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Recall that this is what you wrote: "But I also do not believe I am above taking a life to sustain life. And I don't take that responsibility lightly." This claim is what I was curious about. It seems to me like you are holding on to something. Why can't you simply be "above" "taking a life?" I bet you can. It's not hard. You said you even did it for 2 years. So why hold back? What would you lose by committing to being vegan? (or even, what gain from non-veganism are you attached to, if any?) I'm not asking for a reasoned analysis of variables, but rather for an honest reflection of identity-level instinct. You can just simply choose to minimize killing, lol. It's not rocket science. What's so personally precious to you about "taking a life to sustain life?" Why make it into a responsibility? For a number of us, this "responsibility" you describe has dissolved into nothingness... no longer a burden. 1) You can live according to veganism without being ideological. In fact, you can live according to veganism for reasons entirely other than ideology. 2) Veganism at its core is not about taking ethical positions. It's simply a mode of being. You need no "ethics" or "positions" to be in a particular mode. 3) Have you tried vegetarianism? Matters of compassion are not all-or-nothing as many vegans would declare. Simply putting meat aside is still a meaningful personal change, and products like eggs really do help (for those who insist that "they need meat for health"). Obvious exceptions if you have health problems like SIBO but I assume I am communicating with someone of average health

There are no enlightened people. But this body is apparently going to unfortunately come before you and tell "you" something: There is no real experience, it just seems like there is, and all there is is what it seems there is. This no-thing which is everything does not move. There is no real space or time, but if the thought "this is really happening to me" appears, then it can seem like "time" carries "you" to the future. It's an energy that imagines there's a real future that never comes -- it's an illusion. This is already nothingness. Consciousness will not be interrupted because it didn't start. You can't get it. If it isn't obvious that this is everything, there will seem to be experience, or another time, and the appearance will seem to have someone "in" it who has a "life."

How close atheist in their view that everything goes into nothingness. No sensation , No thoughts, No emotion, No thinking, Just silence . As compare to definition of consciouness. Can any enlighted person elaborate to me?

@James123 yes, we are nothing, amplitude without limits, zero. but there is a problem here: we also exist as "something". I think that enlightenment is more than liberation and nothingness. Maybe my ego can't accept be nothing, of course, but there is something!. And yes, it's liberating, relaxing, resting in the present at the end. But same time it's like sad. The void where there is no where or when, no shape, no energy. Always the same moment, the zero moment. What a party. But same time, there is a big party. The universe is. Impossible to understand that duality right now

@James123 i cannot "be" nothingness, only see it as one who looks out into an abyss. there is calm but also rejection. do you access that every day? how long, if i may ask?

Collapse of real time and space, revealing infinite matrix... from which, you come out the other side, miraculously. Witness practice was kicked up a notch ever since I did it, after already becoming fairly conscious and deconstructed. K-hole with relatively less conscious development is more just a great fun time playing with an astral body... After God-realization, immortality-realization, and infinity-realization have seemed to take place in one's journey, k-hole becomes more powerful than 5-MeO-DMT for... well for what exactly? The point, as I see it: loosening your attachment to progressively greater (well, more subtle) structures of mind/claim/understanding, so that identification becomes malleable enough to be as fluid as spacious nothingness, allowing entity contact, and progressively deeper God-realization, which never ends, it seems. Even more powerful combined with a psychedelic, but these days I would never do that. Certainly not at a k-hole dose -- I would not be coming back, I'm afraid. I cannot even describe what is sure to happen if I were to take ketamine + psychedelic now.

You don't. It just seems like you do if there is the belief structure -- "I am real," etc. Completeness can never be experienced, since it's all there is. You can Real-I-ze the infinite, God, nothingness, etc, however. Or you can just create the reality you want -- the point.

I thought about that. I don't get how such a choice can be made. I'm aware it doesn't take a decision like the ego self, but it "made it happen". I have been all the way into the nothingness (without love though) I get that, but I didn't feel the need to explain eternity. @m0hsen Yes I meant what you wrote in human language. Because it wants egoic projection, impermanence and meaning. There's absolutely nothing in the singularity. We dream this as a sandbox, to play. @Rajneeshpuram I don't know... People would have taken care of me I guess even if I couldn't function. It's the absence of it, not the opposite. Damn words haha. It's "empty" of fun.

Not becoming everything, just vanishing the thoughts. The base of separation is based on identification with the thoughts. What is everything? Still an identification. Entire life, universe vsvs becomes just a thought thats it??? experiencing the being god, infinite, nothingness just become a thought not even, there is nothing there. ??? Enlightenment is end of the self and identification. Ego hates that. Lol.

What you are calling God, is not God. Nothingness is not a thing, literally. There are no things. There is no God, since all there is, is God. God does not exist, since God is existence, which is emptiness, which is fullness. Watch thoughts as you respond next. Notice the explosion of false claims. Not judging, it just happens.

