New War In Israel / Gaza

[nuwu]

Quotes from A. Einstein 

Quote

In my opinion, condemning the Zionist movement as "nationalistic" is unjustified. Consider the path by which Herzl came to his mission. Initially he had been completely cosmopolitan. But during the Dreyfus trial in Paris he suddenly realized with great clarity how precarious was the situation of the Jews in the western world. And courageously he drew the conclusion that we are discriminated against or murdered not because we are Germans, Frenchmen, Americans, etc. of the "Jewish faith" but simply because we are Jews. Thus already our precarious situation forces us to stand together irrespective of our citizenship.

Initially, Israel's invention was not solely biblical, but possibly traumatic. Western society has evolved plenty throughout time, it's unclear how much of which translate to present. Latent resentments and aggressions on jews are still very real, however other identities have their own difficulties. Nobody deserves to feel invalidated.

Quote

Standardization robs life of its spice. To deprive every ethnic group of its special traditions is to convert the world into a huge Ford plant. I believe in standardizing automobiles. I do not believe in standardizing human beings. 

There are potential counter-arguments. Standardization shifts individual idiosyncrasies and creative expressions toward subsequent layers of distinction. The end-game is not uniformity, but higher potentials evolving out of arguably boring baby games. 

Quote

All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man's life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. 

Does there truly exist an insuperable contradiction between religion and science? Can religion be superseded by science? The answers to these questions have, for centuries, given rise to considerable dispute and, indeed, bitter fighting. Yet, in my own mind there can be no doubt that in both cases a dispassionate consideration can only lead to a negative answer.

Even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies. [...] Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

What is the meaning of human life, or of organic life altogether? To answer this question at all implies a religion.

The more I study science, the more I believe in God.

He seems to value religions as cultural | systemic artistry, perhaps signaling insufficient awareness of belief systems rooted within ever-deeper layers of material and allegedly spiritual experiences. No distinction may equate no game, there are small bits of truth in attachment to meaning interlacement between religion and science, nevertheless for the wrong reasons. Harmonious elevation of global meta-cognitive awareness decreases requirements of wasteful survival thoughts, superseding the purpose of cultural inertial transitional structures. `You can be anything that you want.`

Quote

Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind, and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world. 

The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.

Anonymity is no excuse for stupidity.

God doesn't play dice.

The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained to liberation from the self.

If I hadn't an absolute faith in the harmony of creation, I wouldn't have tried for thirty years to express it in a mathematical formula. [...] I want to know how God created this world. I'm not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details.

On a side note, his views of metaphysics were notably advanced relative to epoch.

Quote

Socialism is directed towards a social-ethical end. [...] We should be on our guard not to overestimate science and scientific methods when it is a question of human problems; and we should not assume that experts are the only ones who have a right to express themselves on questions affecting the organization of society.

AE expresses concerns about algorithmic orders, not my problem.

@AerisVahnEphelia Spiral wizardry has to account for intermediate evolutionary race conditions. Replacing a set of bias with another less developed set isn't practical. `The problem with being a baby is that you have competition.` — Meow Gwura

Edited October 15, 2023 by nuwu

[Danioover9000]

   Bring back Trump, make him president again, he'll stop this madness:

 

[nuwu]

@Danioover9000 OwO he is really coming back in 2024, isn't he...

[TheAlchemist]

 

[randmonzzin]

If this situation escalates further, it could potentially involve Iran, with support from Russia and China ( like proxy war). This would lead to oil prices skyrocketing and essential commodities such as gas, similar to the repercussions we've seen from the Ukraine war.
this could have negative consequences for people worldwide, Aka normal people get mad with U.S. policies.  second-order and third-order consequences for Gaza Genocide.

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, ramosthe5 said:

If this situation escalates further, it could potentially involve Iran, with support from Russia and China ( like proxy war). This would lead to oil prices skyrocketing and essential commodities such as gas, similar to the repercussions we've seen from the Ukraine war.
this could have negative consequences for people worldwide, Aka normal people get mad with U.S. policies.  second-order and third-order consequences for Gaza Genocide.

You are getting your takes from Dugin?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, ramosthe5 said:

Lol, Dugin Rube Goldbergs his way into Armaggedon.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura What do you think Israel's approach should be to the hostages?

The hostages will not survive this. 12 are already confirmed killed. Israel is not being honest about this. If they wanted to save hostages they wouldn't be bombing so ruthlessly.

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

US directly bombed civilians in baghdad and the muslims did not react so violently. It is in Israel where his desire for revenge will be concentrated. US is too strong and it's too far. And nobody want to seriously anger US  given the consequences

Jihadists want to provoke and punish the US very much. They like the chaos it creates.

The US needs to play a less biased role, otherwise it will become a target. It's gonna look so bad if US is seen as fully backing a genocide of Arabs without any call for restraint. Biden needs to publically tell Israel to chill and tread carefully. Israel has gone berzerk on the dancefloor and Biden is clapping them on with drunk abandon.

