Been trying to quit porn/do NoFap for a long time, in these circles, they recommend..

[OBEler]

i cannot see clear with my eyes after jerking off too many times

[Osaid]

Jerking off stole my car and killed my whole family

[StarStruck]

Porn is not natural. Why? I can't be found in nature. Simple as that. Porn is a super natural stimuli and your body and mind can't cope with this. This is the case for most men from my exp.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by StarStruck

[Danioover9000]

@oldhandle

On 01/09/2023 at 0:40 AM, oldhandle said:

They recommend going 90 days without sexuality so that you can reboot your brain, and not as easily fall back into sexual compulsion. It makes sense from a dopamine perspective. 

However, I am tired of failing, if I have a one night stand before I get to 90 days, great, I didn't jerk off or use porn, but I typically end up faltering and doing that a few days after as the "chaser effect" ends up happening and I crave sexuality.

So now I've started dating a girl, and I don't want to wait 90 days to have sex with her, I mean, she just got me off an hour ago at my house (not sex but use your imagination how she did it). My thinking though, is if I actually DATE a girl, I can get rid of porn/nofap this way - my approach was wrong before because I would have one night stands, and then, when the sex wasnt available again, I'd falter and use porn/fap. But if I actually date someone, consistently, which I know, weirdly, is a kind of new concept for me, then I think I can put this type of sexuality that I don't want to do anymore (porn and one player sex) away for good. 

I am asking here specifically because it's not a nofap/quitting porn forum, so I'm sure people will criticize the nofap ideas, but I want multiple perspectives. Thanks!

   You have to keep in mind that the NoFap movement is geared towards teenagers and men who are addicted to this cycle of P.M.O, porn, masturbating, and orgasm, especially this dependency of porn to fapping, then porn to fapping again. Also pornography, and must fap while consuming some pornography material, AKA a type of OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, but onto porn and masturbating. Men, and some boys, who watch porn and masturbating many times a day, think 5 to 10 times or slightly more even 20 times, that some may also suffer from porn indust erectile dysfunction. If this profile fits your situation, then you are the movements intended audience.

   IMO, the actual lesson from NoFap  is greater responsibility and ownership of your sexual cravings and sexuality, and developing the ability to masturbate with just your thoughts only, or just facing a dry wall of nothing externally sexually stimulating. When you feel more sensitive on your penis head,and when you get the 'morning wood' IMO is a safer time to masturbate, as that's the body and brain biological signals that sperm liquid is building up a bit and must release sooner or later. This point I don't consider a failure, it is fine to 'relapse',  and assuming you fit the bill for high dependence on porn and fapping, very strong sexual cravings, then expect to fail often. It makes sense to expect high failure, because what were you doing in your younger years in your bedroom and in the bathroom? Likely fapping tons, and being sneaky about your porn viewing, for months to years and years to then it being a habit hard wired witb your need to procreate. You take pleasure in not just the porn and fappjng, but it's likely a taboo activity, that your parents punished you for in some way, but at the same time that taboo and forbidding adds to that pleasure. Remember it's more psychological and less biological that created this steong attachment to porn and fappjng, one of many ways your mind can turn anything to pleasure.

   Okay, so far, I intuit you may not have as much a problem with porn, as you're dating, did one night stands, even having a girlfriend, so I can assume you are actually doing well so far, relatively speaking with women, have little to no issues with real sex. One thing to watch out for, is if you dating and fucking real women is a replacement for your porn dependency, you just want to defeat this bad habit, and rush the introspection and contemplation process of your psychology, then the having real sex becomes itself another crutch for your mind, and a more subtle way for your mind to further sexually objectifh women, as anotber means to fulfill those sex cravings. Another example is how you try to say your GF relieving isn't sex. Nopez that's a sexual act, yes technically a hand job or BJ js not penetrative sex, but just because it's not doesn't mean it isn't a sexual act. See how your mind did a reframe? Watch out for those distractions and psychological tactics your mind does. 

   Few more tips, fine to keel track of the days, just don't prioritize the NUMBERS, prioritize HOW YOU FEEL AND THINK ABOUT YOU AND YOUR SEXUALITY. Top concern is you and your buddy's relationship, not maths. And fap after morning woods, sleep, nutrition and rest.

