Etherial Cat
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Posts posted by Etherial Cat
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2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:@Etherial Cat That's not what I was asking.
You seem to be disagreeing with Leo on two different things: his advice and his position. I don't care about his position one bit, it's his personal opinion. But I do care about improving myself. What do you think is wrong with his advice?
The advice and the position he holds are not very distinctive.
My suggestion to Leo was to tone down on necessarily framing things between men and woman as a survival game where love and consciousness is impossible because women are too unconscious. He's just attracting his own self-fulfilling prophecy.
And by focusing on this mindset, he doesn't give women the opportunity for more consciousness and better quality affection, which is a pity. He doesn't believe its possible and we've got the skills for it. Which is a false belief.
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1 minute ago, unborn_chicken said:All I conclude from this thread is that endless debate leads nowhere.
In the end everyone will do what they will.
There is for sure a sweetspot between discussing, cristalizing insights and losing your time debating. But I think you are right and I should stop all together as what I want to say has already been said.
I'd just wish I had not several tags, because I feel bad not replying once someone replies me.
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34 minutes ago, gettoefl said:so of course pick up is low consciousness, it is what works to get you the sex that you need
I'm talking about what comes after.
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11 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:- You can't recognize the value of consciousness vs survival anywhere, since such recognition would be part of your survival (because value = survival).
- It's not like we are choosing between two paths, where either of them leads to higher consciousness and death, and the other to low consciousness and survival. Consciousness and survival are two separate parameters.
- High consciousness and survival are not opposites, and they do not contradict each other. Survival can be pursued consciously or unconsciously depending on the person doing the pursuing and their levels of consciousness.
- The opposite of high consciousness is low consciousness. And the opposite of survival is death, or in other contexts ego-death.
Survival can be pursued consciously or unconsciously depending on the person doing the pursuing and their levels of consciousness.
<- That's exactly my point
What's the rest about, then? And lol at your 4 @Gesundheit
20 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:- What is the problem with Leo's advice? Can you point your finger exactly to what you think is harmful and should be corrected or removed from his advice? I have been wrong about things you were right about in the past, and I am all ears and ready to accept your perspective. Can you state clearly where you think the problem is?
I highlighted it in bold in a previous post.
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8 minutes ago, something_else said:If you can recognise the value of consciousness, then would you say that a shy guy who can barely leave his house, barely talk to humans, male or female, and is riddled with social anxiety is high consciousness?
Because if not, then there needs to be a set of instructions to take a dude like that and get them over all that shit and pickup is the most practical way to do that. Call it socialisation if you want, that's a better way to frame it but it's still fundamentally similar in that it involves going out and socialising with others on a consistent and frequent basis, usually with a focus on girls since that's where guys get the most anxious
You're not portraying a developed individual showing high consciousness traits.
For others elements on how I conceived things, you can maybe read my earlier entrances on this thread.
12 minutes ago, something_else said:What is inherently more conscious about a strong long term relationship than exploring your sexuality in a short term one?
There is nothing wrong with exploring sexuality. The things discussed here are a bit more contextualized than this simplification.
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Just now, Leo Gura said:Of course.
Sex is survival.
Not just women, men too. You genitals don't care about consciousness.
Hum yes, they do. They are link to my emotional system, and I don't get wet for low consciousness guys as they only trigger in me indifference or annoyance.
I am as attracted to low conscious guys holistically as I am let's say intellectually drawn by Donald Trump.
4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:You can say whatever you want but most women are attracted to low consciousness behavior.
Most customers in the self-help business in general are attracted to low consciousness behavior, yet you're focusing on attracting a specific audience who can stomach your actual development. But you're using a smart combo of consciousness and survival, which works well for you.
You could do the same with girls.
Imagine if you had spent your whole career on actualized.org making clickbait self-help video on stage Orange subject, because "this is were most people are at".
What's the difference?
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It sounds awfully like you're saying that women don't have the ability to be attracted to consciousness and will only fall for survival capital?
If I can recognize the value of consciousness vs survival elsewhere, I can definitely do it as well with men.
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7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The problem with some of ya'll is that you assume that dating/socializing is supposed to be some noble, mystical, high consciousness thing. It has never been that.
It obviously can be both. One chose what it wants.
The question is why would I go for the low consciousness thing when I can get the high consciousness option?
Why aren't you interested in eating 1$ meals at Mcdonalds everyday? Chasing money out of people using the same set of techniques you use on girls? Or selling crack to children?
10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:One of the absurdities of spirituality is that people then start to act like they are above animalistic survival when they are anything but.
The aim is conscious survival.
You put this as a priorities this for all areas in your life except for relationship and the dating advices you give.
