Both men and women are full of shit

[Pav]

7 hours ago, Francis777 said:

its about it being a game, not a transaction. It would get stale so fast if there wasn't this back and forth. Nothing would be satisfying.

If you could only have sex with hookers for the rest of your life and didn't have to charm them at all, you would beg for the chase back, that's where the fun is! besides the sex of course.

I'm not sure I agree about this. We're genetically predisposed to enjoy sex with people we find attractive. I've had sex come to me easily before and it was fucking good. All these games that the average man has to go through is just an annoyance and leads to frustration. Sex with a hooker is very different from having sex with someone who genuinely desires you.

It seems many people want their to be some explanation or meaning for their hardships, but honestly the modern dating environment in the west is very skewed against men. This doesn't make it more worth it, it just sucks, and if we're honest to ourselves I'm sure most of us would want it to be fairer. So many men now days are deprived of sex and intimacy, this is simply a horrible position be in in your life, I wouldn't want this for myself and I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Having gone long period of time deprived of sex to now being able to have sex with more ease and frequency, I can definitively say I much prefer being able to have access to sexual intimacy, I do not want to go back to having it be hard to have sex.

7 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Someone here hahah game is in everything you just use word game to manipulate situations and since you dont have identity,no self worth,dont know your value you would do anything for sex ,so i dont respect you ,you would stab me in a back if you could for a woman,me being humble no you should humble yourself and realize you dont love yourself...

You're reading a bit much into his comments. I don't think we can make such judgements of his character based off of a few forum posts.

6 hours ago, Shawn Philips said:

Game is the coping mechanism of bad genetics. Really good looking people dont need game, even if they were autists would attractive. If not attractive you need social magic skills to be funny and cool at least.

This is true, as much as the people on here don't want to admit it. Girls will make it very easy for handsome guys to have sex with them; women want to have sex with attractive guys, there's no shit tests or games being played with them. Having lost a decent amount of weight recently I can attest that my success with women is drastically different now, it's like being in a completely different reality.

 

6 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Shawn Philips No, cope is that you feel like your appearence has to do with how you feel about yourself, since you have no game ofcourse you would think its outside things but its all internal...

Just not true. The primary factor in determining your attractiveness to women is your looks. Confidence, charisma, energy, and other personality factors play a significant role too, but not as much as your looks. A handsome man will benefit even more from these factors but it's not require for them, all they need to do is act like a normal human being and have enough confidence to physically escalate and they will get sex quite easily. For an average looking man it will be a lot more difficult to have sex, they need to compensate with "game" in order to get laid, and even then they won't get as good results an attractive man. For a very unattractive or obese man no amount of "game" will help them (would you have sex with an obese and unattractive women if they had a great personality? Why are we trying make it out as if women are pure angels who only care about a man's personality?).

6 hours ago, Francis777 said:

no amount of good looks is going to make you a fun person to be around, which is what girls want.

They want to have sex with attractive men. Being fun is great and will help you to socialise, but if they don't find you attractive they still won't want to have sex with you no matter how fun you are. They may use you for entertainment and then go home with someone they are attracted to.

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I don't really believe this, infact, that's not how attraction works. Good looking? Good looking to whom. Put 10 pictures up and you will have different opinions as to who finds who attractive and good looking.

Not true. There will be some variance in how attractive people find a particular person, for example if you take a conventionally attractive man there will be a few women (out of say 100) who will find him unattractive but the overwhelming consensus will be that he is attractive. People are attracted to physically good looking people, there is an abundance of research in the scientific literature supporting this. Why do we have to lie about this simply and obvious fact?

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

An "ugly" (just for communication purposes because I donlt see people as ugly), an ugly person can see themselves as quite attractive and get more dates than someone physically attractive who don't view themselves as that, and that goes for both male and female

Yeah this is bull shit. An ugly person will not magically get amazing results just by lying to themselves about their attractiveness. The fact that you claim to not see people as ugly goes to show how much you lie and deceive yourself. We all (cross-culturally) have a sense of how beautiful someone is. You are not some special pure being who is above this, you're a human. Why lie?

