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@Carl-Richard I’ve also read/ reading books on this material as well. AI doesn’t make that many mistakes compared to say, a human like you and I which make a lot as well. It is correct so far comparing it to the book I am reading. But, I want to be open to your perspective, the books I’m reading, the AI, etc. It’s also always improving. i think turquoise is an interesting subject. I think it’s false to conclude that Yellow and Turquoise are the same. I think it. It has raised some questions for me between the higher levels of cognitive development “growing up” and “Waking Up”. This is because turquoise seems to be Holistic compared to Yellow. This seems to be slightly more spiritual. But, reality is spiritual so it makes sense to me. I have to be careful here about proving myself that I am right to you, which doesn’t matter, and my own understanding and contemplation. Hmm, seems that stages beyond Yellow start realizing the importances of consciousness, spirituality, nonduality, unity and meta rationality and the interconnectedness beyond what can be understood with the intellect. I have questions about this. This is a deeper spiritual integration and embodiment of green, and has the systems thinking elements of yellow.

Ive gotten into Sri ramana maharshi and h9s teachings lately. nto I can quote the greates yogis and could explain it well with pretty words to others if I wanted to. Ive read the books. Blah blah it all does me no good really. How can reality not be a subject-object reality? I am thinking to much I know but I havent been able to think about anything else for a few days. What is my sense of self than? My sense of self doesnt fit in with this at all. And this sense of seld is undeniable even when deep in meditation... On the bright side, I am motivated to start a kriya yoga practice now which i have been procrastinating about for months.

But it's incorrect to conflate Turquoise with mysticism or nonduality. Ask ChatGTP to explain Turquoise to you.

Surprised there's not more Nolan love here, his movies took on a totally new meaning for me after learning about nonduality and metaphysics. If Nolan isn't an awakened person (I don't really know anything about him personally), his films at least act as conduits for those ideas. There's tons of metaphysical resonance in his films: The writing's clunky, but in Interstellar he's clearly talking about Love as the ultimate force behind everything. Plus the Tesseract and higher dimensional thinking. There's a huge theme in his films, including Interstellar, of our future selves helping us. Obviously Tenet touches that too. Tenet is basically a story of a guy who initially thinks he's a random person being swept up by incomprehensible events, to realizing that he's literally the protagonist of a story he was directing all along, from his subjective future. It's a story of awakening. There's a line in Oppenheimer that got me... "It is a new way to understand reality. Einstein's opened the door, now we are peering through. Seeing a world inside our world. A world of energy and paradox that not everyone can accept."

I just truly discovered this notion of "wholeness", "unity" or "oneness" from non-duality. This idea is very frightening for me.. because it collapses my experience of reality. Awareness is all that there is.. every other thing is a mind-created concept So, Non-Duality is awareness itself. There is no separation of ego/thought or object/subject. Precisely because experience is all it Is.. and experience IS consciousness. There is no experiential state if there is no awareness, therefore "being" is all there truly is. This is without having this "I" that is assumed to be doing the experiencing. For some this mystical ego-transcendence is beautiful, because of the divine nature of it(How this pure state of awareness feels). And also because it is the ultimate truth. It is the true nature of nature. Duality is the greatest enemy to non-duality (Obviously). But get this, in order to reach non-duality you MUST purge the duality of the mind. So, having a firmly dualistic mind will not comprehend this in any way. Because non-duality is experienced, it is not known by a rational explanation. For the explanation of it is dualistic in nature, because language is dualistic and always implies separation. People engage in meditation to reach this perceptual change of awareness. My biggest fear is knowing that everything I have experienced up until now has been an illusion. A product of the mind's intrinsic tendency to dualism. Everything seems false, nothing is real. Truth is just one. Up until now my philosophical "truths"(Or any thought of that matter) have been dualistic. So, I reach some sort of existential crisis or nihilistic crisis in nature. Not only that, but all of my dreams, hopes, my personal realizations are far from truth. Any meaning becomes meaningless. It is not worth living for something at it is just a concept, a construct of the mind that separates me and true reality. In a crude way, it is all fake. I can't even think without separation so it troubles me more. I think the most terrifying thing is looking out into space and realising that that for the most part.. is reality - this yawning near-void filled with things that would kill you. Here we are.. little fragile Flatlanders hugging the increasingly disordered surface of one planet.. with the yawning hungry cosmos poised to take us all back.

what is non duality? and what is it's use in Sprituality? is non dual means good and evil are one? what non dual teaching conclude? and how non dual is non dual? we know we are one with the soul but we are different in sprit too. so which positions we take? dual or non dual?

