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So please remember: it's not about tolerating. And by the way: the Neti-Neti method has helped me BIG TIME with my emotions.

I thought about the question "Who am I?" and did the Neti Neti guided meditation by Leo with great effect. I thought I knew the answer, but knowing that enlightment isn't rational knowing, I started my first session of self-inquiry. My thought process in a nutshell: I very quickly scanned through the body and with the knowledge of if my body parts were changed piece by piece I would be still me (sort of a Ship of Theseus story), I realized that I am not the body, with the exeption of my brain which has to have the same neuron connections as "my old" brain. With a very similar process of thinking I discovered that I am not "my" experiences. I found one experience which I couldn't say I would exist without: my birth. Here I wasted around 5 minutes thinking that this birth experience I am looking for is the one when I experienced the "real world" for the first time. I realized that the moment I am looking for is when I started experiencing life in my mother's womb. What can I pinpoint? - I asked myself. I am not the human being - this thing could experience life in a body of a turtle, any time, any place, so I am not linked to time and place. I am not the first sound - I would be still alive without it. I am not the "touch" - I could exist without it. This is where I started becoming frustated. What is it that makes me me? I believed the answer before: consciousness, awereness, or presence. The breakthrough was this question: If there is nothing sensory to experience, what would I be? "I created" a term for it: ability to experience. Again, I believed what Mooji said: "You are awereness without the concept of awereness". I asked myself the question: Would the "ability to experience" exist without the concept of it? "My" answer was a definite yes. Here is where I am stuck. Thoughts can only work in concepts. Without a concept, I couldn't know myself. I am looking for an experience with which I can "shut off" my mind and become one with the experience itself, so there is only the "ability to experience", which I can only think is the true I, remains. Did I fuck up? What should I do next? Namaste: Torkys

Can you state exactly the technique you're using please? I understand "leo's technique" to mean his neti-neti guided method (which I have on mp3), but not sure Im right. And do you close your eyes? thanks

feel free to develop and use these basic ideas as you please yell at me if I'm crazy, too. first is - like the neti neti method, the not this not that - but instead, "and what?" - hold something in your mind, some thought or some sensation or whatever, and say "and what" to ask your self, "sure that is This, but what else is also This?" The second is - "what duality?" where - oh, it's self explanatory. Just try asking yourself "what duality?" - it's fun like, wait, what duality? there is no duality! be careful, meditation may lead to confusion. wait - what duality?

Neti Neti is a Sanskrit expression which means "not this, not this", or "neither this, nor that" "Who am I?" is not really a question because it has no answer to it; it is unanswerable. It is a device, not a question. It is used as a mantra. When you constantly inquire inside: "Who am I? Who am I?" you are not waiting for an answer. Your mind will supply many answers; all those answers have to be rejected. Your mind will say: "You are the essence of life. You are the eternal soul. You are divine," and so on and so forth. All those answers have to be rejected:neti neti -- one has to go on saying: "Neither this nor that." When you have denied all the possible answers that the mind can supply and devise, when the question remains absolutely unanswerable, a miracle happens: suddenly the question also disappears. When all the answers have been rejected, the question has no props, no supports inside to stand on any more. It simply flops, it collapses, it disappears. When the question also has disappeared, then you know. But that knowing is not an answer: it is an existential experience. Nothing can be said about it, or whatever will be said will be wrong. To say anything about it is to falsify it. It is the ultimate mystery, inexpressible, indefinable. No word is adequate enough to describe it.

If you could do a shorter and just guided version of the 'neti neti' video, that would be so helpful. That's the only tool so far, which helped me to pass my arising fear in the process. Thank you?

@Brivido you should watch ALL of Leo's enlightenment series. Also one of his videos in the series describes the Hindu Neti Neti method. One thing you will discover hopefully is that you are not your body or mind. The first step is where you make the transformation from identifying with body and mind.....then in the next higher state of consciousness you become the witness of body and mind. There are more stages culminating in God Consciousness.

