Been trying to quit porn/do NoFap for a long time, in these circles, they recommend..

[strika]

33 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

Yea, I have to say, it's REALLY surprising. Almost every spiritual traditional that Leo has an entire video on advises against lust and has people in it that practice celibacy. Really confused but maybe his mind can change in time.

I absolutely agree, people are missing out on the biggest booster of self-actualization there is, i think the problem is because usually people present these ideas from the NoFap perspective so they are taken less seriously because of the name of the movement and the reputation of it, also it sounds like it's a supression of one's sexuality (which in a way it is on some NoFap forums and posts, but that's because they are not really doing it for actualization but to stop addiction, the approach is not wise)

 

But semen retention and most importantly Brahmacharya are much more serious, they are not about supression but transcending the 2nd biggest instinct that a human has for the sake of gaining heaven in their daily life, it may sound crazy or unhealthy or impossible but it really isn't once one manages to get a few months of clean Brahmacharya and sees the enormous value it brings to ones life, i will say it once again, from my experience there is nothing, no other practice, no other tool that even compares to the absolute and relative value Brahmacharya brings into ones life, it's the foundation of a self-actualization, of making a life worth living, without it life feels dead and no amount of meditation and psychedelic experiences will make it alive like Brahmacharya would, once Brahmacharya is set in stone, meditation and psychedelics can take place, i have the contrast of the Brahmacharya-less life and one with Brahmacharya and those 2 things are 2 different lives, it's literally hell vs heaven, no matter how much one tries to decorate that hell with spirituality, it won't be close to the actual heaven

Edited September 4, 2023 by strika

[gettoefl]

lemme break this down

you gotta keep on having sex porn fap ... til you get over having it

til you see how dumb how ludicrous how comical how pathetic how stupid how whipped how enslaved

it is to be controlled by your genitals and hormones at the whim of the reproductive instinct like an obedient monkey

 

don't repress it, keep on until you get to the above crystal clear realization

namely why are you so driven to do frantic inelegant sweaty press ups and other ghastly gymnastic gyrations on some poor fragile smitten fellow messed up member of the human race

aren't you done yet so we can get our shut eye

get it out of your system as quick as possible so you can start living a full life

there's nothing wrong with sex, problem is being addicted obsessed neurotic and squandering this amazing opportunity

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by gettoefl

[Yimpa]

It’s nice to know that sex brought us all to-fucking-gather 

[oldhandle]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

lemme break this down

you gotta keep on having sex porn fap ... til you get over having it

til you see how dumb how ludicrous how comical how pathetic how stupid how whipped how enslaved

it is to be controlled by your genitals and hormones at the whim of the reproductive instinct like an obedient monkey

 

don't repress it, keep on until you get to the above crystal clear realization

namely why are you so driven to do frantic inelegant sweaty press ups and other ghastly gymnastic gyrations on some poor fragile smitten fellow messed up member of the human race

aren't you done yet so we can get our shut eye

get it out of your system as quick as possible so you can start living a full life

there's nothing wrong with sex, problem is being addicted obsessed neurotic and squandering this amazing opportunity

 

This is a fun post, I am entertained, but I don't know if I understood it

[gettoefl]

17 minutes ago, oldhandle said:

This is a fun post, I am entertained, but I don't know if I understood it

do the nasty til you see how lame it truly is and how much better life and love is without that plaguing your brain constantly

[Yimpa]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Bandman I'm well aware that some of you are addicted to jerking off. As some are addicted to food. But the solution to food addiction is not to stop eating but to learn to eat in a healthy way.

Yep. Here’s a great example of taking “food addiction” to the extreme.

 

[oldhandle]

I suppose I agree, being a fuckboy is not good either.

[strika]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

do the nasty til you see how lame it truly is and how much better life and love is without that plaguing your brain constantly

That's also a good approach but i think one should do this consciously, while doing the nasty observe yourself doing it, observe before doing it and after, basically try to notice the contrast, the subtle changes you feel after you do the nasty and at some point you won't want to do it anymore.

 

But don't fall into the trap of blindly going with this approach and then unconsciously having sex and masturbating for the rest of your life, many people go about life like this and then have a wasted life dependent on thousands meaningless and wasteful orgasms.

