Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

The chemical is a jar of farts that you open and huff.

[UnbornTao]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

The chemical is a jar of farts that you open and huff.

Should have said that sooner. 

[aurum]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Ask: What is an effect? What is a practice? And what is awakening if not an effect, perception, experience, insight, change of state, good idea, or feeling?

I don't see how this relates to the question.

Awakening is a state of consciousness. Practice is anything you do that is aimed at creating that state. We call those specific things practices, because somethings turn out to be more effective than others for awakening.

Sticking your thumb up your butt is not effective at creating the awakened state. This is empirical. Therefore, we don't teach sticking your thumb up your butt for awakening.

What is empirically useful for awakening: meditation, psychedelics, certain kinds of yoga, self-inquiry, etc.

So the question is, do you deny the empiricism of how these practices generate awakening?

You can argue "it's all Consciousness", and that's true. But it's also true that different practices have different levels of effectiveness for awakening within Consciousness.

Psychedelics happen to be a particularly potent dream tool. 

[Eskilon]

58 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The chemical is a jar of farts that you open and huff.

I imagine a closed room filled with the most potent fart known to man.

Edited yesterday at 12:08 AM by Eskilon

[Leo Gura]

The jar is like opening the Ark from Raiders of the Lost Ark 

[CARDOZZO]

Fart Awakening ™

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Should have said that sooner. 

I had you at farts?

[Alexop]

Of course, that can be the other possibility. Farts from the father of fat fucks that will stink so bad that you'll basically be brain dead for 3 days, leading to an NDE. Then you'll wake up and tell others you saw 20 bodies laying unconscious and you felt you are all of them at once. Boom Fart Awakening.

[Nemra]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The chemical is a jar of farts that you open and huff.

I imagined that each time you had an awakening, you stored the farts in a jar. 

The whole fart in the jar is too potent now!

[Jordan of the Shire]

This may seem like an odd time to say this given the fart-gistics

I'm really impressed with this forum. The level of awareness and maturity in discussing topics is refreshing.

[Jordan of the Shire]

@Leo Gura distilled farts from awakening

[Miguel1]

22 minutes ago, Jordan of the Shire said:

This may seem like an odd time to say this given the fart-gistics

I'm really impressed with this forum. The level of awareness and maturity in discussing topics is refreshing.

Welcome to the forum. It wasn’t always like this.

The forum had to go extensive transformation of banning all trolls and extremely low quality posters, and switching to a system where new members are not accepted immediately, to get to where we are.

This way, it also attracts and encourages the higher quality members to also stay and to be active.

[UnbornTao]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I had you at farts?

I mean, obviously.

[UnbornTao]

@Miguel1 Our farts smell so much better.

Spiritual farts.

[lostingenosmaze]

🤖 My farts are better than Leo's farts 🤖

[lostingenosmaze]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

switching to a system where new members are not accepted immediately

Really? That news to me. So newest members being added from weeks or months ago wasn't a bug. Posting here really do be a privilege.

[UnbornTao]

22 hours ago, aurum said:

I don't see how this relates to the question.

Awakening is a state of consciousness. Practice is anything you do that is aimed at creating that state. We call those specific things practices, because somethings turn out to be more effective than others for awakening.

Sticking your thumb up your butt is not effective at creating the awakened state. This is empirical. Therefore, we don't teach sticking your thumb up your butt for awakening.

What is empirically useful for awakening: meditation, psychedelics, certain kinds of yoga, self-inquiry, etc.

So the question is, do you deny the empiricism of how these practices generate awakening?

You can argue "it's all Consciousness", and that's true. But it's also true that different practices have different levels of effectiveness for awakening within Consciousness.

Psychedelics happen to be a particularly potent dream tool. 

State comes and goes. Our problem is how we're holding our conception of these things, and not knowing that (or when) they are conceptions.

If we look, we'll find that we may well not know what is meant by consciousness, truly. "State of consciousness" - from the way you talk - is what I'd just call a state of mind, cognition, an experience of some kind.

It's rather essential to the discussion, as it takes a stab at the heart of the matter. You may well think that Ramana getting drunk, following a certain breathing pattern, taking some drug (etc., etc.) would either "increase" or "decrease" his "consciousness." In other words, as with many people, it's assumed that awakening is some sort of experience or state - a great feeling, a state of bliss and peace, a shift in our awareness, a new perception of some kind. I follow your logic, and it sounds reasonable, but it is based on flawed assumptions. Like I said, maybe even death doesn't really make a difference for Ramana, so what are we talking about? Can you see that this 'thing' can't be an experience, state, and so on?