@Paradigm Self inquiry, the Neti Neti method, made the biggest difference in neurosis.

Is it more like a "neti neti" approach like this one?

I know I told you I totally agree with the neti-neti method and self enquiry (or maybe I didn't tell you). But this does not mean that everything is not you. Every single thing one by one is not you, but Everything together? Why do you not believe about the end point of non-duality if you follow nonduality teachers? Not that you have to believe, but we're having a forum conversation, so I don't want to circlejerk around

@aryberry Yeah I think that's the point of Neti Neti. You play a game of whack-a-mole when a false concept of self comes up until the realization happens that there is no correct mole. Dig it.

I'm having difficulty understanding the neti neti method I'm watching leo's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq4NDMNDzSs&t=3s and honestly it seems as if Leo keeps trying to tell us that there is something which is there, and... um, well. um, idk what to say. there's nothing to say... there are a few things which... traditionally, in certain circumstances I've used in some way to identify a self that is there just as a manner of reference. but I've honestly never held a "true" concept of self. I've literally just never imagined a self in the world. I imagine the world but it is not with a self. if there is anything which could be called a self, it is kind of like... a dimensionless camera that looks outward? lol what a description tho. there's just no holding onto this as a concept. and I just... It's such an obvious thing in my oppinion, that I just can't believe that this is what we're supposed to find. there's really nothing exciting about it. it's kind of dumb really, and useless. why are there all these people like leo and random enlightened monks who act as if there's some glorious realization to be had? it's... not that... lol... idk.. what to say... there's nothing to really say about it. and the thing is it isn't just in the self either it's kind of.. every where. some not-thing which isn't really there but there's... "space" for it. it's a weird thing I try to capture sometimes and get amused at its... nonbeing.. it shows up most often when you try to separate things apart really. idk. anyway, I'm not gonna try the neti neti method after all, because I just don't understand what it is. "not this not that" what is the point of trying to imagine this or that if it's already obviously not this and not that? in fact by doing the method itself you imply there is something... really it seems as if the only real way to do the neti neti method is to not do it 'cause it certainly isn't that lol. it isn't "it" either. eh, I guess I can understand why monks seem to find... amusement.. but idk. doesn't seem that amusing to me. 'cause it isn't amusing lol. - I guess the neti neti method could be fun in this way lol. but still it's like... Idk. Idk what to say. so maybe I shouldn't say.

It is odd, I don't really think I have much anxieties anymore. I mean occasionally if I am focused on something such that I am not self-aware, sometimes I can get worked up with stress or anxiety, but if I take a step back and become aware of this and the situation, it dissipates fairly quickly and evenly. I guess there are some things which cause stress. (I used to have too much anxiety, to the point it kept me indoors - so I spent a few years to work on that, already.) I don't think I will contemplate anxiety this weekend tho, maybe some time in the future, I don't want to multitask my focus on self improvement too much. But I have been thinking of trying the Neti-Neti technique. I will have at least one session this weekend. I will also contemplate focus, and motivation. I have not had much of a habit of sitting meditation, I mostly work via mindfulness in application, being mindful while working on a task or while walking. Actually, now I am actually thinking I will make it a plan this week to purposefully do certain tasks I am avoiding as part of my "meditation" journey this weekend I am also considering skipping media sites like this one for saturday and sunday, but am not sure yet. It could serve as a break from the high-focus work I will be doing. So actually, nevermind, I'm likely to be More active this weekend hehe! Maybe next time I have a fasting period it will be a good time to be technology free.

@aryberry Meditation will be done in shifts of 30-60 minutes with breaks. Mindfulness practice and practicing diffusing awareness. Both. Also, Neti Neti method for self-inquiry. For journaling, I will probably do some CBT. I'll write down thoughts that induce anxiety, shame, and fixation. Then question them and write more reasonable or more expanded alternatives. I have to work a little bit on Saturday and also go to the gym so I can shower.