 

But i still think the best approach is to instantly see the value of Brahmacharya based on what you learn about it from others and your personal experience of it and have the intention of going for it, giving your best to get on it and remove sexual energy release out of your life and if you fail at times which will probably happen in the beginning forgive yourself and continue trying, most importantly always have the wise intention in mind, even if you fail to follow up.

[Starlight321]

I think the topic is too multilayered to find the one solution or what is right.

Minds can be very different and some people have more addictied minds than others and get far greater dopamine rushs than other ones and their minds get extremely accelerated and if they are prone to negative thinking habits their minds turns negative in the same intensity as the positive and their consciousness easily flies out of the window. 

Or they get in negative behaviour patterns, like negative selftalk that they did it or realizing that the use it as avoidance mechanism or distracting from responsibilities like creating a fulfilling life.It also depends what you watch and your vibration level.

But on the other hand many people can do it in a healthy way or learn to do it, some though don't. It often fixes itself when people do other things they like doing and work on themselves.

I think one should neither demonize it nor take leo's or personal experience or mine or anyones else as the final word. 

If It bothers one it's up to the individual to question what the motivation behind the bother is and find the solution.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Starlight321

[oldhandle]

Do you think it's innate that some people just get bigger dopamine rushes with sexuality and therefore have more likelihood toward getting addicted? What causes such variance?

[universe]

8 hours ago, strika said:

while doing the nasty observe yourself doing it

Who told you masturbation is nasty?

[Gidiot]

After all my experience I don’t thin suppression is the answer but if you gotta jerk off I think it’s truly wise to always have the intention of transcending it, I agree with Leo, young men should masturbate but eventually it should get itself out of your system, you don’t want to be 60-70 years old jerking off, your body isn’t meant to be cumming your whole life, there is a reason why man become generally more impotent as they age, or so I think

 

osho is the most measured but Sadhguru and Leo seem to agree, jerking off is a compulsion and you can either do it consciously or compulsively,

you shouldn’t really just jerk off on its own, you should jerk off and also meditate says Osho and you should move from compulsion to consciousness slowly

and not by force Osho also says that eventually if you keep jerking off AND ALSO meditating  the desire and the compulsion will drop away but only if you cultivate the intention to drop it away eventually, that is a measured healthy approach imo and it doesn’t suffer from the problems of suppression or addiction because I truly do believe if you masturbate consciously the desire will drop away eventually and naturally without any effort

Edited September 5, 2023 by Gidiot

[strika]

4 hours ago, universe said:

Who told you masturbation is nasty?

I used the word nasty because the guy i was responding to did, i don't call masturbation nasty and honestly it is nasty in comparison to pure celibacy, which i'm not saying out of hate towards masturbation or something, it's just really weird behaviour when you look back at it after a few months of Brahmacharya

Edited September 5, 2023 by strika

[strika]

1 hour ago, Gidiot said:

After all my experience I don’t thin suppression is the answer but if you gotta jerk off I think it’s truly wise to always have the intention of transcending it, I agree with Leo, young men should masturbate but eventually it should get itself out of your system, you don’t want to be 60-70 years old jerking off, your body isn’t meant to be cumming your whole life, there is a reason why man become generally more impotent as they age, or so I think

 

osho is the most measured but Sadhguru and Leo seem to agree, jerking off is a compulsion and you can either do it consciously or compulsively,

you shouldn’t really just jerk off on its own, you should jerk off and also meditate says Osho and you should move from compulsion to consciousness slowly

and not by force Osho also says that eventually if you keep jerking off AND ALSO meditating  the desire and the compulsion will drop away but only if you cultivate the intention to drop it away eventually, that is a measured healthy approach imo and it doesn’t suffer from the problems of suppression or addiction because I truly do believe if you masturbate consciously the desire will drop away eventually and naturally without any effort

True, but one should also do this with the overall sexual desire (sex, fantasizing, scrolling Instagram/TikTok for a dopamine hit, checking out people in public,etc.), basically all the more subtle ways sexual energy can be released

[D2sage]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:48 PM, Leo Gura said:

But I consume porn as art.