   

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Porn is not natural. Why? I can't be found in nature. Simple as that. Porn is a super natural stimuli and your body and mind can't cope with this. This is the case for most men from my exp.

 

   Technically, pornography is natural in that it is social engineering, when a society is further domesticating and making men on average more docile and less wild like, less animalistic. That the intended purpose of pornography, to capture and provide a safety net to women by tiring out men's cravings, overwise you end up like with the alcohol prohibition in America. People wanted alcohol, government wanted to ban and did, then the free markets adjusted and increased black market interest in alcohol, whicb led to mafias earning more money all because of prohibition of alcohol, they paradoxically created more capitalism for alcohol but in black markets.

   The real issue is more excess of stage orange porn industry businesses, when capitalism becomes predatory and exploits sex for profit gain, marketing, and further enforce sexual objectification of men and mostly women, making it transactional relationships. It specifically becomes problamatic if governments are too traditional and conservative in implementing policies against porn, as the more you prohibitbor strongly regulate, the more the black markets interests increases.

[Yimpa]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's cause no-fap is stupid.

Perhaps we should look into a method that is more… courageous.

 

What a time to be alive.

[Carl-Richard]

I just talked to a guy who says he has been on nofap for 2 years. He tried to convince the other guy we were talking to why he should try it, and I tried to give the "balance is probably best" take, and then he was like "you say that because you're trying to justify your addiction" (not in like an angry tone or anything by the way; it was a chill discussion).

Then later in the discussion, we came onto the topic of drugs, and I said I used to smoke a lot of weed, and he was like "me too; still do, every day". I didn't call him out on it (mainly because I was mindblown by the idea of being on 2 years of nofap while smoking weed), but damn, that's a stunning contradiction my dude  Maybe he doesn't view smoking weed daily (which I would essentially classify as an addiction) as something bad?  

Anyways, I think the lesson is to distinguish between actual rational behavior and falling for fads. I think most young people will be better off fapping once in a while than expending a lot of thought and energy dissociating themselves from their sexual impulses. Then for some people, they've naturally transcended the desire to fap, and it's not something they have to think much about. If you're in that situation, then go for that. Other than that, you'll probably fap less overtime anyway, so it won't be a problem for long  

Edited September 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[oldhandle]

I guess you could say the same thing about other users of the forum who are starkly against weed and alcohol but say go hog wild with porn/masturbation, right?

[Leo Gura]

Weed and alcohol do not compare to jerking off. You can easily go your whole life without the first, but your sexual cravings cannot be ignored.

Jerking off is not an addiction. It is a resolution of sexual cravings which are healthy and normal.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[oldhandle]

Is it just jerking off you say this about or porn as well? I think it's an important distinction. I am pretty convince, considering I've read mountains of peer-reviews evidence that porn is negative for the brain. I'm sure you've been to this website and are familiar with Gary Wilson:

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/

[oldhandle]

I'm surprised too that Buddhism and monks that take vows of celibacy aren't considered in a spiritual forum:

"Study of Buddhist monks suggests celibacy can have surprising evolutionary advantages"

https://www.psypost.org/2022/09/study-of-buddhist-monks-suggests-celibacy-can-have-surprising-evolutionary-advantages-63921

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

Is it just jerking off you say this about or porn as well?

Obviously porn is not necessary. But I consume porn as art. I don't have to look at art but I enjoy it.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[oldhandle]

So similar to art you look at it and don't jerk off? I am confused, never heard someone say that before about porn. 

[Schizophonia]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Weed and alcohol do not compare to jerking off. You can easily go your whole life without the first, but your sexual cravings cannot be ignored.

Jerking off is not an addiction. It is a resolution of sexual cravings which are healthy and normal.

It's hidden energy that could be saved for real sex.
Each deprivation of this kind of little useless pleasures is a good way to increase productivity, but also and above all to enhance the dopamine peaks remaining, including real sex.

[Princess Arabia]

23 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

So similar to art you look at it and don't jerk off? I am confused, never heard someone say that before about porn. 

It is quite common, just like nude photography. Almost anything can become artful, depending how you view it. Once I had someone show me very artful pornography. It was very beautiful and artsy. Both male and female, very different from the typical porn stuff. If I could, I would share it here, but I'm sure it's not allowed. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, oldhandle said:

I guess you could say the same thing about other users of the forum who are starkly against weed and alcohol but say go hog wild with porn/masturbation, right?