Concentrating on the breath, yeah. Sometimes I focus on a dot on a wall or a candle flame, but not as regularly as the Vipassana. Is there really any practical difference between nonduality and believing in a dualistic god/man relationship in the end? I still feel like a ragdoll being tossed around by higher forces.

The Hyperion books are an amazing blend of scifi and religious thought. The concept in the books of "the void which binds" has a lot of overlap with nonduality and it's pretty clear to me that the author was on the same paths that a lot of us consciousness explorers are.

In light of my recent technical feedback on Wolfram's Fundamental Theory: I wanted to share my perspective on why the idea of a 'fundamental theory' or a 'theory of everything' is fundamentally flawed and a doomed from the start. My thoughts have been largely inspired by mathematics and coincide with the ruminations Edward Frenkel has shared with both Curt Jaimungal and the Science and Nonduality folk. I will try to use as many metaphors as possible without bogging the discussion with too much technical detail. For the sake of epistemic neatness, let me first specify that when speaking of a theory, I am referring to a model of the world that works through the creation/study of abstract structures and their relationships, i.e the map, not the territory. A theory is fundamentally different than an ontology (the matter/ composition of the terrain) and the two should not be conflated. An ontology gives no 'shape' to the territory, but it 'informs' what structure you can build on top the same way you can't build a castle from sand. The underlying premise of a unifying theory is the idea of 'universal terrain' - an underlying structure that can be inferred through the various ways of mapping the same territory - whether it is topography (height map), seismic analysis (depth map) or standard cartography (landscape), the terrain manifests itself differently in each instance, but still posses some invariant qualities across each type of measurement. For example, a desert doesn't have caves or tall mountains and is more spread out compared to a cavernous karst landscape. The presiding epistemological assumption in Physics is the existence of such a landscape - a grand unified theory that can be found across all our methods of sampling of reality - electromagnetic, gravitational or nuclear in nature. The underlying belief is that once such a Unified Field theory is found, everything else will fall into place. This, of course, is nothing more than a pipe dream. Contemporary physics itself does not operate under that assumption. The problem with it stems from the fundamentally computationally intractable nature of reality (postulate 1 of 'Chaos'): If you have heard of the idea of the 'Three-Body Problem' (recommend the book), than you already know that there a fairly simple systems (three body acting through gravitation on each other) for which we can no longer find closed-form solutions. This, in fact, turns out to be the rule and not the exception. All our calculable models are fundamentally idealizations - when studying newtonian mechanics, you always ignore friction. When studying many-body quantum systems, you try and minimize long-distance interactions. When trying to fight a virus, we do not study its quantum composition, only its molecular/cellular structure. The aforementioned intractability provably appears also in fluids, black holes, Ising models, lorenz systems, etc. Now it seems we can't solve anything. Or can we? The person who made the most progress on the aforementioned three-body problem is Henri Poincare, a true giant in the field of mathematics. He not only proved that no general closed-form solution exists, he developed entirely new models in topology and symplectic geometry that allowed him to find stable 'homoclinic' orbits - by creating new models of abstraction, he was able to discern properties of the system despite its fundamental intractability. This approach of abstraction is in fact universal (postulate 3 'Order') A great anecdote Frenkel gave is that when you are playing chess, you don't care about calculating every quantum state of the system and even if you could (we can't by a factor of 10^23), it still wouldn't help you win the game. Combining this with the prior realization about the intractable nature of reality helps us approach a greater understanding and one that has in fact been foundational to the true nature of mathematics - the study of structure and abstraction itself. Instead of seeking a 'unifying theory', we should marvel at the complexity of reality and approach problems at each level (physics, chemistry, biology, computer science etc.) by applying models and ways of thinking from across the the fields without any 'elitism' as to which science is the 'fundamental one'. And yet, here is why 'mathematics is the queen of all sciences' as Gauss said it - because Mathematics does not make itself to be a fundamental theory, as it does not make prescriptive statements about the landscape. Rather, it is a universal language that helps us map and compare all the landscapes there are. Even deeper at its essence, unification in Mathematics is about building the bridges across the continents.

