Buddhism and Sadhguru will Lead You Off the Spiritual Cliff

[jimwell]

Buddhism stands as a venerable spiritual tradition which has captivated the hearts of many because of its seemingly profound spiritual principles. I myself looked up to Buddhism after escaping the spiritual garbage of Catholicism. But In retrospect, I ended up exchanging one form of spiritual garbage for another.

Before I continue, I must emphasize my admiration for Buddhism’s pillars: Wisdom (Prajna), Ethical Conduct (Sila), and Mental Development (Samadhi). I also love Buddhism’s emphasis on compassion towards all sentient things. Furthermore, the profound significance placed on Mindfulness within Buddhism's fabric resonates with me, signifying a harmonious union of awareness and presence.

But I have a big problem with Buddhism’s concepts of Samudaya (Origin of Suffering) and Nirodha (Cessation of Suffering). Yes, it’s good to reduce suffering but it’s BAD to do it via the elimination of attachment and desire. If God intentionally created you, the ego, to have human experience and then to accomplish the ultimate PURPOSE; why would God detest the ego? The concept of renouncing the ego is contradictory and absurd.

I feel compelled to scrutinize Buddhism’s pinnacle spiritual pursuit—Nirvana. The notion of a permanent cessation of suffering and a perpetual state of peace is disconnected from the reality of human existence. To be human is to inherently grapple with limitations, hence, the existence of suffering is woven into the fabric of our collective experience.

Reports of extreme Buddhist meditators who don’t suffer in any form is bullshit. Yes, it’s possible to be free from all form of suffering for a few hours, but not in a few weeks, let alone years. So, it’s obvious the Buddha never reached Nirvana. Nirvana is a spiritual pipe dream. Buddhism is inherently flawed at its core.

I also looked up to Sadhguru when I started to delve into spirituality. I still admire his foundational principles such as Inner Engineering, his visionary efforts with Project Greenhands, and his emphasis on nurturing well-being and spiritual growth.

But Sadhguru is wordy and vague. He emits 70% noise and only 30% signal. I don’t have much time for his babble. And he never clarified the pinnacle of his spiritual pursuit. Leo’s “You’re God dreaming your human life.” is clear as fuck and aligns with my style.

When asked about the ultimate purpose of human life, Sadhguru responded with “The purpose of human life is to live it.” His response suggests that his guidance will also lead others off the spiritual cliff.

So, what's the ultimate purpose of human existence? Yes, it's spirituality. But spirituality is more than just a profound understanding of existence; it also encompasses a deep reverence for it. It's a celebration of life, an intense appreciation of its magnificence, sacredness, and splendor. To simplify, the ultimate purpose is ROMANCE WITH EXISTENCE.

A Poodle's Spiritual Walk

[Buck Edwards]

Wrong. 

 

[tuku747]

Sorry I don't believe in the boogeyman

[Water by the River]

42 minutes ago, jimwell said:

So, what's the ultimate purpose of human existence? Yes, it's spirituality. But spirituality is more than just a profound understanding of existence; it also encompasses a deep reverence for it. It's a celebration of life, an intense appreciation of its magnificence, sacredness, and splendor. To simplify, the ultimate purpose is ROMANCE WITH EXISTENCE.

 

... and that is called Tantric Buddhism, or Vajrayana. What you describe with the focus on Nirvana and the excessive focus on the end of suffering and so on comes from the early forms of Buddhism.

https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/

One Taste, Wilber:

"The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as “Tantric,” these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion. They enter with awareness the nine rings of hell, for nowhere else are the nine heavens found. Nothing is alien to them, for there is nothing that is not One Taste. Indeed, the whole point is to be fully at home in the body and its desires, the mind and its ideas, the spirit and its light. To embrace them fully, evenly, simultaneously, since all are equally gestures of the One and Only Taste. To inhabit lust and watch it play; to enter ideas and follow their brilliance; to be swallowed by Spirit and awaken to a glory that time forgot to name. Body and mind and spirit, all contained, equally contained, in the ever-present awareness that grounds the entire display. In the stillness of the night, the Goddess whispers. In the brightness of the day, dear God roars. Life pulses, mind imagines, emotions wave, thoughts wander. What are all these but the endless movements of One Taste, forever at play with its own gestures, whispering quietly to all who would listen: is this not you yourself? When the thunder roars, do you not hear your Self? When the lightning cracks, do you not see your Self? When clouds float quietly across the sky, is this not your very own limitless Being, waving back at you?"