Whether it is rational or not to smoke some weed or drink some alcohol depends on your goals, and it's different for everyone. But I still think in a very general sense, smoking weed or drinking alcohol is less rational than jerking off.

You could technically say that if a person doesn't care at all about how his life turns out as a result of smoking weed every day that it can be rational for them to do that, but realistically, they will contradict that statement in some of their behavior (e.g. they will aspire to enhance their cognition or motivation in other ways, like nofap, or just simply pursue some meaningful goal which requires those things), which means that the statement that it was rational was simply a failure of insight or a self-deception (which is typical in addiction by the way).

When you're addicted, because your mind has become very impulsive, it likes to create impulsive and not very rational coping strategies. Suddenly one day, if things get a bit hard, it can say "but I don't care about anything anyway", and not one second later, you'll go on to contradict that statement by pursuing some goal or another.

So a good way to identify if something is an addiction is to see if the behavior is in strong contradiction with other held beliefs or behaviors (which in the case of daily weed smoking, it virtually always is; occasional fapping, maybe not so much).

Edited September 3, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[strika]

 

I massively recommend everyone to checkout these 4 videos when it comes to this topic, persevering sexual energy has been probably the best thing in my life not only for spiritual progress but even practical life, it boosts everything it can boost, it makes life so much more beautiful, you almost feel high in a way, you feel that childlike innocence again, life becomes so much more colorful literally and metaphorically, but it takes time, don't just give it a week or a month as a test to see if it's beneficial, i recommend at least 4-6 months of perserverance of sexual energy (no sex, masturbation, watching pornography, fantasizing) to see that it's the real deal, it's not about suppressing an instinct, it's about transcending it, which is possible, you won't be horny 24/7 or something, those phases will come and go which is normal but if you go through them you will be at absolute peace and bliss at some point and of course there are so many other benefits as well but i don't wanna be naming everything in this post, just checkout these 4 videos and also a channel called "Beyond The Alchemy" is amazing for this topic, i just wanted to share all this cause i usually see that perseverance of sexual energy is massively undervalued on this forum even tho i would say it's probably the most important piece of the puzzle when it comes to spirituality and overall actualization, can't think of anything that compares from my personal experience so far, give it a try.

Edited September 3, 2023 by strika

[Butters]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Jerking off is not an addiction. It is a resolution of sexual cravings which are healthy and normal.

Orgasm is supposed to come after a build up of sensual connection with another human, foreplay. Masturbation if super weird when you think about it. It's like snorting powdered ice cream or something. 

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Butters said:

Orgasm is supposed to come after a build up of sensual connection with another human, foreplay. Masturbation if super weird when you think about it. It's like snorting powdered ice cream or something. 

I guess nature is super weird.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-reproductive_sexual_behavior_in_animals

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Weed and alcohol do not compare to jerking off. You can easily go your whole life without the first, but your sexual cravings cannot be ignored.

Jerking off is not an addiction. It is a resolution of sexual cravings which are healthy and normal.

Yet depending on one’s upbringing, sexual cravings and desires can become distorted. For example, consider how a religious person relates to sex compared to an atheist who’s much more liberal about it.

I was personally born into a Roman Catholic conservative upbringing which severely limited my ability to understand and express my LGBT/queer identity. I also have BDD (body dysmorphic disorder), which I’m also currently addressing.

I believe the BDD also stems from bullying at a very young age about my body. I was frequently judged about being too skinny while simultaneously suppressing my curiosity of exploring a more feminine side of myself.  

Consequently, I’ve used PMO in a neurotic way, primarily as an escape. It was way to cope with not being able to express my authentic self and desires, because I was trained to believe that it was wrong. Decades of doing this will clearly have ramifications on one’s sexual identity and behaviors, their relationship with intimate partners, and how they view sex in the grand scheme of things.

Now that I’m addressing these issues seriously and breaking down old ideas I had of myself, I’m only starting to learn how to relate to these aspects in a healthier and authentic way.

So jerking off and sex is not a problem in and of itself. It can be a problem when unconsciously used as an escape from serious emotional and psychological traumas.