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

 but more towards the male side since men usually go for looks first.

Women are just as or probably even more concerned with looks than men. Research shows that when it comes to hook ups women have very high standard for looking when choosing someone to have sex with, whereas men are willing to have sex with women who are less attractive than themselves. When it comes to relationships men will have higher standards for looks than when looking to hook up. Women have a minimum looks threshold which a man must meet in order for her to even consider him a potential partner, this is before he even has a chance to display other personality traits.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Pav

[Princess Arabia]

31 minutes ago, Pav said:

Yeah this is bull shit. An ugly person will not magically get amazing results just by lying to themselves about their attractiveness. The fact that you claim to not see people as ugly goes to show how much you lie and deceive yourself. We all (cross-culturally) have a sense of how beautiful someone is. You are not some special pure being who is above this, you're a human. Why lie?

This just shows your ignorance. I have or am in the process of seeing the beauty of God's creation everywhere, My level of Awareness and States of Consciousness are not the same as they used to be so the lie would be for me to call people ugly. You are calling me out and sound so angry in the process. I don't have to pretend to not see ugliness in people to seem special. I am very open and vocal on this forum and don't have a problem exposing my true feelings about anything. You have never heard me call anyone ugly, except for in the term I used it to make a point so why are you telling me about how I view things. That's limiting because you don't know that, you're assuming. I do not like the word ugly anymore. I didn't say I don't see attractiveness in people, I just don't call people ugly. I never even used to before I became Spiritually inclined that much either. That's it. No more explanation on that.

I've seen men choose females that weren't so attractive over really attractive ones because of their confidence levels and the energy they exude. They thought they were the shit and it showed. I didn't say they were lying to themselves, I said they thought they were attractive, while the so-called attractive one didn't. There is a lot of psychology that goes into attraction. No need to say my opinion is bullshit, it's just an opinion. 

A woman can look at a male and judge parts his personality from that alone, not saying she's right but that's really what she's doing.  She can see through his insecurities or weaknesses just from his body language or even how he dresses,. You hear that on this forum alot also, how women can sense certain things. Men don't usually care about that at first, they usually go for the one they are physically attracted to at first, while the woman is looking for emotional attraction and doing it by how he looks.

Why do you keep using the word lie. People believe different things, studies or not, Sounds like you had someone constantly lie to you and you're projecting that or vice versa. No need to call people liars for their opinions and expressions. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Pav]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

This just shows your ignorance.

Very pretentious of you.

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

I have or am in the process of seeing the beauty of God's creation everywhere, My level of Awareness and States of Consciousness are not the same as they used to be so the lie would be for me to call people ugly.

Good for you. Seeing beauty in an absolute sense is not the same as what we are talking about here when it comes to attraction between the sexes. When it comes to attraction we are judging relative human perception of beauty on the level of the physical. Sex is a very primal thing, not something divine.

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

I do not like the word ugly anymore. I didn't say I don't see attractiveness in people, I just don't call people ugly.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the word, you still judge people based on their appearance. To deny this is self deceit.

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

I've seen men choose females that weren't so attractive over really attractive ones because of their confidence levels and the energy they exude. They thought they were the shit and it showed. I didn't say they were lying to themselves, I said they thought they were attractive, while the so-called attractive one didn't. There is a lot of psychology that goes into attraction. No need to say my opinion is bullshit, it's just an opinion.

There are exceptions and other factors play a role too, but there is a strong correlation between an individual's physical attractiveness and that of their partner, ie. people usually pair with people who are around the same level of attractiveness as themselves. Appearance is the biggest variable when it comes to dating.