Thanks for the explanation I thought that Hindu spirituality was more disconnected from politics. Well, from my personal studies and experiences, Shankara and Ramana seem to be the most outstanding spiritual characters in india, especially because of the incredible depth of metaphysical knowledge they reached. Probably Shankara was the most hardcore one, while most of medieval India was stuck on bhakti and useless rituals, he discovered the importance of removing the ignorance of the ego and focusing on yourself rather than on religion. Buddha, as an indian, is also very noteworthy for being the first one to codify and describe nothingness and the void of existence, even before hinduism. Probably he influenced advaita vedanta quite a lot....

God is a tautology. God is and is not. To say there is no god is either nonsensical, or actually true, since if ego is active, it will seem to have ideas about God, which are the obstruction to God — that which is beyond even itself, which is the exact same thing as nothingness.

I just had this insight, no awakening prior to it. But it's obvious. The nothingness is just too much of a single nothing. Infinite singularity of ITself. Why would it stay like that? Why, wouldn't it take the form of a human/creature to escape it's boring meaningless void of eternity. As Leo said: It limits/forgets itself to be able to experience itself. Being dead/God isn't fun, this life is made for not wallowing as the nothingness all the "time". This gives my life an entirely different perspective. Damn this is the thing god wants. God loves my life including it's drama. I don't need to take refuge into no-self, because I "escaped" the nothingness for this particular illusion! Oh damn stupid me thought I wouldn't choose to reincarnate again, guess I was wrong. One thing still bothers me. The bad stuff. Suffering is terrifying.

Exactly. Just trying to say because you believe your thoughts as real. Thats why you keep coming with ideas as creation or nothingness created the existence. But as you say nothing happens. There is nothing there. Whatever you think there is nothing there. So dont trust the thoughts. Step back, watch the thoughts, till you realize there is nothing there. Than you vanish.

Lol. I used to take many time 10 between 8 gr dried shrooms. Believe it if you or many people do that you will freak out. I have been experienced that so called god head, nothingness, infinite nothingness or infinite love, however because of thought process still goes on and therefore you name and label as experiencing god that’s not even enlightenment. Just taking or eating some stuff makes you your god, it is very doubtful, cheapy. When enlightenment happens, your entire life, entire experience with the god head vsvs, just becomes a single thought, not even. So you cant even fathom enlightenment, because you cant even think of it or name and label it as god. Let go everything till nothing left, not even a single thought. Let go everything till you forget everything including yourself. If no thoughts arises or identification with thoughts ends for long time, you forget everything including yourself. Maybe enlightenment happens maybe not. Just go in front of the mirror and think the creation, or something created, or nothingness created itself. will youu anything in your so called head? What will happen?

It's clear something has created/is creating this nothingness. That we call God

When you sleep, is there any mind, you, world, thoughts, universe, including word of being or nothingness (by the way these are all thoughts)?

I think it's just a different approach to teaching. To the experience of a human, there are definitely different states of consciousness. But to God, God is all the states of consciousness. These teachers are describing the ultimate truth from God's perspective, and it might work for some, but it's unlikely that this way of teaching will lead to direct experiences of really high states of consciousness. Not impossible, but much harder. It's more for those who are already close to the realization of God as existence, but it might mislead others who are less developed. The realization is very important, but it's not the endpoint for God-realization. The realization of existence will lead to a state of pure beingness, which is needed for awakening. It's really the beginning of higher consciousness since now you can surrender much more easily. @Leo Gura Yeah, both directions lead to each other. When you reach the absolute extreme of infinite infinity, you will end up in absolute nothingness as infinite God/love. The two are merged in the end when you go all the way. The same goes for nothingness. When you reach the absolute extreme of nothingness, you reach infinite God/love. Once they are merged, it's like the ultimate strange loop; every infinity is infinitely nothing and infinitely loving and whole at the same time. All of these differences and ideas and preferences and teachings are infinite love/nothing/us, making this experience more entertaining.

There are levels of comprehension of Nothingness. If you've only had one level of awakening, you have no idea how much you're missing. You are missing as much after your first awakening as you were before your first awakening.

@Leo Gura States exist but they are changes of the objective mind's "awareness." Nothingness is Nothingness and will stay Nothingness. There are not levels of Nothingness other than those perceived by an imagined mind.

@Someone here Nature is often made out more complex than what it really is. there is really no duality in nature other then in humans minds who construct it. Everything is Light. Existence = to stand out. Like the Absolute stands out from it self. The One or the unmanifest is nothing like the forms we see around us but at the same time it is the same. Ancient metaphysics from Greek, indian, egyptian usually has monastic philosophy. Plotinus and the ancient indians, advaita vedanta, is all built upon via negativa. My soul IS not this not that. And through that reach the Absolute. Existence is simple it is one thing. We just complicate it extremely much. You should study the ancients. Even buddha's teaching was the way to the Absolute or the way to Brahman. Pythagoras , plato, plotinus, sri aurobindo, adi shankarya, buddha, meister eckhart and so forth is really wise people. Nikola tesla, Walter russel, and so forth. This is wise people you should study to get some clarity in both science and metaphysics, physics and metaphysics is the same coin. These people have been pointing to the same thing for ages. Everything mainstream and popular is almost always not the ultimate truth. Many people have knowledge but no wisdom. Nothingness is not empty either it is full to the brim. There is no such thing as PURE NOTHINGNESS IMO. Cause to know about nothingness there is still witness to it. Either you postulate the cult of bumbing particles or you postulate the ether/Absolute/god/brahman or whatever you want to call it. These are the only ones who has been seriously proposed. The cult of bumbing particles have a somewhat hard time explaining fundamental things and how things work. The ether does not really in the same way