@username When comparing spiritual teachings, you have to be extremely careful about terminology and language use. Terms like "logic", "free will", "God", "consciousness", "mind", "the self", "you/me/I", could have 180 degree difference in meanings. You have to look at the context they are being used in. Yes, you could say there is a certain "logic" to God and reality. But that's just a manner of speech. Like I could say there's a certain logic to operating a Windows PC, or a certain logic to playing beer pong, or a certain logic to psychedelic trips, or a certain logic to meditation, or a certain logic to suicide bombers. But that's a very loose use of that word. Yes, there is a certain logic to the Neti Neti method, where you realize that if you're having an experience, it cannot be you. To your other point, I noticed that his understanding of Buddhism is very limited. And his criticism of the Neo's saying they don't exist also fails to address their true meaning. When the Neo's say you don't exist, they mean the personal human self, not the Absolute self. The Neo's are teaching from the point of view of the ego, whereas Vedanta teaches from the point of view of the Absolute. It actually makes a lot of sense to teach from the ego's point of view, because the student is identified with ego. If you tell the student he exists, he's likely assume, "Yeah, of course I exist. I'm this body/mind right here. I got it! Duh!" But when you tell the student, "You don't exist!!!" he immediately gets scared and put on the spot. Now he has to come up with evidence for his body/mind identification, which he starts to see is impossible. And that creates an opening. James is a great teacher, but he suffers a bit from being a Vedanta hardliner. He feels old-school Vedanta is the ultimate teaching. Well, that's a relative judgment. And it certainly won't be true for all his students. For example, I was frustrated by his lack of giving actual self-inquiry technique. All that talking turns into mental masturbation very quickly without a clear, explicit practice method.

@LRyan Looks great! ? There aren't too many methods. Just means she's versatile and, if that's her profession, she should be. It would clearly be an improvement from that last one. Dialectical Behavior Therapy and Mindfulness mean this chick will totally be down with spirituality and expanding the mind to heal. PS wtf is existential therapy? The Neti Neti Method? I wanna do it!

In honor of Leo's birthday, I am going to raise my consciousness by doing the Neti Neti Method for 100 sessions in addition to my normal practice. I challenge someone else to do the same.

Watched the Leo's video about the Neti-Neti Method and I tried doing it while on mushrooms. I got some awesome insights, but while I was doing it my mind was constantly objectifying the idea of "You" being a constant. The neti-neti method is all about discarding everything that's not you to find your real you. In the video it's said that "You" is constant, so you discard everything that is not constant until you find constant. It seemed for me like an assumption itself. Where does assumption that "You" is a constant comes from? I also at some point had this insight and experience of me being nothing more but attention. I was meditating on mushroom and during the peak as my mind was going crazy trying to hopelessly figure out where "I" am, got this glimpse of "I'm attention" - if my attention on a sensation, then I'm there, if my attention on a screen, I'm there, if my attention nowhere, then I'm there. Have anyone ever had this?

