Israel / Palestine News Thread

[royce]

28 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

In such a Place, as sad as it is, the only way to achieve peace is through Overpowering and destroying your opponents

You will not achieve peace and the war is long

[royce]

@Ayham  https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1840184222897541454

 

 

Edited September 29, 2024 by royce

[royce]

https://chomskypc.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/august-15-2006-chomsky-my-dinner-with-hassan/

 

 

[Vercingetorix]

 

 

[Vercingetorix]

@royce So what is your peace proposal? how do you achieve peace when dealing with Red stage?

[royce]

38 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

@royce So what is your peace proposal? how do you achieve peace when dealing with Red stage?

Firstly, I disagree with your tone. Anyone listening to you would think that the Palestinians just landed from Mars and that you were forced to deal with them, which is the opposite of what actually happened.

Secondly, the idea that everything was fine before October 7 is outdated. With the internet, anyone can easily find out what the situation for Palestinians has been like over the past 100 years. I’m not sure who you’re trying to mislead on this forum.

Thirdly, the way you talk about the people of the Middle East, clearly aimed at a Western audience, paints them as if they’re savages and only you know how to handle them. This is a trivial perspective, and the Palestinian who defends his family  barefoot in Gaza is more developed than you and your entire country. and I am genuinely unbiased, but you behave like a tribe.

 

So, to correct your question, it should be: How do you achieve peace with my "red-stage" country when dealing with "red-stage" people?

Give these people their fucken rights 

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

Anytime Israel is giving away land, anytime it seeks peace, anytime Israel is showing that it cares about human lives (like the Prisoner exchange deal of Gilad Shalit where thousands of terrorists were released for one soldier) it is seen as a weakness. 

It corresponds with 1993 when a huge terror wave came after Oslo Agreement, with 2000 when 2nd Intifada right after Camp David and when Hezbollah kidnapped 3 soldiers after Lebanon withdrawal, with 2003 when there was a rise in suicide bombing after Geneva negotiations, with 2005 when hamas came to power and Gaza has redicalized after Israel withdrawal from Gaza, with 2006 when Hezbollah initiated a kidnapping of 3 soldiers completely unprovoked what lead to 2nd Lebanon war, with 2007 when was a rise in terror after Anapolis negotiations, 2008 when was a rise in rockekts from Gaza after Doha conversations, 2010 when was a rise in terror after the negotiations, in 2013-14 there was more terror during the negotiations, with 2023 when oct7 came after years of giving money to hamas and letting thousands of Gazans to work in Israel freely daily for years and many of them were participate in oct7.

Edited September 29, 2024 by Nivsch

[How to be wise]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I know, but what were his beliefs and positions? Was he a genocidal lunatic?

Hezbollah were a party in Lebanon’s government, so not exactly against democracy. 

[hundreth]

11 hours ago, royce said:

So, to correct your question, it should be: How do you achieve peace with my "red-stage" country when dealing with "red-stage" people?

Give these people their fucken rights 

The issue is that the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis won't accept anything but 100% of the land. 

How do you solve an issue where either side won't accept any compromise? 

[Nivsch]

http://en.cis.org.il/

[royce]

53 minutes ago, hundreth said:

The issue is that the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis won't accept anything but 100% of the land. 

 

The claim that Palestinians will only accept 100% of the land is a myth; they are in a weak position. In reality, Netanyahu has no intention of negotiating with them. Instead, his strategy involves bombing and invading southern Lebanon, targeting Iranian-aligned forces in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, and further normalizing relations with authoritarian regimes in the Middle East. He intends to carry out exactly what he stated at the United Nations.

[Karmadhi]

This thread is 174 pages now.

I see as much chance of the discussions on this thread as I do on the Palestine Israel conflict being permanently resolved now.