I don't really like labeling myself an ex-Muslim, cuz I only practiced for a year when I was 8. But I unfortunately did have a lot of Islam related experiences. I was dragged on the pilgrimage to Mecca against my will, as one example. Muslims did a lot of things to me without my consent, which I have never experienced in any other spiritual or religious community. I have complex thoughts about the issue that I don't hear echoed very often, honestly it makes me feel pretty isolated because aside from the effect their bullshit teachings had on me, I otherwise grew up with an American parent. It's a real weird culture clash, Wahhabi Islam and materialist southern California culture. Funny enough, since getting into spirituality I have started to see some value in Islamic stuff, but I only find that's true if the religion is explained by NON-MUSLIMS. Like, if a western professor talks about it in a comparative religion context, or an eastern meditation practitioner talked about mystical Islam or something. But all I've seen from actual Middle Easterners is racism, delusion, and justifications for the shame-based culture of intergenerational trauma they've got going on over there. I think the reason is because if a non-Muslim talks about it, they can take what's good about it and house it in the context of a modern world largely underpinned by the implicit beliefs of the global economy which largely come from the west. But if a Muslim talks about it, it's not usually about a personal practice or a cultural understanding. It comes with the full ideology of Muslim society: that Islam must spread around the globe and establish a worldwide Sharia government. Plus Muslim personal ethics fucking suck. Way too many of these people are still comfortable with murder, oppression of women, and all the other crap. To give an idea of what I mean about shitty Muslim morals, I attended a Muslim school for 8 years in SoCal. I met so many Muslims at the time who told me verbatim that the laws of the United States were quite literally tools of Satan, and thus Muslims had a DUTY to break the laws as a form of passive jihad. They told me this verbatim, many many times. My Muslim dad followed this advice and got arrested about 20 times. Not to mention the school instructed me for 8 long years that it was my soul-bound duty to wage jihad against the federal government of the United States, to make my life's work to infiltrate an office of government on the federal or state level, to if not destroy America, at least turn it into a Muslim state. (Which is adorable, BTW) So... I don't ever want to follow a religion in my daily life that explicitly instructed me to be hostile to the country in which I live. I don't want to follow a religion who's sense of civics is so twisted, they explicitly instructed me to break the local laws in which I live. Do you hear that? This school/mosque, theoretically a place of moral instruction, was literally instructing kindergarteners to grow up to BREAK THE LAWS of the land in which they live. A "moral" institution. Does it get any more twisted than that? Don't get me started on how the teachers, in a school in Orange County CA in the early 90s, used the authority of the office of teacher to instruct us kids that "the Jews" have "pig brains" and walk with limps because they're so crooked. It just goes on and on. These people are not serious yet. The Muslim region of the world still has a lot of work to do to evolve up the Spiral Dynamics chain and join the rest of us here in the 21st century. I say that as an Arab American who has been to the Middle East many times. In the US most white people would consider that racist, I think, but my experience with the Muslims was harsh and my freedom from them was hard won. It's really easy to have naive beliefs about what goes on inside Muslim society, looking out from the West. Is every Muslim like that? Of course not, but I don't care. Too many of them are, and the group think still leads to things like Oct 7. 20 years later they're still marking days on the calendar with mass murder. You can't convince me they hold any moral authority whatsoever. Furthermore, whatever secret sauce teachings the Sufis got, you'd be better served by going with Advaita, Buddhism, or any of the nonduality teachers. I find that the western conversation around Islam is too constrained by westerners's well meaning attempts to give Muslims the benefit of the doubt. That's part of our character as a society, it's part of how we help people assimilate into the west. But then Muslims take advantage of that to both-sides things like the Oct 7 attacks. Frankly my opinion is that we in the west have this word, religion. And we assume that each one is equal to each other one. But I perceive vast differences between the coercive practices of the Muslim community I was a part of, the dearth of substance in their teachings, the moral character of the followers, contrasted to other religious and spiritual traditions. Obviously #NotAllMuslims, but that's my hardwon opinion after dealing with those jokers for a couple decades. Don't miss em.