It is impossible to "find" awakening in your experience, which is the place you'll look - and at the same time it is also possible, but this possibility is not logical or known. No practice or action does it. It is not a conditioned experience. Experience is all we have and know of - are aware of. What you talk about is stuff to do while waiting to make a leap. And what causes the leap? Mu? Perhaps not the best question.

If you see someone promising enlightenment, or a "path" to awakening, I'd be wary of them - especially if they guarantee it. Most likely they're selling what people want, which is a good-sounding, pleasing, hopeful story, and as so-called spiritual people, we're no strangers to such things.

Actually, just look for the other threads. Be one of the first here to put them to use.

Edited 4 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Lila9]

I would like to add some notes regarding what Leo disagrees with feminism:

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Overarching narrative of an oppressive patriarchy. Everything framed through the monolithic paradigm of patriarchy.

The patriarchal paradigm is as deeply integrated into society as materialism and rationality; everything is viewed through those lenses and, obviously, it is untruthful. It is alive within our consciousness, we perceive reality through its lens, often unquestioned.

It is a hierarchical and oppressive system that was built for the biology of males by males. Its oppression is deep. It is not only women who are oppressed by men; it is the masculine oppressing the feminine, rather than coexisting with it as it should. It is the oppression of life, creativity, love, nature, mystery, spirituality, and everything that makes life whole.

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That men and women are equal in biology or psychology. That you can't even distinguish men and women.

Feminism is not about insisting that men and women are equal in biology. 

This is a simplification based on a lack of understanding of feminism.

Of course, there are biological differences between males and females, which are obvious.

The point of feminism is not to deny them but to separate sex from gender.

Sex is a biological truth. Gender is a social construct and is not as rigid as sex.

If gender were as rigid as sex, all males and females would be born men and women with all the patriarchal expectations of manhood and womanhood built in.

But in reality, males and females are not born as men and women they are socialized into these roles.

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That men and women should be treated equally and have equal expectations.

Men and women should be treated with the same human dignity and respect, first and foremost.

They should be given the same opportunities to be who they want to be.

However, men and women have different biological needs, and this should be understood and valued.

Patriarchal society is fitted to male biology as a default. Whether it is medicine, design, clinical research, safety testing, work rhythms, urban planning, public space, protective equipment, tools, default user assumptions, or social policies, this pattern appears repeatedly.

Conservatives love to emphasize that "traditional" (oppressive) gender roles are from God and therefore natural, while never actually making society more suitable for women’s actual needs and biology.

 

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That matriarchy is a solution to our problems.

What problems are you talking about?

If you are talking about modern problems such as a toxic productivity culture that leads people to burnout and even suicide, social isolation and a mental health crisis epidemic, environmental and ecological damage, the invisibility of care and domestic unpaid labor, and economic inequality then a matriarchal society, which is more care-centered, could definitely help resolve those.

Again, matriarchy doesn’t mean women are at the top exploiting men (something men often fear, because they know this is exactly what patriarchy does to women hahaha), but rather a society that is centered around care.

Have you ever asked yourself how we can create a better society? Where does it start? With children.

What if you taught children from an early age all the important lessons you teach here, rather than teaching them to become another pawn in the system and another money-making machine for the few rich?

If we want to create a better society, we should put most of our focus, love and care on them because they are the foundation.

Again, this may not happen soon but we are in a transition to a more matriarchal society. 

Patriarchy is currently in collapse, this collapse may take a few more decades or even centuries but this is inevitable.

 

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 That men's objectification of women and men's psychology is merely bad patriarchal social conditioning.

There is a difference between sexual attraction and desiring a good-looking person without dehumanizing them, and seeing the other as merely an object or a machine.

Do you think that men biologically see women as merely objects for consumption, without any soul or humanity? I don’t believe this is a natural way for humans to look at other humans.

If we can perceive humanity and even “soul” in animals, trees, and objects, we can certainly do so in each other while also experiencing sexual desire.

Seeing another human as merely an object is not a natural condition; it is a learned behavior, shaped by culture and environment.