This is legit assuming Pornhub and similar websites is not the art gallery.

However, people who are addicted to video games say they consume video game as art.

 

 

Nofap/Semen retention is not new age stuff but has been in cultures like:

• Taoism
• Ancient Greece
• Ancient Egypt and esoteric practices

Done for spiritual reasons.

 

How to Tell Your Porn Consumption is Harmful

• You need to watch many Vidoes and have to open multiple tabs before you can cum.

This is where the problem resides. 

If you are going to jerk of to porn you can only watch 1 video and ejaculate. Having many tabs and searching for the next hit constantly is fucking up your dopamine receptors. Many men start watching porn early and abnormal tab-switching is doing harm on the parts of the brain that handles pleasure and reward.

Edited September 5, 2023 by D2sage

[D2sage]

On 9/4/2023 at 2:02 AM, oldhandle said:

Dismissing all peer-reviewed research on porn related topics as bro-science seems unfair, pretty sure the links here are actual science

People who justify their addictions will always try to normalize their behavior.  Even if there is a decade worth of science, some will refuse to see it so they can continue their addiction.

"Bro science" is a way to dismiss or downplay the negative concerns.

This is why these people will never leave stage green.

Edited September 5, 2023 by D2sage

[Norbert Somogyi]

I went through this process with a trial&error approach for 5 years, with varying results. I tried numerous methods and had some success, with some *streaks* going up to months. Up until an occasion where I had utter disgust for doing it, felt it in my whole body. That cleared things up, helped me quit porn and brought me my longest streak. This was 2 years ago and I am back to a natural balance I'd say, releasing 2-3 times a month without porn.

I can't say much about the transmutation of sexual energy or even Brahmacharya as I have little to no direct experience, nor does it currently work for me. All I can say is that the shame component is what makes things worse and fuels the addiction, and possibly POIS for some.

Nor is it a magic cure for all of my problems, but it helped me become more of a man than before and take initiative & responsibility for my life.

[Norbert Somogyi]

Concerning the OP post -  if you will be dating this girl, do not use nofap as an excuse to not have sex. It is a crucial part of the bonding process.

This would be a good opportunity for you to rewire unhealthy porn-induced patterns in your brain with healthy ones. No-porn is a given to me since it can negatively influence your expectations and the bonding experience, given that unless you date a top model, reality will repeatedly slap you in the face.

I'd say find your own balance. Doing it only with her is great, but if her sex drive is lower than yours then you may need to look for natural alternatives to even yourself out. This of course can change over the course of a relationship.

[oldhandle]

3 hours ago, D2sage said:

This is legit assuming Pornhub and similar websites is not the art gallery.

However, people who are addicted to video games say they consume video game as art.

 

 

Nofap/Semen retention is not new age stuff but has been in cultures like:

• Taoism
• Ancient Greece
• Ancient Egypt and esoteric practices

Done for spiritual reasons.

 

How to Tell Your Porn Consumption is Harmful

• You need to watch many Vidoes and have to open multiple tabs before you can cum.

This is where the problem resides. 

If you are going to jerk of to porn you can only watch 1 video and ejaculate. Having many tabs and searching for the next hit constantly is fucking up your dopamine receptors. Many men start watching porn early and abnormal tab-switching is doing harm on the parts of the brain that handles pleasure and reward.

This is totally true and I can also that I think dating apps for those recovering for porn, while at first the man can think "oh, I'm leaving porn behind and trying to find a real woman" - the constant feed of new and novel girls on the apps feels a lot like porn used to and to those men (including myself) I suggest trying to meet women through approach in real life instead. I know this is a bit of a change of topic, but hope it makes sense.

[oldhandle]

2 hours ago, D2sage said:

People who justify their addictions will always try to normalize their behavior.  Even if there is a decade worth of science, some will refuse to see it so they can continue their addiction.

"Bro science" is a way to dismiss or downplay the negative concerns.

This is why these people will never leave stage green.

I haven't fully understood the spiral dynamic stuff yet, but hasn't Leo left stage green yet still thinks this?