Robert F. Kennedy Jr. running for POTUS

[Leo Gura]

It's a great litmus test. If RFK was in charge a million more Americans would be dead right now.

Mature my ass.

The establishment exists for good reason, because most of the time it works better at scale than all your hippie crap.

Your wokeness will kill a million people if you aren't careful.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

This guy is incredibly dishonest and incompetent when it comes to understanding stats and claims regarding the vaccines.

One time he used the VAERS database as clear evidence for vaccine deaths  - and that tells me automatically - how much he doesn't actually care about  investigating anything related to the topic, how dishonest and incompetent he is and how he is only interested in impulsively reiterating complete nonsense without doing 5 second research or thinking before he opens his mouth on the issue.

https://house.louisiana.gov/H_Video/VideoArchivePlayer?v=house/2021/dec/1206_21_HW (from 35:00 you can enjoy his dishonest claims using the VAERS database as evidence)

The VAERS database is where you can report stuff but it doesn't prove causality or anything. VAERS literally has a website where they tell you this:

Quote

VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness

VAERS reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

He has been consistent with his vaccine "scepticism"   since the beginning of the pandemic, regardless of the lack of evidence for his claims.

If he would be and if he would have been an honest sceptic , then he would have waited for a study to come out proving an actual causation between those death and the vaccine, but of course he is and was just reiterating his points very confidently without any tangible evidence.

 

[VictorB02]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a great litmus test. If RFK was in charge a million more Americans would be dead right now.

Mature my ass.

The establishment exists for good reason, because most of the time it works better at scale than all your hippie crap.

Your wokeness will kill a million people if you aren't careful.

Kill a million? I don't think so. Covid still spread and people still died, even if the had gotten the vaccine shot. I don't think it was or is effective as they have said it was at stopping covid.

I just seriously feel like these companies took advantage of peoples fear and they rushed a vaccine to profit. It's made my intuitive alarm bells go off ever since the beginning. But to each is their own I guess.

Edited June 19, 2023 by VictorB02

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

 I don't think it was or is effective as they have said it was at stopping covid.

The vaccine was extremely effective. At one point over 90% of people in ICUs with Covid were those who didn't get vaccinated. The rapid distribution of the vaccine saved at least a million lives, not to mention the benefit to the economy. Without a vaccine we would have had a bad recession and even worse inflation.

Just because you hate Big Pharma does not mean their vaccine didn't save many lives.

Nuance.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

Kill a million? I don't think so. Covid still spread and people still died, even if the had gotten the vaccine shot. I don't think it was or is effective as they have said it was at stopping covid.

I just seriously feel like these companies took advantage of peoples fear and they rushed a vaccine to profit. It's made my intuitive alarm bells go off ever since the beginning. But to each is their own I guess.

Okay, here are statistics on how many people worldwide suffered and died from the Spanish flu during 1918-1920, when there were no vaccines for the disease, no part of the world was under any kind of lockdown, and there only about 1.7 billion people in the world:

        Estimated Cases - 500 million

            approx. percent of people in the world who were infected - 500 million/1.7 billion = 29%

        Deaths - 25–50 million (generally accepted), other estimates range from 17 to 100 million

            approx. percent of people in the world who died (low ball estimate) - 17 million/1.7 billion = 1%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Now, here are statistics on how many people worldwide suffered and died from COVID-19 from 2020-2023, with vaccines vaccines for the disease, virtually every part of the world was under some kind of lockdown, and there have been about 7.8 billion since 2020:

        Estimated Cases - 767,984,989

             percent of people in the world who were infected - 767,984,989/ 7.8 billion = 9.8%

        Deaths - 6,943,390

             percent of people in the world who were infected - 767,984,989/ 7.8 billion = .09%

https://covid19.who.int/

 

As you can see, both the lockdowns and the COVID-19 vaccines made a dramatic positive difference for the whole world. The number of people per capita around the world who were infected by COVID was only less than a third of the number of people per capita around the world who were infected by Spanish flu. The number of people who died per capita from COVID was only less than one-tenth of the number of people per capita around the world who were infected by Spanish flu, even with a low ball estimate of the number of people who died from the Spanish flu. Also, the total of number of people who died from COVID was approx. 40.6% of total of people who died from the Spanish Flu, again even with a low ball estimate of the number of people who died from the Spanish flu. 

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill An important missing factor in your analysis is how much better healthcare has gotten in the last 100 years. Hospitals saved many people from dying from Covid.

But I still think your general point stands.

[Recursoinominado]

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Recursoinominado

[wpw]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The vaccine was extremely effective. At one point over 90% of people in ICUs with Covid were those who didn't get vaccinated. The rapid distribution of the vaccine saved at least a million lives, not to mention the benefit to the economy. Without a vaccine we would have had a bad recession and even worse inflation.

Just because you hate Big Pharma does not mean their vaccine didn't save many lives.

Nuance.

Someone cares more about his YouTube channel staying up than the truth ; ) 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, wpw said:

Someone cares more about his YouTube channel staying up than the truth ; ) 

Yeah, the lizard people got to me.

[wpw]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, the lizard people got to me.

Using their "alien consciousness"? I just thought it was plain old corruption.... silly me  

[Hardkill]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill An important missing factor in your analysis is how much better healthcare has gotten in the last 100 years. Hospitals saved many people from dying from Covid.

But I still think your general point stands.

Oh yeah, of course!

