They are giving Luigi the death penalty

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Death penalty costs 7x more than imprisoning someone for life.

Welcome to yet another example to illustrate the control and capture of the state by money. This is the perverse dynamic at play in the US - that money controls the state rather than the other way round.  Why does it cost so much? Because liberal values are weaponized, and justice is commodified and milked by a extensive legal procedure enriching lawyers, courts, and the prison/legal-industrial complex.

Their are notorious cases where there is no moral ambiguity as to what the fate of the criminal should be. Serial killers, mass shooters etc. The entire point of the death penalty is to remove the irredeemable - those who have committed acts so heinous that there is zero moral ambiguity about their fate. And yet, the modern legal system creates artificial complexity where there should be none.

Ted Bundy dragged his case for a decade with countless legal moves. Legal moves that are in place due to liberal values - the hyper-focus on due process, endless appeals, and excessive legal protections that prioritize the criminal over the victim. This is the ideological obstruction of justice despite ample evidence of guilt, fed upon by capitalist greed. Liberal legal values can create inefficiencies that turn clear cut cases into million dollar spectacles.

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Welcome to yet another example to illustrate the control and capture of the state by money. This is the perverse dynamic at play in the US - that money controls the state rather than the other way round.  Why does it cost so much? Because liberal values are weaponized, and justice is commodified and milked by a extensive legal procedure enriching lawyers, courts, and the prison/legal-industrial complex.

Their are notorious cases where there is no moral ambiguity as to what the fate of the criminal should be. Serial killers, mass shooters etc. The entire point of the death penalty is to remove the irredeemable - those who have committed acts so heinous that there is zero moral ambiguity about their fate. And yet, the modern legal system creates artificial complexity where there should be none.

Ted Bundy dragged his case for a decade with countless legal moves. Legal moves that are in place due to liberal values - the hyper-focus on due process, endless appeals, and excessive legal protections that prioritize the criminal over the victim. This is the ideological obstruction of justice despite ample evidence of guilt, fed upon by capitalist greed. Liberal legal values can create inefficiencies that turn clear cut cases into million dollar spectacles.

Liberal states don't have a death penalty, that number is from Florida a conservative state.

Psycopathy is a mental disability. 

Edited February 25 by Elliott

[Clarence]

@Leo Gura Maybe it's easier for you to hold this position because you aren't extremely sensitive and empathetic.

I understand your position, and that society needs an important degree of strictness and order to function properly.

So I could fully agree with your perspective, but what holds me back is my sensitivity. I wouldn't feel fully at peace making the decision to apply the death penalty.

One thing is that it could create extensive suffering in the world—for example, for the family members of the person. People might still love their parent or their child, even after they become the worst murderers.

If this were to happen to the people I love the most, I would be extremely shocked, but I would also, I believe, feel resentful towards society if they were to kill my closest relative. I would feel like the direct victim of a crime that I didn’t commit (their crime).

What do you think about this aspect? Do you think it's fair?  

I would likely be capable of toughening up for the collective and the growth of society, if the death penalty in specific cases were the most conscious thing to do. But this still bugs me. What if it happened to someone I love?

This might not seem likely to happen to people like us, but for those who aren’t as lucky as we are, it happens. I’m not sure I’d be in favor of the death penalty if I were directly affected by it. Losing someone this way would hurt me so deeply in ways I can't even fathom.

There are more things than this that bother me about death penalty, but this is one of them.

It is very brutal to take someone's life, even if the convicted person is a murderer themselves.

[Something Funny]

I've been thinking about it more, and I think that if you are willing to take somebody's life, you should be ready to lose yours.

Still not sure if this idea should be implemented in the form of death penalty. My biggest concerns mistrials and corruption.

[Joshe]

What would Jesus do? 

[Basman]

@Leo Gura Going a bit off topic here but in relation to strictness, do you think corporal punishment of children has a place? Like, if they break a major rule? Like for example stealing money from their parents or assaulting other kids.

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Joshe said:

What would Jesus do? 

What did Jesus do?

[The Crocodile]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Open your mind to the value of strictness.

Strict your mind to the value of openness.

[The Crocodile]

5 hours ago, Joshe said:

What would Jesus do? 

He would have received the death penalty.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Joshe said:

What would Jesus do? 

Jesus killed a kid.

[PenguinPablo]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Jesus killed a kid.

This was before he became enlightened.

Give the kid a break!

[zazen]

15 hours ago, Elliott said:

Liberal states don't have a death penalty, that number is from Florida a conservative state.

Psycopathy is a mental disability. 

Conservative states still have to function within a broader legal framework that’s been shaped by decades of liberal legal values.

If psychopathy is a mental disability courts wouldn’t hold them fully responsible and without insanity defenses. They calculate and kill in cold blood, then attempt to evade consequences. 