This is a realization that had been kicked around in my mind for a long time. I have a scientific mind. What this means is that I allowed my beliefs to dictate my experience despite assumptions I took as given. I felt superior because ... it's science. One thing I had a lot of trouble with was the idea of no separate world from my awareness i.e. there is a tree over there that is separate from me, and I am over here. I was recently reviewing my sensation and perception notes from undergrad, and I had a realization that is big for me: Lets look at vision. A scientific perspective says that light hits the retinal rod and cone cells, a chemical excitation takes place which is transferred into a chemical and electric signal that travels up the optic nerve to the occipital lobe in the brain where it is rendered into a visual experience. So I realized that even though I never saw this for what it was (a model) I accepted it for truth. But even this model requires the brain to generate my experience. The brain projects reality into a hologram that I was taking for granted. There absolutely cannot be any separation from any image in awareness, because the image perceived is a result of the awareness perceiving it. Everything I see is completely dependent on this projection under a scientific model, but this isn't the experience as it is. This is a belief that keeps me in separation from objects in my awareness and was based on the assumption inherent to the model I accepted. Every sensation including thought works this way. The mind projects all things, and the mind is an object in awareness. Awareness contains it all. If I am awareness, I am the container in which all experience takes place. None of the experiences occurring can be the subject that is containing it (see neti-neti). I have been reminding myself of the inherent limitation of models in every moment. I am not separate from that which I see, I am creating it. This is the only thing that makes sense. It seems obvious. The experience that triggered this for me was noticing the depth of the darkness when I close my eyes and meditate. It is almost like a holodeck with nothing being projected. It is pure unadulterated potential to form experience. Now consider whether or not light is vital in this projection. When we dream, is there any light, or further, any sensation that provides the stimulus for the experiences in the dream? No. Of course not. Therefore, we are fully aware that our brain projects these things even in absence of stimulus. Generally dreams aren't mere memories, they are new experiences. Further, time is distorted in a dream. So time cant be a constant external dimension. It is a sensation like any other. Many psychologists believe that everyone in a dream is a projection of yourself (it would have to be because the awareness of other can only be supplied by your own individual awareness.) So, the question becomes, Is waking reality any different? Can it possible be any different than that? Could we all be a piece of the same awareness, creating a container that is a consensus reality that provides a void for experience to flow through? Is matter required in a dream to make a physical reality? I know my current answer to all of these based on my experience, but I write to show how deceptive models can be. Science = Models, not reality. It is only a working representation that seems to make the most sense, until it is supplanted by a new model. The assumptions we rely on are powerful and arrogant. I am trying to search and destroy via direct experience. A lot of this is vision based, but it extends to everything. If anyone has any thing to add, or any corrections, I am excited to learn them. I would say that this was a pretty big non-dual experience for me, and I am just in wonder that I ever thought differently. The walls continue to fall away as I see what really is and it is awesome.

Concentration This is the video that I have needed for a long time. Most of my time I have spent in monkey-mind-mode. I have trouble concentrating when I try to inquire. I have trouble concentrating on mindfulness meditation. So a few weeks ago I started practicing the mindfulness meditation daily with the aim to improve my concentration. My concentration ability was so weak that I had trouble even to stay with an object for a few seconds. Now it has improved a little bit. I am able to stay with objects for maybe 10 to 20 seconds and don't drift away too often while switching the objects. It still happens but I am able to concentrate more. I still have trouble concentrating while doing inquiry stuff. Yesterday in neti neti meditation most of my time was spend thinking about social stuff - look at the post above. I tried to contemplate what I really am, while in this weak state of not knowing what I am. But then my mind came up with imaginary conversations. I want to implement the habit of this concentration technique in the morning and in the evening, maybe also at midday. I think my aim now should be to be able to reach this state of access concentration, or whatever Leo called this. Then I will be able to be much more effective at inquiry sessions. Combined with meditating at a time of the day when I am most mentally alert will make a big difference. More high quality meditation will be the key. I have tested out the best time of the day to meditate for a few weeks. I think the time for me should be around 10am to 1pm, depending on my current state.

168th day: Year Wow I am not writing much here... well it has been a whole year since I started to self-actualize! My first meditation session since I decided not to break the streak and since I made my first routine (which I am not doing for a long time now) 1st of March.. I have not quit in the entire time and I am very glad for it now. Alright since I have made again my statistics for meditation I can even share that here: Together all meditation sessions and things towards enlightenment (like self-inquiry or neti-neti) took me: 563.7 hours From that 319.5 hours was do-nothing and SDS and most of the rest was self-inquiry. I started self-inquiry after like 4 months though. Thats about it, 1/20 of 10000 hours so not really much. Of course the next year should be better since I am already on track, but hey the quality is anyway better than quantity. Mindfulness I thought I would start today mindfulness challenge. I was doing well until I started to work on something intelectual like writing post. I actually do not understand how mindfulness should work at that point. It seems quite natural to just let the flow guide me and let me really soak in the thing I am doing.. is that being mindful? If I am not being lost in the stories my mind makes up? I will try to continue tommorow. Cold showers And only cold showers. Its quite easy I have to say. I just go into this state of self-inquiry, tell myself that it is not actually cold and than it is kind of easy. The only problem that I have is not the coldness immediately but when my hands start to hurt physically because they are cold. It takes few minutes though. Music I have backslided here a bit but also found a great piece: Melodeath is gold. The Grand Project I have not forgotten! Not at all! I was learning some math though I have to read a lot for school and am working basically from morning since I get into train where I read, through entire school and into the evening when I go to sleep.. this whole process feels very satisfying though today I am going to watch episode of Vikings. I have realised that I can help the Project in the future if I work on my blog which can serve as a part of the Project. Right now somehow I am starting to get likes on my facebook page from some random people which is cool.. I do not have much time to really upgrade it, hopefully in the future. Feel free to leave like on Science and Rationality facebook page Random Cutting wood is so much fun. Venus looks great. (I love her ) Moon is amazing, rises after Sun sets and sets a bit before Sun rises, thats not going to happen in few days I guess. Somehow I find more and more girls simply beautiful, before I go back to Czech I want to tell one of them that she is really nice. All food tastes amazing. [insert something smart] Dragallur ... wow this was long