 

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That women are equally capable to men. That women are as capable as men at war, combat, policing, construction, sports, engineering, leadership, etc.

Women (biological females) obviously have different hormones.

We have the menstrual cycle, which men do not have, and this certainly affects mood and energy levels. It is also true that men generally have greater muscle strength compared to women.

However, cognitively, women are not inferior to men in any domain. The main thing that limits women is misogyny and bias.

Throughout history, men have succeeded only because of the invisible labor of women behind the scenes. Behind every great man, there is an even greater woman.

Women also have some physical strengths and advantages that men do not, such as higher pain tolerance in certain contexts (for example, due to childbirth).

Women have always performed physical labor, carrying loads, working in agriculture, and caring for children. There has never been a period in history in which women did not engage in physical work.

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That women should strive to be more like men, more masculine, more in leadership roles. Turning women into men.
 

 

Feminism is not about turning women into men or turning men into women.

It is first and foremost about the liberation of women (and men) from patriarchal, narrowed expectations that block them as humans. This is a soul liberation movement.

The first wave of feminism was actually about women striving to have the same opportunities as men (voting, owning possessions, working in paid jobs); however, this is not about becoming masculine but having the freedom of choice.

People with a shallow understanding of feminism confuse it with liberal feminism. Liberal feminism is not a real, distinct ideology in itself; it is often presented as a strawman version of feminism invented by critics and intertwined with capitalism. Liberal feminism is sometimes argued to be patriarchy in disguise.

The only feminism is radical feminism. This is its true core. There is nothing in feminism about making women like men, this is a liberal capitalist invention.

Even concervatives try to colonize feminism.

The truth is that in a patriarchal society, we are not safe to be feminine.

We are not safe to be creative, authentic, spiritual, and loving in our being because we may be exploited or would not survive in the system.

This is the patriarchy, which makes us more masculine and denies us our femininity, which we truly crave especially the wild woman and the witch archetype that we long to integrate collectively as women but which is demonized in patriarchy.

Additionally, no one in the world can convince me that we are not capable of being leaders and strategic thinkers like men, and even better, because we have greater emotional mastery.

Even studies show that women are better leaders than men. In all the leadership measures.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinkruse/2023/03/31/new-research-women-more-effective-than-men-in-all-leadership-measures/

 

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traditional gender roles are merely a social construct and can and should be changed or equalized.

The existence of gender roles may be efficient for society in fulfilling its purposes however, they are not natural or rigid and can vary between societies. 

In patriarchal societies, gender roles are such that men are above women; they enjoy more privilege, freedom, and protection.  

This is not a natural construct but a human-created system of gender roles designed to benefit patriarchy. There is nothing natural about it. The only natural thing is for women to have babies. How those babies are raised (in a nuclear family or a community), with how many people, which people, how resources are allocated, and which behaviors are valued or not in each gender are all constructed by society.

 

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That people are born as blank slates and can be socially molded into any gender, any role. That gender roles are somehow arbitrary and could be otherwise.

People aren’t born as blank slates, they are born with their own temperament and personality traits that feel relatively stable. 

However, they are not born with gender roles and expectations they learn them.

 

But children do have their own preferences, and socialization into gender roles does not always come easily to many.

 

For example, I struggled with my socialization, and it made me frustrated. 

I hated that I had to be a “good girl,” which meant being nice and pleasant, downplaying my intelligence, and constantly caring about my appearance.

I always had my own temperament, opinions, and a unique view of myself and others, which I couldn’t fit into this narrow box of gender roles.

As a result, I often felt flawed and confused. I know I am not the only one who has struggled most of us do.

Maybe the problem is not with gender roles themselves, but with the narrowness of them. Maybe there should be many acceptable ways to be a man or a woman, depending on the temperament of the individual, not only one narrow and rigid way which suits a few people.

 

 

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That men are the source of our problems. That masculinity is bad or problematic.

The problem is patriarchy, not men. Yes, it is a system that is built for men, but it harms men as well.

 

The criticism is about toxic masculinity, not masculinity itself.

 

The fact that many people cannot differentiate between masculinity and toxic masculinity which men often perceive as the only form of masculinity, and therefore feel is an “attack on masculinity” is very unsettling.

 

It is also unsettling that when women express real issues like unsafety, femicide, rape, and predatory behavior from men, some men perceive this as an attack on them or their masculinity rather than as a real problem to address.