I think Arabs will get uniquly pissed off at the images from Gaza. The optics of it will look so bad. To them the images will look as bad as the videos of Hamas killing babies looked in the West.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Jihadists want to provoke and punish the US very much. They like the chaos it creates.

5 hours ago, Nabd said:

 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

5 hours ago, Starlight321 said:

 

 

Really yes, they managed US like a puppet with minimal expense.

[Vrubel]

46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The hostages will not survive this. 12 are already confirmed killed. Israel is not being honest about this. If they wanted to save hostages they wouldn't be bombing so ruthlessly

I just want an end to their suffering, This whole thing has put life for me in perspective and took away a certain innocence from me. Quick Death, quick closure is a blessing a 1000* better than the hell that is unfolding. I take comfort in that the people who saw their kids or parents tortured are dead now. What is the point of living after having survived such a thing?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Vrubel

[Scholar]

Emperor Joe Biden got Israel to resume the flow of water into Gaza:

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

the people who saw their kids or parents tortured are

I don't think we have evidence of torture.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

@Leo Gura Oh man I wish you were right. The people who examine the dead bodies found signs of the most inhumane torture imaginable on many of the bodies. Rape and severed limbs definitely confirmed, all in a family unit. I will never look at the world the same.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Vrubel

[Scholar]

I've had a discussion with someone on how to advocate for the palestinian people in Gaza right now, and it seems Biden has done exactly as I had recommended:

The reality of the situation is that Israel is in the position of power. People who, after what happened to Israel, try to put all the blame on Israel and use it as an opportunity to call out their atrocities, and focus on how Hamas is only an expression of valid palestinian frustration against the evil imperial apartheid state, are in my opinion only increasing the potential for war and unnecessary death right now.

No matter who is at fault, Israel right now is in a rage after what happened to it. If you want to help palestinians, you must show compassion to Israel, you must condemn Hamas and you must clarify that palestinian civilians are not Hamas and do not support Hamas and believe Hamas is disgusting and must be destroyed. That should have been the rally call of all Palestinian advocates, to show Israel that they have a united enemy.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

@Scholar That's not enough though. Biden needs to publically tell Israel that US support is conditional on Israel showing restraint. That's the key missing piece.

The US is gonna look so bad after the civilian death toll in Gaza shoots past 10,000.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Biden needs to remind Natenyahu that they funded Hamas.

What difference will that make? He knows and he’s glad he did, they accomplished his desired goal, the Palestinian state is probably dead. The only error he made is not paying enough attention to security and the damage hamas caused might force him to resign if he gets blamed for it.

[Vrubel]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Scholar That's not enough though. Biden needs to publically tell Israel that US support is condition on Israel showing restraint. That's the key missing piece.

That's so naive. The pressure on Israel is already enormous from the US/West. The massacres in Israel only lasted for a few days but the bombings in Gaza will last at least a month, probably more. This pressure will only grow. If you say to Israel that support is conditional you'll make Israel feel more unsafe and they'll lash out even more. For Israelis, it is a psychological comfort that the US has those big deck ships nearby and that Iran has no nukes yet. But even so, they'll always know that when push comes to shove, they're on their own. What needs to happen is for the international community to comfort Israel with all kinds of guarantees. For example, the Saudis could say, Oke: destroy Hamas but if you show visible restraint we'll reward you with normalized relations. But of course, the opposite happens. Talking is done with the stick rather than the carrot.

I think Biden has handled this crisis very well so far. He is doing all the right things. Don't underestimate how much Influence America has over Israel when it comes to security. The big leverage of America is that they legitimately can guarantee Israel's security, so don't underestimate how much Israel is being kept in check.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Vrubel

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Biden needs to remind Natenyahu that they funded Hamas.

So you really think iran and israel work together?

that‘s a wild theory

[Scholar]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Scholar That's not enough though. Biden needs to publically tell Israel that US support is conditional on Israel showing restraint. That's the key missing piece.

The US is gonna look so bad after the civilian death toll in Gaza shoots past 10,000.

I don't know how viable that is considering the US has to basically have unwavering support for Israel so as to not provoke other actors to join the war, including Iran.

The US has to support Israel, even if 50k Gazans will die. So even if they say it is conditional, they would in the end have to support Israel either way, which would then make their threat look empty, while having given room for other actors to feel comfortable enough to escalate the war.

 

From what I understand Israel is behaving exceptionally careful in this, contrary to how it is being reported. I do expect a large number of casualities even under optimal conditions. You also have to consider, if the US was in this position, the Gaza strip would be dust already. I wager the US has an understanding that "What needs to be done, needs to be done.".

[docs20]

 

Some of Netanyahu's view in interviews that date less than 1 year ago.