Today was a really nice day. An awesome day. I now only have to concentrate on studying history. I write the exam on Friday and already feel well prepared. Today I have done 6 promodoro sessions. I finished writing down my notes for 1945-1949 and just have to revise them once in a while to get all the facts into my mind. Then I started looking what I have to study for commemorative culture about the Nazi time. I don't like that topic. I was sick when we did this in class, so I just have the facts from our book. Well, I have to ask my teacher tomorrow. At some point I didn't wanted to study anymore. I felt still alert and went into the tree house at about 11am to meditate. I firstly did 15 minutes of mindfulness meditation and then 1 hour of neti neti. I didn't got that deep because I got kind of disrupted. I have hay fever at the moment and the mucus running down the nose is a bit annoying. When I went back into the house I felt like its time to eat. I made myself my Sunday buckwheat porridge like always. After that I watched a bit of Leos new video. Surprisingly my concentration level didn't go down today. I was relatively alert even after the meal and although in the early afternoon I always get sleepy. The whether was gorgeous and I went outside into the sun and to read. Then I went in-line skating while listening to Leos video. It was like pure joy. The sky was totally blue, the temperatures were nice, I could hear the birds, I was moving, I got new inspirations... I got so much energy. And Leos video was just perfect. On my way back home I skated onto a little "hill" and got a lot of speed while skating down. I felt like a little child and remembered playing on this hill with my childhood fried driving there down with out wave-boards. Back home I went into the garden and tried to contemplate. I chose love as the object because I felt love at that moment. I already had a little bit of success. Then I went back inside because I felt like I could get a little sunburn. I went into my sisters room because she was away and there is a nice location to read. What I also did this afternoon was reading a part of Neti Neti Meditation and trying to apply it directly, because I feel like I go over these areas in the actual meditation just on the surface. So I tried to deeply feel that I am not the body, not even located in the head. I looked at my values and strengths again and updated them a little bit. And I visualized stuff for about half an hour. I did it more deeply than my usual morning visualization. Life will just become so amazing and fulfilling. And I socialized a little bit with the family, concentrating a little bit on contemplating love and relationships. This contemplation stuff is very inspiring. I already got many ideas on what I want to contemplate: love realtionship color sound feeling emotions artificial intelligence belief knowledge mathematics life my life purpose the meaning of life my true nature etc.