 

Imagine if it were reversed and women were raping and killing men, and when men complained about it, women perceived it as an attack on femininity rather than actually addressing the issue.

 

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inequality can be measured simplistically by looking at gender ratios in jobs, or annual salaries, and the like.

Still there is an inequality no matter how you rationalize it.

 

 

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That women are victims. Women need to be more responsible for sexual abuse. Women are not innocent victims in all this. Women need to be responsible for being attracted to abusive and corrupt men.

If women are socialized from childhood to be pleasant, nice, attentive, and pleasing, it can make them more vulnerable to harm from men who are socialized in the opposite way.

There are definitely measures that women can take to reduce the risk of sexual abuse, such as education about patriarchy, awareness of how some men may perceive women, and trusting their intuition. Without it women, such as men uphold the patriarchy. 

However, men are still more accountable for their behavior because they are the ones who act like predators.

Some men coerce women into sex, manipulate them in various ways, or love-bomb them, often targeting young and vulnerable women, but not only them.

This is why I believe that women need to assume that any man they meet could be a potential abuser until proven otherwise and maintain very high standards for men’s character. No one in society often teaches women this. Instead, women are frequently taught even by other women that having a male partner is their ultimate goal in life, regardless of who they are, to understand men, give them chances, ignore poor behavior, and try to fix them.

When women set standards for men’s behavior, they are often seen as delusional, crazy, hysterical, or overly picky.

Nothing justifies sexual abuse. Men should be held accountable for it. It is their responsibility to treat women better. 

Also men can also be attracted to toxic women who use them like rags. I have seen it a lot hahahaha. 

Some people are attracted to toxic people, regardless of gender.

 

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Overemphasis on identity politics. That it is an absolute good when a woman is elected or hired, regardless of other factors. There are plenty of corrupt, ignorant, incompetent women in the world.

Sure, there are plenty of curropted and selfish women as well. 

The point of feminism is that there are many competent women who are not elected or hired for the mere reason that they are women and not men.

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The post-modernist aspects of feminism which deny the existence of truth, human nature, biology, gender.

I actually see the opposite: the breaking of the illusions of patriarchy regarding gender, biology, and human nature.

 

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That women enjoy privileges which men do not, and this needs to be understood and acknowledged.

 

I would love to hear some examples of privileges women enjoy that men don't in society. Maybe I am not aware of something.

   

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The simplistic attitude of "Believe all women". Women do sometimes lie and distort reality. Deplatforming people, canceling people, demonizing people without any due process, just based on accusations, is wrong. Men must have a way of defending themselves against slander.

Not all women are saints who never lie or distort reality.

However, women are not always listened to or taken seriously enough when they report abuse or sexual crimes because of male bias. 

Women can be genuinely angry or emotional because of the pain and humiliation, and men may not take them seriously, saying, “Oh, she is just overreacting” or “She is dramatic.”

In contrast, when men report abuse or crimes against them, they are often taken more seriously, even if they express anger or emotion, because society tends to listen to men more. 

  

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That men need specialized advice and training on how to be masculine. Feminizing men is not a solution. Turning men into women is a big problem.

Holding men accountable for predatory and abusive behavior and asking for empathy and genuine connection is not turning men into women.

It is turning bad men into good men. The fact that many men view being a good man as being like a woman shows how deeply they perceive toxic masculinity as the real or only form of masculinity.

 

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That women have equal orientation towards truth as men.

I agree. Men are often governed by conformity to other men, their ego and lust which distorts their perception of reality and truth.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Lila9

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Lila9

https://www.instagram.com/p/DXpvu9xAKNm/?igsh=MWxwY3JpZ3B4dTg5NA==

Thanks for your post above. 

[Magnanimous]

@Leo Gura Is manifesting real? I've seen you say the world of assumptions Neville Goddard talks about is transhuman. But you do recommend LoA books on your booklist. And what about all those people who get results?
I've actually spent $1700+ on learning it, and most of that was on a premium program by a new (but SUPER SUCCESSFUL GUY) on the space called Nero Knowledge, who works with entrepreneurs, athletes, people making big bucks, and is getting lots of testimonials from them, from his other programs, and even on his youtube comments.. Now I'm worried all my learning and money spent is pointless.

Edited 1 hour ago by Magnanimous