrants will replace them. 
• Soon enough Swedes will be having sex with literal space aliens.
• Soon enough Swedes will become literal space aliens.

I think he meant the fourth one... but I thought (for a second) he could have meant the second one too.

Edited yesterday at 08:25 AM by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

I can't believe I have to explain alien sex to you people.

 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I can't believe I have to explain alien sex to you people.

 

Gotcha! I thought it was interpretation number 4... but it was actually interpretation number 3.

But at first, I read it as interpretation number 2... and for a split second, I was like "Oh no! They got to him!"