I say it's bull shit because very misleading and will lead men astray, possibly even dangerous. For someone who is very unattractive to approach a girl and just act confident can lead to very negative interactions with him being labeled a creep. Women generally love it when an attractive guy approaches them, but will look at the very unattractive guy with utter disdain and contempt if he does. The average guy will usually get a soft rejection, such as "I have a boy friend", unless he happens to be her type or if be can bring something else to the table such as charisma, "game", or status. It's sad that reality is like this and I would prefer it to be different. Men would be better served by first doing what they can to improve their looks as much as is possible for them.

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

A woman can look at a male and judge parts his personality from that alone, not saying she's right but that's really what she's doing.  She can see through his insecurities or weaknesses just from his body language or even how he dresses,. You hear that on this forum alot also, how women can sense certain things. Men don't usually care about that at first, they usually go for the one they are physically attracted to at first, while the woman is looking for emotional attraction and doing it by how he looks.

No they can't, not accurately. It takes time to really know someone, you cannot make an accurate judgement of someone by looking at them. Women do not possess some magical power, they are just human beings. They are making assumptions about their personality (which will usually turn out to be wrong). Women are attracted to physical appearance first, not "emotional attraction", again stop lying to guys about this, you are doing them a great disservice. It is much better that men get accurate information so that they can do what they can to improve their situation.

Have you heard of the halo effect? Women will attribute positive personality characteristics to the conventionally attractive guy, and negative characteristics to the unattractive guy. Looks are one of the primary factors which determines the personality judgements women make.

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Why do you keep using the word lie. People believe different things, studies or not, Sounds like you had someone constantly lie to you and you're projecting that or vice versa. No need to call people liars for their opinions and expressions. 

Yeah people like you lied when I looked for advice on how to fix my dating situation. Just changing my mindset to see myself as more attractive didn't work. What actually worked was improving my looks. Very big night and day difference in how women (and men too) treat me now as compared to when I was over weight. It's pretty sad that people are so superficial, but that's just how reality is.

We need to start being honest to men about what actually attracts women so that they can take the correct steps to improving their situation. And for those men who are unfortunate to have been born with unchangeable flaws to their appearance, you can at least stop gaslighting them in telling them it's their personality or mindset.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Pav

[Princess Arabia]

52 minutes ago, Pav said:

Very pretentious of you.

Good for you. Seeing beauty in an absolute sense is not the same as what we are talking about here when it comes to attraction between the sexes. When it comes to attraction we are judging relative human perception of beauty on the level of the physical. Sex is a very primal thing, not something divine.

It doesn't matter if you don't like the word, you still judge people based on their appearance. To deny this is self deceit.

There are exceptions and other factors play a role too, but there is a strong correlation between an individual's physical attractiveness and that of their partner, ie. people usually pair with people who are around the same level of attractiveness as themselves. Appearance is the biggest variable when it comes to dating.

I say it's bull shit because very misleading and will lead men astray, possibly even dangerous. For someone who is very unattractive to approach a girl and just act confident can lead to very negative interactions with him being labeled a creep. Women generally love it when an attractive guy approaches them, but will look at the very unattractive guy with utter disdain and contempt if he does. It's sad that reality is like this and I would prefer it to be different. They would be better served by first doing what they can to improve their looks as much as is possible for them.

No they can't, not accurately. It take time to really know someone, you cannot make an accurate judgement of someone by looking at them. Women do not possess some magical power, they are just human beings. They are making assumptions about their personality (which will usually turn out to be wrong). Women are attracted to physical appearance first, not "emotional attraction", again stop lying to guys about this, you are doing them a great disservice. It is much better that men get accurate information so that they can do what they can to improve their situation.

Have you heard of the halo effect? Women will attribute positive personality characteristics to the conventionally attractive guy, and negative characteristics to the attractiveness guy. Looks are one of the primary factors which determines the personality judgements women make.

Yeah people like you lied when I looked for advice on how to fix my dating situation. Just changing my mindset to see myself as more attractive didn't work. What actually worked was improving my looks. Very big night and day difference in how women (and men too) treat me now as compared to when I was over weight. It's pretty sad that people are so superficial, but that's just how reality is.

