[lol] It's so obvious that humans are carnivores.

[Jannes]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Should" according to what criteria?

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Paleo" includes all hominids before the mastery of agriculture pr homo sapiens
Just because Homo erectus ate beetles and tender roots doesn't mean it's an attractive and favorable diet for modern man.

As for fruit: https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
You can also watch any documentary on hunter-gatherer tribes and you will see that they consume fruits and honey, sometimes fatty fruits (coconuts, avocados, palm fruits...)

Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The whole point of my topic is to troll a little by making a statement based on very basic things, and by extension showing that it works on various people. We could fight over a "more perched" debate on a certain number of studies, but that would be long and uninteresting.

Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  

Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If you want my opinion on such and such a study I can tell you, possibly.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

[M A J I]

Reading through there is a a lot of misinformation here on these forum chats. I know many people who have been plant based without any supplements who are thriving and healthy for many years. 10+ years here.

I also know the same for those who are choosing the omnivore path, and a few that are more carnivore path. Nutrition is very poorly understood as is our bodies intelligence, remember we are created out of infinite intelligence.

Here is a nice conversation with a person who is experimenting with carnivore diet and a person who is fruitarian. 

How discussions should be. Gotta find what works best for you because arguing never gets anywhere.
 

Edited April 20, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Pandas, like any bear, are omnivores, means they can consume either only plants or only meat their entire life and they will be healthy.

Don't pretend not to understand, pansa is mainly herbivorous.  There are actually quite a few purely herbivorous or carnivorous animals, most of the time these are abuses of language.

Quote

We might consume meat once in a while and to be fine, but we can't be healthy by eating meat only, while we can be healthy by eating only plants.

No, without supplement you will die, or in any case be in very bad health.

There is no vegan civilization, strictly none outside the imagination of some.

Quote

We forced into cooking meat in order to survive. Especially in cold areas with long winters, when there are no plants available for long periods of time. 
 

Lol.  You just spit a racist myth on me that Europeans are mammoth-eating hunter-gatherer warriors and non-white/Europeans are strutting around in the rainforest eating coconuts and plantains.

That's not how it works and the majority of tropical civilizations have based their diet largely on animal products.

Same for dairy products.
 

Gift : https://www.sci.news/archaeology/indus-civilization-people-diet-09136.html

I recorded it recently because I found it interesting

Quote

Source?

It literally took me 5 seconds to find it on google, despite being an insomniac and terribly lazy to do research.

Quote

 

But I like it since my childhood and many humans like it. Are they doing wrong that they like fruits and vegetables?

For the 10th time carnivores is a misnomer for "primal".  And I'm not on a diet outside of instinct.  Fruits are good to some extent, vegetables are not, people hide the taste of vegetables with spices, salts, fats etc, especially if they are very bitter/fibrous.

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I'm sorry it affected you that way. What food caused you this? Legumes?

yes

Quote

I know that carnivore diet creates more body odor, means more smelly excretions.

Idk

Quote

And vegan diet improves body odor, which makes people with plant based diet more attractive sexually because they smell better.

Ditto, do you have an epidemiological study on the smell of carnivores and their sexual attractiveness?  lol.

What I eat has never changed my body odor, maybe some people starve themselves too much fat or something and produce too much lactic acid.

Quote

 

Nuts are full of it, avocado too, some of green leaves like lettuce has omega 3 too

No, these foods don't contain "a lot of omega 3", the only seeds that contain a lot of O3 are marginal (chia, flax, hemp...) and they are Omega 3 ALA, you have to consume a lot to convert enough to  EPA/DHA.  I even saw a video of a vegan dr (I forget what his name is, he was on What Thé Health and seems to be North African or mixed race) admitted that many of his patients were  deficient.

Quote

and many kinds of algae which are very rich in omega 3. 

lol, that's like saying calcium deficiency wasn't a problem because you can suck on a limestone brick

Quote

 

I'm very sorry to ruin your illusion, but it's too easy to debunk you.

All right

Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria found in the soil, not by animals or plants.

Animals do not get vitamin b12 by eating plants.  Their intestinal flora metabolizes the cobalt in the tons of vegetables they consume into enough b12.  Even if you were right you can't eat so many plants anyway, it would be deadly.  You also can't get enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or some bullshit.  In fact the only people coming out with such dangerous ideas are ideologically mentally ill and I hope you understand that these guys are marginal and ideologically mentally ill.  Neal Barnard (I think he's the one who said that in what the health) would be easily condemned in France for saying things like that.  I don't know how it works in other countries in Europe but here I am probably similar.