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Conservative states still have to function within a broader legal framework that’s been shaped by decades of liberal legal values.

louisiana has never been librul

 

"Loyola University New Orleans

 

https://law2.loyno.edu › sites › default › files › death_penalty_press...

 

[PDF]New Study Shows Louisiana Death Penalty has $281 Million Price Tag

 

On average, Louisiana spends at least $15 million a year to maintain our capital punishment system. These costs include the expense of defense"

 

"Louisiana hasn’t Executed Anyone in 13 Years"

Quote

If psychopathy is a mental disability courts wouldn’t hold them fully responsible and without insanity defenses. They calculate and kill in cold blood, then attempt to evade consequences. 

And if the women weren't witches Puritans wouldn't have burned them alive, and if people weren't possessed by demons then priests wouldn’t do exorcisms.

https://www.news.vcu.edu/article/The_centuriesold_practice_of_exorcism_is_on_the_rise_Why_now

 

Edited February 26 by Elliott

[gettoefl]

Everyone here is complicit in uncountable murders carried out in their name by governments and their proxies.

Your widespread murdering is an uncomfortable truth you rather ignore, for example wars fought under dubious pretences, economic sanctions that lead to mass suffering and starvation, the overlooking of exploitative labor practices, environmental policies resulting in deaths, healthcare systems that deny life-saving treatment to those deemed unfit.

[integral]

When an all we have is for-profit prisons the death penalty seems like a reasonable option.

@Leo Gura Finland Open Prisons, Man serving a life sentence for murder. Rehabilitation program. Hes basically "free". 

Edited February 26 by integral

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, integral said:

Finland Prisons, Man serving a life sentence for murder. Rehabilitation program. Hes basically "free". 

Yeah, I've seen it.

Finland should give murderers free blowjobs while they're at it.

Good fascist meme material.

Edited February 26 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

On 2/24/2025 at 11:46 AM, Emerald said:

The presence of the death penalty is a good litmus test for how corrupt a given justice system is because the paradigm that the death penalty operates off of is incompatible with justice.

Death is not a punishment. 

 

That depends on perspective.  Why is death so much worse than life in prison without parole?  Let's say your daughter was killed by a psychopath killer with no hope for rehabilitation.  Would you want him to stay alive for the next 30 years or would you want him gone?  He isn't doing anything but taking up taxpayers money and living and breathing and "finding God" which is a load of crap because he is a psychopath.   While your daughter is dead..stolen from you in the golden years. Doesn't this bother you at all?  It's ok to be human, you know.  Sometimes that's OK.  But eh, if you are so against the death penalty that you want us to feed him and allow him to read books for twenty years then OK.  It's not humane to take a life but it was OK for him to.  And it's OK to imprison him for life.   It's meant to provide justice to the families.  Not all families have to believe in forgiveness.  Or lack of violence.  It isnt higher consciousness necessarily.  And if you believe it is then why is it?  Please provide and include if this would include your religious beliefs because often we turn to God would want us to forgive.....but to me that would be a narrow minded notion. And if not for God than why?  Because someone said so? Personally I think if you kill another human being you've crossed a line there ain't no coming back from.

Edited February 26 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

On 2/24/2025 at 11:50 AM, Leo Gura said:

To me it's not a punishment, it's a solution. A clean solution to the very annoying problem of juggling drains on society. If you have a cancer cell, you kill it so it stops leeching off the healthy organs.

Some of you lefties are not considering how annoying it is to constantly have to babysit bad actors. It's a very ugly job. And you expect someone else to do it for you for 50 years while you go out and have your fun.

If you had to babysit and feed a psychopath for 50 years, maybe you'd understand why death is appropriate.

this sounds colder than calling it a punishment

 

 

[puporing]

But you guys are kind of operating on this assumption that "souls" cannot be redeemed. At some point they have to be redeemed and someone/something has to redeem them, it could be while they are alive or while they are in spirit form. If nobody redeems them to a higher state of consciousness then they are stuck in darkness. The end result is actually more "crimes" if they do not return to more light.

So it could be something in the spiritual realm to alter their spirit, or in the physical realm that induce such changes (that is not totally cut off with spiritual).

Edited February 26 by puporing

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, puporing said:

But you guys are kind of operating on this assumption that "souls" cannot be redeemed. At some point they have to be redeemed and someone/something has to redeem them, it could be while they are alive or while they are in spirit form. If nobody redeems them to a higher state of consciousness then they are stuck in darkness. The end result is actually more "crimes" if they do not return to more light.

So it could be something in the spiritual realm to alter their spirit, or in the physical realm that induce such changes (that is not totally cut off with spiritual).

Souls are completely imaginary.  Souls are something you as God dreamed up.  Along with Jesus and Yahweh.  And Mohammed.  But you are the infinite God imagining all souls.   Imagining everything as the Infinite, formless Mind that you are.  Yeah you are Spirit and Divinity because you are Infinite.  But souls is something you created.   You're still stuck in religion.