Elliott Hulse I watched some videos by Elliott Hulse in the last days. Oh man, I can feel this love, masculinity, authenticity, strength in this guy. He has made a lot of development. There is a lot I can learn from him. I especially find this Bioenergetics stuff interesting. Wim Hof I also become more interested in Wim Hof again. He resonates with Elliott Hulse too. Right now, standing here in the warmth I am motivated to take cold showers in the morning again and get into the garden and let my sister pour cold water over me. Getting Initially out of the comfort zone But everytime when I want to do such things there is this initial resistance. But then when I did this step out of the comfort zone I get empowered. The cold is your teacher, like Wim Hof says it. There is a lot to learn from getting into the cold and beating the resistance. Honesty When I now thing about the book Radical Honesty I almost immediately feel the resistance. I know what I should be honest about. I should have a long conversation with my parents and tell them what I think about their marriage. And I should express love to them, and hug them for example. But this resistance! I will watch how this feeling progresses and journal about it. There will come the right time and I will feel it. I kind of just want to push these thoughts and the resistance away and emerge in unconscious behavior, and not think about such uncomfortable stuff. But then it comes to my mind that life will not improve through this and in the future I will regret it. If I do this I will benefit from it a lot in the future. I would be able to express my emotions, clear blockages... I already became better with it, but really not enough. Neti Neti Meditation I did this today, just for 35 minutes after the mindfulness technique. I forgot how deep I can go with this technique if I am just alert enough. Today I was so deep, so deep I haven't been in quite a while. But this deepness is on the absolute level not very deep, not at all. I want to read the book again and master this technique together with mindfulness. Feeling Blessed Today again was a birthday "party" with the broader family because of my sister and myself. I hate this day of the year, because of all the cake and all the stress my parents have. This time my father made 4 cakes... And that causes a lot of stress and bad mood for him. Anyways, I feel blessed to have this family. I am living in a great time, where there is no war and no people out of a family die because of war. I realized that through studying the German history after the World War II. (In June 1947 the German population just got 750 calories each day!) My family is relatively healthy and wealthy. And I got presents again. I got a big smoothie book. And I got tea, some sort of oat meal and snacks. And I got money (so much )and credit notes. And I got two new books: "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie and "Taming Your Gremlin" by Rick Carson. Just looking through those books made me excited to read and learn from them. By the way: I hate cake. I ate 5 pieces today. I feel terrible. Apes I continued reading "Our Inner Ape" and I am astronished by how much we can learn just from apes. I am in the chapter about power and its so cool. Some stuff I underlined: allegory of modern humanity: like violent apes, covered in our own blood, we long for reassurance. Despite our tendency to maim and kill, we want to hear that everthing will be alright. No male can rule by himself, at least not for long, because the group as a whole can overthrow anybody... = human politics Power is the prime mover of the male chimpanzee death is the ultimate price of trying to reach the top being in a position of power is stressful. stress compromises the immune sytem A male can increase his progeny by mating with many females while keeping rivals away. The females goes for quality rather than quantity. Risk-taking is a male characteristic, as is the hiding of vulnerabilities men have been socialized into hiding emotions girls competed only if necessary, but boys seemed to do so just for the sake of it. they desperately want to find our where they stand relative to one another knocking a male of his pedestal gets the same reaction as yanking the security blanket away from a baby What these male chimpanzees are doing seems to me like a perfect discription of what the boys in my high school are doing all the time. They are just apes, driven by their instincts. So funny of thinking of certain people this way and seeing them as babies covering themselves with blankets, just to hide their true emotions. Change Its a time of change and I really like this change now. I am growing. I love this. Notes I now have removed the old quotes from my door and put new quotes, pictures and ideas from The Happiness Hypothesis on it. Now when I look on my door I see in huge letters "Areté" (virtue, goodness, excellence) and "Eudaimonia" (happiness, a life lived well, flourishing, actualizing). I love these concepts. Maybe soon as much as Brian Johnson:

Hi, Have you read many books..like Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti, Mooji? They're good for beginners I think. You could watch youtube videos- Tolle, Mooji, Adya, Rupert Spira. Getting insights/awakenings this way can keep you motivated. I didn't meditate (legs crossed, silent). I did/do Self inquiry and neti-neti.

@unknownworld oh and here is a little exercise for you. Can you "neti neti consciousness? I am not body. Ignore I am not thoughts. Ignore what is left? Awareness. neti neti I am not awareness I am not consciousness. Go beyond. Realize that there is beyond. It doesn't end with awareness. There is more to explore. Consciousness, awareness are NOT synonymous with the absolute.