We need to start being honest to men about what actually attracts women so that they can take the correct steps to improving their situation. And for those men who are unfortunate to have been born with unchangeable flaws to their appearance, you can at least stop gaslighting them in telling them it's their personality or mindset.

I refuse to get into a debate with you. It would probably have been more productive if you weren't projecting your own insecurities unto me, especially saying people like you lied. People like who. I never said looks weren't important to some women but it's usually in a different way than how men see looks. Nobody has to start doing anything. You are your own authority. Nobody owes you any explanation as to how to get laid easier. You figure that out by yourself. One size doesn't fit all. I won't even bother to comment on the other rebuttals, since I'm just being judged by a mind that wants to box me into it's own definition of who it thinks i am and into believing that I see the world as the majority sees it. 

Plus you even said the same thing I said in regards to women judging men's personality by their looks. So you're just venting, which I'm not available for.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Tenebroso]

@Pav You said a lot of what I wanted to say. I live in a major world city. Women are dating the most attractive or the most high status wealthy. If a man is the rare combination of very attractive and wealthy, he has no incentive to settle down and women basically then exist in harems or what women now call a situationships. The women who can't get into the orbit of these kinds of men would rather be alone. Men are pragmatic we follow what works, looksmaxxing/glow up videos have exploded on youtube because it is clear physically attractive men live in a different world romantically. Also women are now admitting they ignore direct messages from men on instagram unless he has a blue tick.

I went to a school connected to a professional sports team. At age 16 promising athletes who were trialling to win a professional contract for the sports team would attend my school for the yea. I remember this as being the moment where I witnessed how women behave when they have real desire for a man, suddenly all the walls and stiffness they have disappears and they can't contain themselves. I always remember the looks on the girls faces whenever these guys walked past. Later in the year some of the athletes were having sex parties with my peers, women I had known since I was 11 became these playthings and of course none of these situations produced a relationship but I bet their views of men were formed by the experiences they had with these men who live in a different world.

I read a story today about hotels being frustrated by athletes organizing sex parties with lines of women waiting in the lobby for their turn. Modern dating has created a vast gap between the have's and have nots, it's feast or famine. Often men are given the advice "you only need to find one" but life does not work that way if you can't attract many you probably can't attract any and if you did somehow attract someone you are compatible with you would screw up since you are so inexperienced and lacking in sexual confidence. There is a really difficult loop that is hard to get out of as an unattractive man.

I do believe there is a relationship between the mind, self-perception and external reality but it is far more nuanced than become a kind, good, enlightened person and you will be attractive. Even the high conscious women are still attracted to the most physically attractive men. Society also refuses to accept that dark triad traits trigger real desire in women. I have never heard a dangerous, actually terrible man having issues attracting women. If morality and consciousness is so important then why is this the case. I think modern life and technology has taken the masks of human dynamics and ironically and we are seeing each other in our most naked form as we did in a primitive past. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tenebroso

[StarStruck]

There will always be a game of natural selection. Instead of typing such incel messages you should develop yourself and you will see getting laid is as easy as those dogs do. You don’t need game. It is just difficult for you and you assume it is difficult for everybody. Men aren’t taught the true nature of women. Even on this high LOC forum one can’t say the truth so I won’t. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by StarStruck

[Schizophonia]

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like if we were like cats.
Like in high school a schedule where people stop working and "clean themselves", me licking my balls while my friend licks his girlfriend's ass while pulling out the excess hair.
Lol

[Merkabah Star]

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why do we need "game" at all ? Look at animals like cats ..they meet and they immediately befriend each other and get laid.

Whereas humans ..both men and women play infinite tricks to get into each other's pants ..it's fake and disgusting.. maybe in a million years from now men and women would meet and just say "hey ..you look sexy ..let’s FUCK "!