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, royce said:

The claim that Palestinians will only accept 100% of the land is a myth; they are in a weak position. In reality, Netanyahu has no intention of negotiating with them. Instead, his strategy involves bombing and invading southern Lebanon, targeting Iranian-aligned forces in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, and further normalizing relations with authoritarian regimes in the Middle East. He intends to carry out exactly what he stated at the United Nations.

Well, I hope you're right. Because there are many quotes of Palestinian leaders expressing as much.

[zazen]

16 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

are you just copying fake news here? nowhere in the paper attached it is stated anything similar to  "The era of conflict with Hezbollah has ended"

My bad, I can’t read Hebrew and trusted the post. What does it state?

Whatever it may be, the point is that though a tactical win can be celebrated to boost morale it shouldn’t be viewed as a decisive blow and the beginning of a peaceful Middle East that Israel heroically ushered in. That’s just some of the sentiment I’ve seen online ie Jared Kushner's tweet. It is definetely symbolic and a huge hit on Hezbollah, including the aura they’ve built around being ahead in counter-intelligence. 

Thing is, Hezbollah isn’t just a militia anymore but an institution embedded within Lebanons politics and society. It’s evolved beyond its origins as they’ve pledged to be defenders of the Shia community in Lebanon which makes up almost a third of its population and who predominate in the South. As long as Shias in Lebanon exist, they’ll exist, and have a mechanism to continuously renew their ranks in the face of a perceived threat from Israel.

If Israel thinks the moment is ripe off the back of this to invade Lebanon or start attacking it the way they have Gaza - I’m not sure how that will turn out. Hezbollah have thousands of miles of tunnels and it will be a game of guerrilla warfare in their favour. In almost a year Hamas are still operating in Gaza with limited communication, supply chains etc. On top of that, Israel will have to deal with the global backlash and made to look like the aggressors yet again just as with Gaza. Maybe this was the strategy of Hezbollah, to tarnish Israel’s image and lure them into the den.

Edited September 29, 2024 by zazen

[hundreth]

12 minutes ago, zazen said:

Thing is, Hezbollah isn’t just a militia anymore but an institution embedded within Lebanons politics and society. It’s evolved beyond its origins as they’ve pledged to be defenders of the Shia community in Lebanon which makes up almost a third of its population and who predominate in the South. As long as Shias in Lebanon exist they’ll exist and have a mechanism to continuously renew their ranks in the face of a perceived threat from Israel.

What exactly is the threat from Israel?

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have. The only time Israel becomes involved in Lebanon are when there are groups firing at them from the south of Lebanon. In the past, it was the PLO. Now, it is Hezbollah.

How come Jordan and Egypt don't need an anti Israel terrorist group hijacking their borders?

Edited September 29, 2024 by hundreth

[Raze]

 

[zazen]

11 minutes ago, hundreth said:

What exactly is the threat from Israel?

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have. The only time Israel becomes involved in Lebanon are when there are groups firing at them from the south of Lebanon. In the past, it was the PLO. Now, it is Hezbollah.

That’s why I said perceived threat, whether they are or not - Israel can be perceived that way due to their history of having occupied that part of Lebanon for 18 years. The 2006 war is still fairly recent enough to be used to fuel this perception.

Also, there are daily airspace violations by Israel breaching Lebanons airspace and sovereignty. The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) and the Lebanese government have repeatedly reported these violations but nothing is enforced or changes. And these incursions go into the hundreds annually which contribute to the perception of a potential threat.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/09/huge-scale-and-impact-of-israeli-incursions-over-lebanon-skies-revealed-research-overflights

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Vaush’s takes here were perfect.

 

[Vercingetorix]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

My bad, I can’t read Hebrew and trusted the post. What does it state?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have.

They do and have.

Hardcore Zionists believe part of southern Lebanon belongs to Israel. Their plan is to ethnically cleanse that region and eventually take it over. This has always been their plan from the 1940s. They also plan to take parts of Jordan.

Watch the documentaries I posted on my blog and you will see their real plans.

Edited September 29, 2024 by Leo Gura