Transcending nonduality means moving beyond even the notion of unity or oneness, stepping into a realm that defies all categories and labels—including spiritual ones. Non-duality suggests "oneness" or the absence of separation, but it’s still a pointer, not the ultimate truth. Like all teachings, it serves as a bridge but must also be transcended. Non-duality is the last doorway before even the concept of 'one' dissolves. Beyond this is an experience where not even unity exists, but simply 'what is'—free from all frameworks. Both "oneness" and "emptiness" are states the mind can conceive, but beyond this lies an experience without an observer, where neither one nor many, full nor empty, applies. Even non-duality is a framework, a map of reality. To truly transcend, all maps must be abandoned, leaving one in direct contact with the ineffable. Transcending nonduality demands the ultimate letting go—of all teachings, all experiences, even the sense of having "awakened." There’s no goal, just what is, in pure, unfiltered form, Let go of every idea of truth—even enlightenment, even non-duality. What’s left is not a realization but a complete and total surrender to the mystery of being. What if even non-duality is a distraction? non-duality serves as a pointer, but like all pointers, it too must be let go of for the ultimate truth to be realized. True transcendence doesn’t come from seeking, but from radical acceptance and letting go. So many seekers get trapped in the concept of oneness, not realizing that true transcendence requires the dissolution of all frameworks—even the framework of non-duality. This is powerful beyond conventional and non conventional thought. Imagine walking a path and finding a door labeled ‘truth.’ You open the door, but then realize there’s nothing inside, not even you. This is the transcendence of all ideas, including non-duality. This is truly profound territory that can deeply resonate with advanced seekers and spiritual masters alike. This is Radical Letting Go. You are not alone in this vast silence. Others are here too, quietly living in the depths beyond all concepts. Though this journey often feels solitary, it is shared by those who have seen the ultimate truth. Transcendence does not mean abandoning the world but embracing it without attachment. How can we live fully from this place of ultimate freedom while participating in life’s unfolding? It is possible. You’ve transcended the idea of oneness. Now, can you transcend even the idea of transcendence? What happens when there’s no longer a seeker, no path, and no realization? @Leo Gura How do you act in the world when the very concept of 'self' has dissolved? What does compassionate action look like from the space of ultimate non-dual awareness? Many who have experienced these levels of consciousness through psychedelics need help integrating their experiences, What if your deepest psychedelic experience wasn’t just a temporary high, but a doorway into a truth that can be lived every day? You’ve been living a dream, and right now, we will tear it apart. This is not a meditation. This is the end of everything you think you know about reality. There is no you. No mind. No self. There’s nothing left but this… Can you feel the panic rising? Good. That’s the ego collapsing. What happens when you lose all sense of self? Bingo!!!! Feel the fear dissolve as you fall deeper. Deeper into the void. I love you. Get some rest beautiful. 🙏🏼❤️💥🎇