What infuriates all the women in here is that in an area where love can be so well incarnated, you heavily promote selfishness and deny female REAL affection. What you come off like is : Love and consciousness for everyone BUT women.
And you teach guys that survival is what matters most in the domain and do the same as you.
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On 13/11/2021 at 9:47 PM, Anahata said:Since there is no veil of perception, 'the now' is absolute/actuality. The relative domain and the absolute domain are One.
On 13/11/2021 at 10:16 PM, Anahata said:Thus, everything makes sense if God dreams it up = You experience it directly. The relative is not separate from the Absolute
You are back.
Is there any way you could elaborate on the key elements of the relationship between the relative domain and the Absolute?
On 13/11/2021 at 9:47 PM, Anahata said:Content is changing, but *NOTHING/SELF/GOD/I Am/Infinite LOVE* stays the same. But the content of direct experience = NOTHING/SELF/GOD/I am/Infinite Love/Infinity/The Now.
There's no separation in actuality.
Everything is *NOTHING/SELF/GOD/I Am/Infinite LOVE* experiencing *NOTHING/SELF/GOD/I Am/Infinite LOVE* is another way of saying that consciousness is only ever experiencing itself. Right?
But how can one navigate through the relative knowing there is no separation in actuality, while still knowing there are limitations or distinctions to be made for sustaining the body and manifest? How do you deal with this objective distinction in actuality?
But I think this question goes back the question I asked just above?
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1 hour ago, SQAAD said:I don't buy this whole scheme that we all should be confident and macho. Some people are naturally less dominant, less macho and much more feminine. Everyone has his own unique temperament. Imagine if you were to go to the gym, lift 50 pounds on the bench and some other people were making fun of you saying what a weakling you are.. ''You are not a real man unless you lift 300 pounds at least. Otherwise you are a pathetic weakling''. Stuff like that happens every day. Maybe you are fine with being so weak and lifting only 50 pounds at the bench. And you see nothing wrong with it. But no, now you have to change that to earn the approval of other men. Same analogy applies to pickup.
I am all about developing yourself and becoming more confident and removing all the toxic junk from someones childhood. But at the same time i see through all this facade in business, relationships and everywhere. Its all just an egoic attemp to manipulate reality so you can get the woman you want, the money you want etc. Its all about acting a certain way, saying the right words, pushing the right buttons. Its more about manipulation than is about authenticity.
Not even Leo can be authentic. He can't upload whatever he wants (like live trips) otherwise it will hurt his business. If you are authentic you don't go anywhere in life. Only the most egotistical, clever and manipulative people survive well in this world.
Most people change their ways just so they can fit into some certain box, and achieve a certain result. It usually doesn't come from some authentic desire. It is conformity. Let me act this way so i can get the girls i want, the money i want etc. Let me conform to what other people expect from me otherwise i am fked. Its a game nobody can avoid playing. I am not saying that one shouldnt play the game. My point is that its primarily all about manipulations and ploys.
When i take mushrooms i always see throught all this facade. All this fake bs. Nobody is truly authentic because it would hurt you survival. We are all ''money sees, monkey does''. Just being part of a society you have to be fake and inauthentic to a large extent in order to survive. You have to trim down the aspects of you that other egoic minds don't like, dont' approve. And enhance the aspects of you that other egoic minds will approve.
It's the whole authenticity vs attachment thing, but extended. That pattern doesn't stop at the end of childhood but gets reported on social groups who provides for your survival, as we are an interdependent specie.
We all got conditioned and molded into something that doesn't fit our subjective truth. Reconnecting with who we are beneath the persona, and re-organizing our life accordingly can totally temper the level of falsehood we deal with.
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5 hours ago, SQAAD said:This pickup business is not about being truly authentic and genuine to who you are. Its all a facade. Changing yourself to fit the criteria of other egoic minds so you are not perceived as ''creepy''. Changing how you truly are because you are afraid of getting rejected. Its just jumping throught hoops to achieve a certain result. It has nothing to do with authenticity. Pickup is all about doing whatever will work on the mind of a woman. Changing yourself to fit her needs and desires.
Leo is basically telling us that we shouldn't be the way we are. Otherwise we won't attract girls from the social matrix. That is the bottom line. Maybe my authentic self is the shy nerdy type.
But no, this is not acceptable. You have to fake it to someone else. And act all macho and confident even if you really don't want to. Imagine if you had to be shy to get laid, then you would just jump through hoops by doing the exact opposite. You would hide your machoness so you could get laid. lol.
You are doing whatever neccesary to manipulate the other person. Its manipulation and acting to get the desired result. You do what works. Not what is authentic. If you are authentic people don't like you.