The blue part is literal. It is not poetic.

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

PS: When considering "buying" Buddhism, don't just buy the Iphone 2 (Theravada, Hinayana). At least consider the Iphone 14, or some forms of Tantric Buddhism. Comes with Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and uhm, the juicy stuff: Tantra.

Below: "Hevajra in union with his consort Nairātmyā". What exactly are they doing?  Heaven and Earth, Consciousness and form, Emptiness and Appearance madly in loving union, dancing the cosmic dance in embrace until the end of time...

 

[jimwell]

11 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

One Taste, Wilber:

"The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as “Tantric,” these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion. They enter with awareness the nine rings of hell, for nowhere else are the nine heavens found. Nothing is alien to them, for there is nothing that is not One Taste. Indeed, the whole point is to be fully at home in the body and its desires, the mind and its ideas, the spirit and its light. To embrace them fully, evenly, simultaneously, since all are equally gestures of the One and Only Taste. To inhabit lust and watch it play; to enter ideas and follow their brilliance; to be swallowed by Spirit and awaken to a glory that time forgot to name.

13 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

When considering "buying" Buddhism, don't just buy the Iphone 2 (Theravada, Hinayana). At least consider the Iphone 14, or some forms of Tantric Buddhism. Comes with Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and uhm, the juicy stuff: Tantra.

Interesting. I'll investigate Buddhism's iPhone 14 when I have time. That tantric Buddhism surely caught my attention. Thanks for the info and the link. 

[Leo Gura]

Saying they will lead you off a cliff is too extreme. It's hard to deny that such teachings are helpful for many people. It's just that it won't lead to the highest possible consciousness. But that's also not the goal.

You have to be very careful here not to be too dismissive of these spiritual teachings. A lot of nuance is required to see where they are good and where they are limited.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[SeaMonster]

2 hours ago, jimwell said:

If God intentionally created you, the ego, to have human experience and then to accomplish the ultimate PURPOSE; why would God detest the ego? The concept of renouncing the ego is contradictory and absurd.

Let me settle this once and for all, because the error is becoming annoying (probably thanks in part to Razard's blustery foolishness and insistence that he knows wtf he's talking about.)

The ego, as understood in spiritual parlance, is not awareness, the intellect, the body, the impulses, the desires, the feelings, the personality traits.  All those phenomena exist independently of the ego.

The ego is the PROCESS OF IDENTIFICATION -- i.e. the thought "I" grafted onto all those aforementioned phenomena.

The whole point of spirituality is that the PROCESS OF IDENTIFYING with these things is superfluous and actually a prison  of sorts, as the narrative around identification with all these phenomena generates considerable unnecessary suffering.

This is why e.g. Ramana Maharshi calls enlightenment in its completed form Sahaja Samadhi -- The Natural State.  Things happen naturally without false identification needed.

Awareness, the intellect, the body, the impulses, the desires, the feelings, the personality traits are there, but there is no longer a false separate self narrative around them.

Please, let's stop the low IQ posting around this topic.  It's frankly embarassing shit.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Hojo]

the problem with ego is its on 100 percent power for most humans. You are supposed to use it sparingly and only when you need it. and to do this you need to know how to turn it off. And you want to be detached from everything or 90 percent of things

Edited August 5, 2023 by Hojo

[Yimpa]

All spiritual teachers are in your Mind.

Ziiiiing! 