 

I think I read your thread where you said you are a Muslim, so this is very uncouth talk for a Muslim. 
 

im my neighbourhood it’s not uncommon to say you look sexy let’s f. Maybe you need to travel and get out more. ?

[Buck Edwards]

If your only objective with women is to get laid, then you can easily find and pay hookers and escorts. Paying them will help them earn some money too. I guess you want free sex. Lol. 

If you told a hooker that you won't be paying her, she will be angry.

Sex is like food and entertainment. You can't get it for free. You gotta give something to get something. In this case, you gotta work hard to be a bf to a woman, wife a woman or pay a hooker for sex. 

You gotta do at least one of those options. 

Sex has never been free. You should know it. 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[Merkabah Star]

Ok OP, you live in Delhi, India, I just read on page 2. Explains a lot. ?

Indian men are so sexually frustrated. In western cities it’s not that hard to get laid.

[Buck Edwards]

Plus making a woman feel like you're getting sex from her without actually doing anything in return makes women feel exploited or taken advantage of. Women rarely open their legs to men. So when they do, there's some expectations there that you gotta fulfill for them. 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura Okay deal, if thats the case im just going to ignore the threads if someone gets demoralize from strangers messages then game is not for them,im passionate about this topic ?

[flowboy]

On 15/10/2023 at 7:48 AM, Someone here said:

Why do we need "game" at all ? Look at animals like cats ..they meet and they immediately befriend each other and get laid.

Whereas humans ..both men and women play infinite tricks to get into each other's pants ..it's fake and disgusting.. maybe in a million years from now men and women would meet and just say "hey ..you look sexy ..let’s FUCK "!

 

Lazy thinking. You're the philosopher, you must have read some books about evolutionary psychology and how men and women are wired to be differently motivated because of the responsibility of pregnancy etc.

For us guys, any sex is okay sex. It's like pizza.

For a woman, if she's not attracted to your perceived personal qualities, it's no good.

So she has to be thinking you're either successful in some way, or have the personality traits that will make you successful at some point.

Because sex with a loser is not enjoyable for the woman.

[Princess Arabia]

4 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura Okay deal, if thats the case im just going to ignore the threads if someone gets demoralize from strangers messages then game is not for them,im passionate about this topic ?

Aww, don't be like that. Remember the time you and i had a discussion about game and relationships. It very respectful even though we opposed on certain things. You explained to me what game was from your perspective and you asked me to explain mine. It was respectful because neither one of us attacked either's character. That's the difference.

Someone_here can be very disrespectful in the way he communicates at times but attacking someone's character will definitely bring resentment and a need to defend. I know you're passionate about this topic because you mostly comment on it, and I do like your stance on gaming because it shows you're not just out to get laid from it, and don't treat women as objects just there to satisfy men's sexual cravings, so it's not about just not commenting, and I think we can have strong arguments in opposition, but forum member will probably feel a bit more intimidated by a mod's attack for fearing being banned for defending themselves against such attacks. That's my take on it.

[Princess Arabia]

8 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

If your only objective with women is to get laid, then you can easily find and pay hookers and escorts. Paying them will help them earn some money too. I guess you want free sex. Lol. 

If you told a hooker that you won't be paying her, she will be angry.

Sex is like food and entertainment. You can't get it for free. You gotta give something to get something. In this case, you gotta work hard to be a bf to a woman, wife a woman or pay a hooker for sex. 

You gotta do at least one of those options. 

Sex has never been free. You should know it. 

 

It's not the same for some men, especially young attractive ones. Some men thinks it's desperation to see hookers or only old fat, bald guys who can't get laid, so that would be a slap in his face to do that, and his self-esteem would plummet if that's the only kind of women he was able to attract. He's a sex addict so total up the cost. No, that's not an option for him and neither should it have to.

It's not about sex has never been free, it's about feeling entitled to a woman's body that you're not invested in, in whichever way that investment entails. Then some men just throw them away and discard them like a piece of trash meat. 

[Something Funny]

@NoSelfSelf what makes you so passionate about it?