Pickup is similar to Robert Greenes Laws of Power where you use techniques to manipulate the other people around you by acting. But i am not blaming pickup. It just doesn't sit well to many higher consciousness people to play all these egoic animalistic survival games. You have to play all these manipulations otherwise women don't respond well. Fake it until you make it. Truth & honesty won't get you laid.
Trying to attract girls through your persona is also how you'll get a high sample of incompatible ones. I agree that it's a waste of time.
If you manage to reconnect with your authentic self + develop all the lines that make people attractive (for both objective qualities and subjectives qualities) you should be able to attract women who corresponds you best, without having to go through faking anything to get into her mind.
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The points made by some of the guys are exactly spot on and show some common issues I see from Game.
What gets girls interested is a man who gets as close as possible to his true nature and then project his authentic signature outwards. Under the unhealthy aspects of your ego, you've got the holly grail you seek: your authentic self and it's truth. The authentic self is what has been usually buried under layers and layers of ego and self-deception. This needs to be progressively rediscovered, and actualized by taking actions and then by letting it unfold progressively, throughout various relevant development lines. I think this is perhaps what @Electron was talking about.
Game is a melting pot of several things. It looks for patterns, mindset, attitude, energy, physiological knowledge, psychological bias exploitation, logistics, tactics, etc, in order to get results. There are really tons of things being tapped on and put together.
Typically, from what I see, Game cross many elements which are part of a healthy development line (or rather many) and maps it on your behalf. This is why it strikes as so correct and obviously a lot of guy gets significantly empowered and manage to pin point where they've been so far off until then... A lot of guys have a mix of big development line holes and a lack of experiences. It's therefore very useful to hear about concepts like kino escalation to get how to touch a girl, be reminded to go approach girls and get rid of common misconceptions.
The main problem I notice, in guys who are getting into Game is that there is a lag between the pattern they try to emulate and themselves. Because so many of them come from a bereft place in the first place and haven't tapped deep enough in their authentic self, and focus on adding more stuff to themselves on an ego level. It's all just a facade. Their embodiment will be too superficial as not rooted in the real thing and similar as acting a role. And there is a form of duplicity occurring on the subjective level caused by an inner split between the two realities. If you want to have the real thing you'll got to work on many other life areas and get to the place where the split is unified... and that will not look like Game as talked by Leo.
Another thing that I see is that there will be the case of some men who will take it way too far, and only swear by pick up techniques. All actions they will take with a girl will be monitored through this lens. And to me, there is something off there, like playing a video game with a cheat code. And there first of all this duplicity and that strong impression that if the girl would know what he's up too (and thus his real experience behind the actions, words etc) she'd feel betrayed. And that's something which means real intimacy (intellectual, emotional, etc) between the two individuals is actually made harder. And this is the real reason why guys never dare to talk about pick up with girls.
If you want to be happy within a relationship, real intimacy is what you want, and that is also what the girl will want ultimately. Game is serious challenge to intimacy and vulnerability. I see a lot of guy chasing mirages and holding fake conceptions about male/female dynamics as true, and then try to embody that inauthentic crap.
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56 minutes ago, zazen said:@Etherial Cat @Preety_India @Tangerinedream
Would you rather have men be stronger and embody positive masculinity and social skills ensuring better quality men around for women or rather them not learn social skills (which Leo's latest video is trying to teach and help men with) and grow stronger. The reason for women needing to step into masculine traits at the expense of their femininity which comes more natural to them is because of weaker men in society (various factors for this, modern comfort, food lifestyle etc). This creates insecurity in women that if the men don't take up their positions to ensure a secure environment they'll have to. Hence the unease and women starting to dislike men for letting themselves go in the modern day. Men need to be allowed to discuss and improve, for women's sake and for societies sake and not be labelled toxic or misogynistic when they do. Of course it exists, but when most points are labelled with that, it stops discussion and growth.
The problem is that Game is used an umbrella word. So it's got everything in it: what I see as principles part of a healthy masculine attraction development line and pure garbage.
I will never blame men for making themselves attractive and learning the "white magic" of Game. I wrote posts on the subject in the past. So strong, positive masculinity with social skills is OBVIOUSLY encouraged. But this shouldn't necessarily be named "Game", as "Game" has heavy connotation with PUA culture.
Though, the behavior, technics and usage I see called as Game in here isn't always that. There is a lot of toxic shit going actually going against masculine improvement. It is this aspect of Game I abhorre and complain about.
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13 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:My point was not to focus on minutiae, but more as a general point to point out how we often present our intepretations as if they're feelings and then get surprised when others can't decipher the feelings we were wanting to express behind the intepretation.
Do you feel disempowered? Or uneasy? Or hurt? Maybe that's because you have a need for mutuality, or for inclusion, or communion and Leo talking about how to get laid is internally making you feel distant from those needs.