[VeganAwake]

Luckily everyone here is already off the spiritual cliff! ? ♥ 

[Bazooka Jesus]

Lol, okay... and of course following some crackpot psychedelic junkie with a massive superiority complex who prattles on about Alien Insanity and whatnot won't lead you off the spiritual cliff, right?

The big irony, as exemplified in this thread, is that none of you guys who think that they are so above Buddhist doctrine have any idea what it even means to follow the Buddhist path and where it can potentially lead to. Including Leo.

And I am saying this as a non-religious person.

[integral]

2 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Lol, okay... and of course following some crackpot psychedelic junkie with a massive superiority complex who prattles on about Alien Insanity and whatnot won't lead you off the spiritual cliff, right?

The big irony, as exemplified in this thread, is that none of you guys who think that they are so above Buddhist doctrine have any idea what it even means to follow the Buddhist path and where it can potentially lead to. Including Leo.

And I am saying this as a non-religious person.

Listening to any other teacher besides Leo has been near useless to me over the years. Every teacher suits the needs of different students, its not about better or worse. There is diversity. 

Look at this one, its deeply unrelatable to how my mind works, but for others its exactly how they think.

Her language and how she explains things does not relate to me in any way. I experience her as non-stop miscommunication. 

"Send light to that memory to heal it" ... ooooooook then thank you for not trying to be understood by a modern human. 

But maybe this is exactly what Leo needs to heal his body lol

Buddhism is much the same, they play alot of games to obfuscate simple things. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by integral

[Breakingthewall]

@jimwell  

I agree that the basic principle of Buddhism, escaping from suffering, stopping the wheel of reincarnations to melt into nirvana sounds cowardly and anti-life. as well as dogmatic. reincarnation wheel? nirvana? concepts. I don't believe in them, are just ideas that Buddhism tell you to believe 

 

busism has a highly negative basis: life is a problem from which one must escape. that is completely false. reality is for love, and buddhism is sad negativity. Suffering is love .

Edited August 5, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@jimwell  

I agree that the basic principle of Buddhism, escaping from suffering, stopping the wheel of reincarnations to melt into nirvana sounds cowardly and anti-life. as well as dogmatic. reincarnation wheel? nirvana? concepts. I don't believe in them, are just ideas that Buddhism tell you to believe 

 

busism has a highly negative basis: life is a problem from which one must escape. that is completely false. reality is for love, and buddhism is sad negativity. Suffering is love .

That's not a good characterization of Buddhism. Buddhism can be done for positive reasons.

Becoming better at handling suffering is a very useful thing, not somthing negative. Don't poo-poo that.

Edited August 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not a good characterization of Buddhism. Buddhism can be done for positive reasons.

Becoming better at handling suffering is a very useful thing, not somthing negative. Don't poo-poo that.

all religions are useful to help bear the harshness of being human, but Buddhism has a very marked bias towards the negative, the nothing, the void. Furthermore, as it is also a meditative practice, it seems that the practitioners have found the truth for themselves, but afterwards everyone repeats the dogma: wheel of reincarnations, end of suffering. They do not realize that they are clinging to a system of ideas, they think they are enlightened, all repeating the same mental structures. so Buddhism is sold as a system to awaken and is pure anesthesia

[OldManCorcoran]

Lucid dreaming forums have been more interesting than Buddhism. Meditation does nothing at all.

What really is useful is the moments immediately after you wake from sleeping. Before the ego comes back online you can explore really strange things. Sometimes though it just startles me and I panic and stop the dive.

Hopefully when we die our mind releases some sikk chemicals so we don't experience that terror.

[OldManCorcoran]

Buddhism and stuff is all well and good when it's just words on a page. I think deep down with all spiritual traditions people don't ACTUALLY believe, it's more like roleplay.

It just isn't fun anymore when it stops being words and becomes actual reality. Reading about Gabriel appearing to some dude in the Bible would quickly become alarming if you looked up and saw Gabriel actually there in front of you irl... Same with Buddhist ideas.