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

For us guys, any sex is okay sex. It's like pizza.

This is why I stopped having casual sex. I don't want to become a slice of pizza. My body is too precious to be looked at like a slice of pizza. I'd rather get paid because not even pizza is free. Don't care what anyone says. Not saying my body is something special than anybody else's and I don't have a moral issue when it comes to these things but just to be having pizza and beer for the hell of it will require something other than for the thrill. Marriage is still an investment so I'm not worried about that and having a bf would have to be serious before any pizza is eaten.

So if guys want to come to the pizza parlor and place an order along with some beer and French fries, then be prepared for the Time Share experience. Listening to most you guys talk about sex has strengthened my stance even more and this coming from you says a lot because you always give good advice and are respectable. So, it's not the respect level or treating women like sex objects i'm opposed to, it's how they view sex it's like a recreation habit, food for the stomach, anyhow, anywho, so, for me it's any how much. Here comes the haters. Don't care.

[flowboy]

39 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

So, it's not the respect level or treating women like sex objects i'm opposed to, it's how they view sex it's like a recreation habit, food for the stomach, anyhow, anywho, so, for me it's any how much.

Makes sense to me. Yes I’m not referring to how I claim every guy *thinks* about it, some of us respect women very much and do everything right. Still I’m referring to the way it *feels*: we can enjoy the experience without any emotional investment, and we tend to get surprised that it’s not that way from the other side.

I also don’t mean that sex can’t be special and more meaningful with a special person, of course it is. There are two kinds of sex we can enjoy, with or without a connection. They’re different but both are enjoyable and we don’t regret them generally. So that’s different for women usually, where it feels more like a huge upfront emotional investment and the casual pleasure is not enough on its own to make it worth it. It has to be a really great person, who is really interesting and there is long term potential.

Generally speaking. There are exceptions, such as women with a particular kind of childhood trauma which makes them seek out casual sex for validation or as a patch for loneliness. But they don’t tend to feel great afterwards, it’s just a compulsion.

And there are women who have a lot of masculine energy in them who tend to enjoy casual sex much more because of that.

A misunderstanding women often have with men, is “if it feels important to me, it must feel just as important and special to you”, and that hurts when it’s not true. But I have also fallen into that, where I really wanted to build a connection and it was just a casual encounter for the woman, which felt more special to me. 
 

The best way to avoid that pain is really still to make sure someone is invested emotionally before doing it. That’s hard for many people because they have a need for validation, companionship and also simply for physical touch. So the ideal way to go about it is usually only feasible with a great childhood, or having done some deep therapy, or just a lot of discipline.

[Buck Edwards]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's not about sex has never been free, it's about feeling entitled to a woman's body that you're not invested in, in whichever way that investment entails. Then some men just throw them away and discard them like a piece of trash meat. 

When I said sex was never free, I didn't mean in a financial way. I meant that sex needs work. To be sexually attractive to someone. To get their attention. To give them attention. To be worthy of their attention and space in their hearts. When you win someone, it's easy to get sex, whether you're man or woman, sex is the culmination of the hard work you put in. Why should it be given away to someone who has put in no effort. Then sex will have no inherent value. Sex produces intimacy for the man, also for the woman. Why should such intimacy be thrown away at random like bread crumbs. Sex is especially important to women. Sex will never exist for nothing. It's available to those who put the right effort to get it. Both men and women. This means having or creating your dream relationship, having the courage to approach, having the courage to explore romantic experiences, carefully crafting your path around your sexual needs, having the commitment needed to marry someone you like, or at least having the audacity to be with a hooker. Some people don't even want to step out of their door. Why should someone like that deserve sex? Sex is a pleasurable activity. To attain this pleasure also needs a bit of work. Whether it's money or work or anything else, everything in this world is transactional. 

 

[Buck Edwards]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's not about sex has never been free, it's about feeling entitled to a woman's body that you're not invested in,

This is a good point. I'll remember it.