What you feel and what you need will be totally obvious to you, but I'm trying to help you spell it out more clearly (your feelings and needs) so maybe Leo and others can better understand and relate to your point of view instead of getting defensive.
Then if you want, you can also say what you would like (not demand) for Leo to do or to consider when making videos or comments in relation to which you feel disempowered (or whatever feeling). Only then we can go somewhere from the conflict, Leo can relate to your needs and feelings (since we all have them) and then that is the best possible space for him to change what he does, if he willingly wants to do so.
You're writing this post like something is wrong with me.
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5 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:It would be more constructive and relatable if you could express some feeling you had in relation to some specific statement.
What you stated is not a feeling, but an interpretation. And that is likely to cause more conflict, since someone else is likely to disagree with your intepretation. But no one can disagree with your emotion and if you say what specifically triggered that emotion in you, then people can relate much better.
Is it really pertinent to write back a comment relying on such minutiae, knowing there are plenty of individuals (including me) writing in english as a second language?
You should get the gist of what I mean, as it isn't rocket science. Game (as described by Leo) comes off to me as manipulative. And it is used primarily to get into woman's pants (isn't the video named "How to get laid"?).
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17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:What you define as "toxic" is based on your relative survival agenda.
If I see people here being disrepsectful to women they will be issued warnings.
I've issued 2 complains for seeing this type of post written by one of your mods.
While the posts themselves are obviously more cringy and stupid than anything else, I'm still wondering why no one has been blushing at that situation?
And why is this person still worthy of assessing whether a person deserves warnings or points taken after being caught writing such backwards bs?
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1 hour ago, Tangerinedream said:@Khr agree with everything you’re saying and it’s not the first time women have complained about the way leo speaks about women. He has also said several times he would change the way he speaks about women and show more compassion towards us but to no avail of course. Leo might understand the theory around attracting women to sleep with but he has no experience of a deep loving relationship, so he has no experience on how a loving relationship works. This forum is very unwelcoming for women, its not a place for feminine energy. When there are no women active on the forum it really does turn Into something from Reddit or an incel forum.
I do agree with this.
Actually, the day Leo released his video on "How to get laid", I thought about leaving the forum.
While the video itself was better than I expected, it still feels at the bottom like Leo is encouraging his followers to deceive women for the purpose of using them as handkerchief, regardless of feminine welfare.
I'm also not surprised to see many posts coming from a place of hurt and a feeling of betrayal, written by women since then. This seems to be the natural consequence coming from deciding to make of Game a golden standard.
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1 minute ago, somegirl said:He's not innocent dove at all lol. He's veeery social, but I like that he's that way. He keeps conversation going and it's never awkward!
However, if he's interested, I expect next move to come from his side. Because so far I've been initiating everything.Yeah. You can't keep on investing a lot of energy when he's putting some minimal effort.
Things needs to be rather even, otherwise he'll just assume you're his toy.
But It's already cool you guys met. That was all brave of you, to make this happen.
I'd just wait for him to initiate, now.
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On 27/10/2021 at 11:15 AM, somegirl said:I won't be teaching him, he said he had long term girlfriend.
6 minutes ago, somegirl said:Oh, he told you that? ? i didn't know.
Btw we talked about relationships too. We talked about the longest relationship he had. He also talked about girls and how he "screens" them for potential girlfriends in general. How, when he finds a girl attractive, he wants to find out everything about her, about her relationship history, friends she has... So he can see whay he's dealing with.
So I doubt he would talk about all that if he is in a relationship.
Ohhhh then, never mind the comment I made. I assumed he was in a relationship due to what you said above. ^
Then, the space is cleared. Wonderful!
Well, then... I'd still wait for him to make a move, now. This guy doesn't sound like an helpless innocent dove when it comes to girls. If he's interested enough he should write you, seriously. No excuses!
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He's got a long time girlfriend.
That's mostly your issue there. What is he going to do with the two of you?
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3 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:Feminism is destroying femininity so feminism is weakness ?
That guy is still a mod?
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A friend of mine had a feminist, artist prostitute as a grandmother.
There are some women who do this job and somewhat find a lot of beauty in it. Maybe try to find one of them.
You'll be a better client for her than most.
in Dating, Sexuality, Relationships, Family
Posted · Edited by Etherial Cat
It's not so much about your girlfriend than the wound you've got in your relationship with other men and the masculine hierarchy, then. You compare yourself to other men in relation to her. She's the proxy to that feeling and you project the resentment on that poor girl.
Maybe try to do some shadow work in that area. How much of an emotional reaction do you have when hearing the word beta? What is behind it? These sounds like great questions for some private introspection.