Solipsism holds that reality, or reality as humans can know it, is fundamentally mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial." While I agree that the world is immaterial, I disagree that the world is mentally constructed. My main question to people who adhere to idealism is this: If the world is mentally constructed, it should adhere to the properties of thought. Thoughts can be shaped off our own volition. We can visualise whatever we want, when we want. If the world as we know it is just a mental construct, then why can't we change the world off our own volition? Why can't we just dream up an ice cream in front of us right now? Yes you might say the world has the potential to be infinitely anything, as the world is nothingness, which is of course correct, but there is still something collapsing it to a particular state for right now! And that thing isn't just us dreaming stuff up, if it were, we would be able to control the world through imagination. And who or what even is doing the doing of mentally constructing stuff? If the world is mentally constructed, what is doing the mental construction? Or a better way to say it is, what tool or way are you using to figure out that the world is mentally constructed

Yes, if you didn't stop and go all the way, you would merge into the ultimate truth/God/Nothingness. Your physical reality will melt in infinite love, and everything will merge into one absolute nothingness. In a physical sense, you are dead. But since you are God, you can just recreate reality in an instant and come back if you desire so. Going all the way requires the total surrendering of everything in your existence. Liberation and true awakening is attained after you come back from such experience.

"Cultivation is named as such because it provides a method of cultivating oneself, a path to walk. There was a saying in the past to the effect of, “This person doesn’t cultivate the Dao, and yet he is in the Dao.” While following a lesser path, he values “nothingness,” or “emptiness.” He lives out his life in this world by following the course of fate. He is at peace with the world. He thinks, “Give it to me if it is meant to be mine, and if it is not, I don’t want it.” He does not follow the typical forms of cultivation. He doesn’t even know what “cultivation” is. Yet there are masters taking care of people like him. And he seldom gets into disagreements with others. This is what people used to call “In the Dao without cultivating the Dao.” Ordinary people can also, like them, manage to refrain from seeking things, but ultimately they will not gain a celestial rank. Such a person will not gain gong (spiritual energy), and can merely store up limitless virtue, a large sum. And many people will do harm to him, for a good person does not have it easy. But this results merely in a large amount of virtue. If he takes up a practice, it will naturally turn into a great deal of gong. If he doesn’t take up a practice, he will probably be blessed in his next life, becoming a high-ranking official or making a fortune. By contrast, most of the people who are in the Dao without cultivating it have special backgrounds, of course, and there are people looking after them. He’s in a state of not cultivating the Dao, and yet his thoughts, his realm, are in the Dao, and so in the future he will return to his original place. Without cultivating the Dao, he is cultivating it—someone is transforming gong for him though he doesn’t know it. His life is full of misfortune, and he suffers and pays off his karma. His xinxing (heart and mind nature) quietly improves over the course of his life, and such is always his state. These are people with special backgrounds. It is hard for an ordinary person to do this. Confucius left to man a way of acting that is befitting a human—the Doctrine of the Mean. Lao Zi taught a method for cultivation. But as it turns out, Chinese people combined Confucian ideas with those of the Daoist school. And, beginning in the Song dynasty, Buddhist ideas started to find their way in. Thereafter Buddhist thought thus changed beyond recognition. And after the Song dynasty, Buddhism incorporated things from Chinese Confucianism, such as filial piety and the like—much content of the sort. But the Buddhist school doesn’t actually contain anything like that. The Buddhist school takes human matters lightly, and in its view, who knows how many parents a person has had over his many lifetimes. Only when you let go of all such attachments and cultivate with a quiet and calm mind can you meet with success. They are attachments. So, after Confucian thought was introduced [into Buddhism], the attachment of familial affection arose." - from Zhuan Falun Volume II : https://falundafa.org/eng/eng/html/zfl2/zfl2.htm

Definitely. However, i am talking about people who are on this path. Psychedelics can definitely increase the level of consciousness, however enlightenment is realization of there is no such a thing as consciousness. Yes but this can be only understood when enlightenment happens, therefore the people who are on this path can easily stuck to have higher mind, which psychedelics provides. Meanwhile all is a thought not even. There is no such a thing as thought, experience, self or even no self. Agreed. However, even experiencing nothingness or infinite nothingness while having thought process is has nothing to do with enlightenment and this experience provides such a thing as state, and people try to reach that so called state in life time. However it is almost impossible to realize there is no one to have to reach a state. Imo, Psychedelics are climbing to hill, however enlightenment is jumping of the hill.