Healthcare in every country in the world, especially in every first world country, has gotten many times better in many dimensions since the 1910s thanks to the constant rapid advancements of medicine, healthcare technology, hospitals, manufacturing, media technology, communication, international trade, governments, businesses, commerce, exchange of ideas and beliefs from all different kinds of cultures around the world, etc.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Hardkill

[Jodistrict]

The underlying truth of vaccines is that the drug companies won’t manufacture them without immunity from the damage they do.  This fact speaks louder than distracting words.  We are expected to take these vaccines but the people who are damaged are expected to bare the costs.  The Johnson & Johnson covid vaccine was discontinued even though it was promoted as safe.  The bottom line is that we have the right to expect the agencies to make these difficult risk/reward decisions only in the public interest.  That means eliminating regulatory capture.  That is all that Robert Kennedy is proposing to do.  Most people will see this as reasonable and fair once it is explained to them.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html#:~:text=Under the PREP Act%2C companies,goes wrong with their vaccines

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Jodistrict

[a7xKingz]

@Leo Gura interesting to see you spouting the same nonsense you were spouting a year ago. 

At what point do you just admit that you don't know what you're talking about?

You were brainwashed, along with many other Americans, regarding the effectiveness of these products and again, are saying the same thing because you were brainwashed. 

Data doesn't make sense to you people. 

You react based off of emotion and get mad when someone says something contrary to what you think is the truth. 

What is your background in health?

How much do you actually KNOW about the things that you are talking about? 

Man, you were super brainwashed and by the looks of it still are. 

Are you willing to concede that you were brainwashed? 

What would it take for you to be able to make this concession?

Is it possible for you to make this concession? 

If this is not possible, you have spiritual work that you still need to go through. 

Being able to admit you're wrong is a big part of spiritual development because as you and I know, we are extremely limited in our understanding of things as human beings. 

This is a complicated topic and to see you respond the way that you do, with such affirmation and close mindedness, is pretty appalling to see from a so called spiritual guru.

You need to take it easy on these kinds of opinions, I highly doubt you know as much as you think you know.

 

I am attaching a graph, this is data from the CDC that you can verify if you want, that plots mortality from Covid-19 vs. Time. 

You can see when vaccination came into play and you can see that the slope of the line remains unchanged. 

This is very clear, nothing to dissect. 

This is as straightforward as it gets. 

If the vaccines were actually effective, that slope would drop.

The fact that it doesn't means that the products didn't work in the long run. 

So stop with the slandering of unvaccinated individuals, you don't know any better.

[Yimpa]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your wokeness will kill a million people if you aren't careful.

I would say “Good!”, but I’m a saint; not Hitler ?

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

The underlying truth of vaccines is that the drug companies won’t manufacture them without immunity from the damage they do.  This fact speaks louder than distracting words.

This doesn't speak anything about efficacy or about safetiness.

Lets say you own a vaccine company and you create a vaccine that has 0.0001 chance to give you very serious health complications. Now your vaccine gets approved and you give this vaccine to a 1 billion people, which means you have 100 000 people with serious injuries and each of them can now sue you for millions of dollars. 

So you basically completely disincentivise all vaccine companies to produce anything (especially for mass use) because they are determined to be destroyed and sued to the dust (if they can't produce a 100% safe vaccine - which is an incredibly absurd standard to have).

[Leo Gura]

No medicine is ever 100% safe for everyone. You can have severe bad reactions to all sorts of approved and widely used pharmaceuticals. 

You guys make piss-poor arguments.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Ima Freeman]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The vaccine was extremely effective. At one point over 90% of people in ICUs with Covid were those who didn't get vaccinated. The rapid distribution of the vaccine saved at least a million lives, not to mention the benefit to the economy. Without a vaccine we would have had a bad recession and even worse inflation.

Just because you hate Big Pharma does not mean their vaccine didn't save many lives.

Nuance.

Why is the whole pandemic just a dream, like a movie without back story, and at the same time the vaccine saved millions of lives?

[VictorB02]

@Leo Gura @Hardkill

I didn't know that, thanks. I guess my info was wrong.

One of the biggest obstacles for me trying to understand this stuff objectively is the overwhelming amount of contradicting statistics and information on the exact same world events. I mean we have graphs and stats here to support one perspective - that vaccines are ineffective against covid, and in my mind that completely makes sense - because we used them and they didn't really "stop" covid at all. But then from the other perspective, we have stats that show they helped, and how much worse it would've been if we didn't take them. And that makes total sense to me... So Idk. This shit is a nightmare to try to understand and make sense of! But I will keep at it. Thank you for your replies

Edited June 20, 2023 by VictorB02

[Tanz]

@VictorB02 You are right to have your views and so are the people that say you are wrong.  Reality is wonky and at the end of the day, all that matters is everyone's personal reality.  At the least, most people see things this way.    

Truth is a nonlinear thing and many things can true at once including contrasting views.  People are willing to die and defend their views at all costs without understanding that God is a trickster.   

[Jodistrict]

13 hours ago, zurew said:

This doesn't speak anything about efficacy or about safetiness.

Lets say you own a vaccine company and you create a vaccine that has 0.0001 chance to give you very serious health complications. Now your vaccine gets approved and you give this vaccine to a 1 billion people, which means you have 100 000 people with serious injuries and each of them can now sue you for millions of dollars. 

So you basically completely disincentivise all vaccine companies to produce anything (especially for mass use) because they are determined to be destroyed and sued to the dust (if they can't produce a 100% safe vaccine - which is an incredibly absurd standard to have).

The drug companies sell other drugs with liability.  The reason vaccines are exempt is because powerful lobbyists got the laws changed.   Exempting vaccines from liability gives them an incentive to make unnecessary vaccines rather than useful medicines in order to make a profit.  This is a profit incentive which isn’t good for the public.  And given that there is no compensation for someone injured, it then becomes everyone’s moral right to make their own decision to take or not take the vaccine in order to protect themselves.