I can speak to this. These messages are coming because in 2019 and 2020, I woke up to nonduality (thanks to Leo's channel btw). Except, without spiritual or metaphysical training, I honestly didn't even know wtf I "woke up" to. It's taken me several years since to integrate these awakenings, and really awakening and integration are ongoing. So, I had a stage where despite my awakening, I was still just looking for someone to "tell me what it all means." Which, of course, is diametrically opposed to the idea of self-knowledge. I ended up manifesting vast amounts of people on Youtube talking about various spiritual and esoteric topics that I never saw anywhere pre-2019 and awakening. First, I was curious about manifesting a Cadillac, so endless realms of Youtube "manifestation coaches" popped up. But I wanted to know the bigger picture, but was still too antisocial to leave my Youtube page. So then came astrologers, meditators, metaphysicians, mystics, and finally people began talking about "ascension into 5D." So recently, returning to the truth that we are all one, yet retain our relative beings, there is this narrative forming of a worldwide global awakening. Will this happen? Sure, it's happening, it was happening before, and will continue happening again. You have seen these videos because your attention is open to these things. It appears to you in your own personal universe. But to those who've never gone down these rabbit holes, they're in whatever stories they currently resonate with. Politics, religion, money, etc. To them, an announcement of a worldwide global awakening doesn't mean anything. To those of us who are resonating with this, we will see the global awakening. It will appear to us in a way that is persuasive. But the world will keep on spinning, new people will be born, new human journeys for Spirit to embark upon will continue. They will have their own awakenings, their own journeys, expressed to them in the way that makes sense for their purpose at that time. Perhaps it will appear as this narrative of "worldwide global awakening," or maybe it'll express as some other thing. But as we know here, the awakening already happened, it is happening, it is about to happen, and you are ALREADY IT. If a video message about global awakening is salient to you, then good. Perhaps it inspires you. Perhaps you can meet up with those people already talking about it, and do what you can to raise awareness of the people around you. I happen to know that you can be pretty awakened without ever putting it in spiritual or metaphysical terms at all. I have been obsessed with awakening while still being an unenlightened fool, and I've seen people who didn't think much about God or spirituality who were genuinely good, loving, arguably awakened people. But, to those who have awakened and think that we have to now convince the other 8 billion humans to all "awaken," and to express that awakening in the terms that people like us here do, in terms of like Alan Watts and enlightenment and metaphysics and such... I don't think that's ever going to happen, nor do I think it's the purpose of this veiled life of forgetfulness and remembering. We can provide knowledge to those who come after us, we can provide material for them to become more conscious, but we cannot live their journeys for them. New people come into the planet every day, and each one has the potential to stand on the shoulders of all who came before. To extend the map of meaning that humanity has created, and expand the horizon of choice available to each individual on this planet as they embark of their journey of discovery and self-realization.

You can only get close to it. When duality stops existing, experience cannot occur. Consider a dream of a beach. The very moment you see the beach you are localized at some point within it, and there is an appearance of duality. If duality ceased, it would be impossible for you to see the beach at all because seeing is an experience, and experience creates experiencer and duality. When there is no appearance of duality there is only everythingness which = nothingness as above. That nothingness is the same state entered during general anaesthetic. We don't come "out of" nothingness and "go back" into it (there is nowhere to come out of or go to), we are all currently as we speak in a state of something like general anaesthetic. That is the ground, the foundation. We are always nothing, but something appears, and when that something appears duality appears and then it is possible for there to be an experience of something, and thus an experiencer. Who is looking through your eyes, hearing through your ears? The Absolute ("God") is. Not you AND God. Just God. You are an illusion, there's no such thing as a "you". There is only God. Where are your dead loved ones? Your dead loved ones are looking through your eyes. They are God, and so are "you". What you call "you" is merely something God experiences, God tastes with your tongue, feels your emotions, smells with your nose. God experiences your brain and hence your memories and body and so on. All of these things are inside of God and made of God... How could God possibly create something outside of itself or with anything but itself? There is no space so nowhere else to place anything. There is nothing else in existence so it can only craft something with itself. There is nothing else at all.

@Princess Arabia To respond to your topic, emotions are just stimuli in our mind to instigate behavior. It's just that people also overlay a binary concept of good/bad over the top of them that may not really exist. Although, it isn't necessarily a clear cut binary people employ, there's often alot of gray or mixed areas where the same emotions have both positive and negative conceptions about it or are inverted depending on circumstances. Even many of the 'nonduality' crowd uses a binary to describe their experience, though it seems like a contradiction. This isn't to criticize them but it just shows how ingrained in the psyche it is to frame experience and stimuli in this way. I can admit as I cultivate well being and there are expression dynamics from that I recognize it's also a nod towards this same type of framing, though it is less moralistic than the good/bad or right/wrong implications can be.

@Reciprocality Interesting, the first thought that occurs to me is that the notion of nonduality comes into play. We could consider Einstein's Theories of Relativity and the nature of time, quantum physics' theories of Entanglement, Newton's theories of actions/reactions, and, of course, all of the philosophical notions of social connectedness. That's all I got. Maybe this could be an example of the separation: Existential fear is about something that does not exist, so in effect, it is something about nothing. Say whaaa'

They're usually not. 99% of self-proclaimed truth-seekers (even on this forum) are just larping. They don the aesthetic of "truth-seeker" simply for the existential comfort and security that this identity provides. Real truth-seeking is like drowning naked in the middle of the Atlantic ocean at night with unseen creatures of the dark lurking beneath you, and no humans, no land, no warmth, no light to grasp onto. And then willingly plunging deeper into that lonely, vulnerable, cold without any guarantee of ever coming back... only then is the REAL light revealed, but you can easily tell that none of these folks would dare go there. Their whole ""global awakening"" is a cute fiction on stilts to avoid the real abyss - and thus the real love and light eludes them. I would be HIGHLY suspicious of any youtube persona that claims to deliver spiritual insight - ESPECIALLY if they have any new age or Buddhist roots in their rhetoric/mannerisms. Dead givesaways of larpers: "vibration, frequency, reality-shifting, timelines, manifestation, 5D, numerology, astrology, law of attraction, law of assumption, no-self, nonduality, jhanas, nothingness, reincarnation, lifetimes, spirits, entities" and so much more. And who am I to cast such judgement upon these kind, sincere people who do genuine good work in the world? I'm just a guy who has glimpsed the Abyss: The total collapse of the Entire Universe - held together by a single, tender, Self-Aware thread of Infinite Intelligence, gawking at its own majesty and magnitude, not yet ready to cross to the other side. And every day I avoid this truth just as much as anybody else. You could say that the very fact that we are alive today on earth as humans is in every sense a temporary defiance of Truth - but Truth is so Absolute that it merges with this defiance, and thus here we are today in Absolute Reality - The most Perfect Gift that Consciousness could give itself, made of itself unto itself! And so, with all of this context and reference experience, it's patently clear to me when I see my fellow souls donning a spiritual costume to avoid the heat death of the universe (aka Truth). After all, I too do the same. They're me.

You guys don't pay attention to my sig. I'm above all that crap . None of you understands true liberation .when you reach this state you no longer engage in spiritual dick measuring contests about who's awake and whose a madlad. These sorts of questions do not even enter your mind . They don't make sense .they are utter foolishness. And you guys think you're awake and you engage in nonduality wars with each others about who's awake ? I just have to lmao .

In Leo's latest video he says God realization is much deeper than nonduality. Leo, I watched the whole video, thank you, but please can you or someone else that knows, say a bit more about the difference between realizing God and fully realizing nonduality. Are people like Adyashanti or Spira not God realized ?

The Gospel of Thomas is an incredible resource for those who take the nondual path. Many of these sayings are spot on and provide profound insight into his teachings and the religion that spawned around his teachings, how they have become distorted, and how they can possibly be reintroduced. Back in 2017 there was a user on the Actualized forum who wrote a dissection on the various sayings of Jesus as recorded in the Gospel of Thomas.

1) It's quite advanced relative to how the average human thinks. It's not advanced relative to something like nonduality or Spiral Wizardry. 2) PM is not a practical worldview for normies. PM is for intellectuals, not regular people. PM does not help normal people survive.

It's made of mind/consciousness, which is nothing. A dream is made of nothing. But it's still something, because here it is. It's nonduality. Something and nothing are the same thing. It's nothing, experiencing something.

I think he wrote a blog post about how he has a different understanding of conscoiusness. I could be absolutely wrong about this, but i think he said that in Buddhism they experience nonduality by confronting the void as they go down (?) in consciousness and his method is more like becoming more and more conscious. As you can see, i cant really recall how he said it. He also talked about recently how human enlightenment is conformist. I hope im not misquoting him too bad or giving false meaning to what he said, it would be nice if he @Leo Gura answered this, im curious too. If it is about how he had many deep enlightenment experiences that goes beyond any spiritual teachings, i dont doubt him, but i would just like to say that there is no way to tell how far other masters went. It could be that they could not communicate it or did not see it reasonable to try. Leo took down his solipsism video too and as far as i know his most serious communication about his alien consciousness experience was a forum post.

He's just talking about nonduality. Nonduality and solipsism are two different things.

That small audio doesn't reveal everything sadhguru thinks about this topic. There is a video where he very directly calls solipsism false and makes fun of it. I'm just stating facts. In that audio he is simply talking about nonduality. Nonduality and solipsism are not the same.

thanks guys mostly great answers I was wondering about nonduality/all is one and jesus teachings etc grew up non religious was listening to this recently probably will listen to some of these later