Quote

And eating meat doesn't guarantee that you wouldn't have vitamin B12 deficiency. It depends whther the animal you eat consumed enough B12 or not.

If even eating a certain amount of animal products is insufficient how can you claim to have enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or eating grass lol.  Otherwise yes, depends on the cooking method, the part of the animal etc.

Quote

Vegan sources for B12 can be mushrooms, algae, cereals.

"suck the pebbles"

Quote

 

Beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread, quinoa. 

 

Shiitake mushrooms, soy beans, wheat germs, cruciferous vegetables, almonds, quinoa, red potatoes. They are all have enough to be healthy. Too much choline is unhealthy.

At least we travel with veganism lol

Quote

 

Cereals and legumes.

 

Lentils, spinach, chickpea, tofu, cashews,  bean,potatoes, kale.

So why did my physical performance increase by quitting veganism?  Why do all vegan athletes consume a significant amount of protein from rice, peas etc?  Have you ever tried to eat a ton of beans every day?

Quote

There is protein in any food, whether it's a plant or not, we don't need a lot protein and protein deficiency is not common.

It is not because it is difficult to be lacking in something that it is not problematic to have little.  Where are the low protein athletes?  There is good where graham from but his teeth are rotten, he is skinny and nothing says he is not under trt.  The majority of frugivores are physically wasteful, and even starch eaters often have to take supplements.

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I don't understand, is he skinny or fat?

Both, it looks like a bottle of orangina

Quote

Isn't it exactly what you are doing here on this thread?

I play

Quote

You are started with justifying your choice to eat meat.

No, I don't have to justify anything to anyone.  And eating meat is not a choice, it's so obvious.

Quote

Can't you just eat your meat quietly without opening a thread full of excuses?

You project yourself, the only liberal in the tertiary sector who feels guilty about eating meat is you.  I'm just playing, starting debates is a game, it's literally the purpose of life.  If it bothers you, you don't have to post, are you aware of that?

Quote

In my childhood, my family wanted me to eat meat and they tried to push it to my throat. This is the story of so many vegan and vegetarian people. Society puts so much pressure to eat meat. Given this situation, it means that people who don't eat meat really don't want to eat meat. 

Different people have a different understanding of "nice". 

 

Obviously, the more you annoy someone on a subject the more you push them into reverse neurosis.  It is for this precise reason that I promote a diet based on the senses and instinct.

 

11 hours ago, Jannes said:

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

The problem is not to do or not to do what you have done in the past, the problem is that you are adapted to it whether you want to or not.  I'm no archaeologist, I can try to talk about that but my point is that a vegan diet just doesn't taste good unless it cheats, causes gas issues etc.

Quote

Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 
 

Extra proteins lol

Quote

 

Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  
 

One day, I will do a pro primal diet file, something very serious.

Quote

 

Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Michael569]

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Vegan sources for B12 can be mushrooms, algae, cereals.

I would be careful with this. If you depend on those without supplements you will run into critical deficiencies and demyelination of your central nervous system. As a vegan, you MUST supplement B12 if you want to prevent irreversible neurological damage. 

Once a year you should also run either methylmalonic acid test or holo transcomabalamin test as serum B12 is inreliable. If you are 100% vegan, these may save you from lots of issues. 

The reason you have no problems is that you probably have good hepatic stores but if you don't supplement, you're gonna run out. 

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Algae. And it's better than fish. 

Algae are only a source of DHA, fish are a source of both EPA and DHA. They are not better or worse, they are the same gram for gram of DHA but they are less complete you could say where full Omega 3 profile is concerned. Combined with something like flax oil you should probably get all you need. 

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Why do all vegan athletes consume a significant amount of protein from rice, peas etc?  

that's an unfair argument against veganism. You would have to assume that omivores don't use those where in fact probably like 60% of gym goers take some form of protein isolate. Be objective  In fact I would go as far as to say if you put 100 vegan and 100 omnivore athletes next to eachother, omnivores would be loading up on significantly more additional protein than vegans (but I have no data to back this up, just a speculation on my end) 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Michael569

[Michael569]

On 19/04/2023 at 0:54 AM, M A J I said:

Today people have a toxic amount of variety and consume so many different foods a day and no wonder why their bodies and minds and emotions are a mess and have all types of allergies and diseases. T

Or maybe this is because people now live longer than those tribals you referred to? Yes, maybe 10,000 yrs ago people didn't have allergies but a pandemic of tuberculosis would have wiped out 80% of the tribe. Not to mention 9/10 children would not live to be 5 years old, mothers would be dying during labour and average lifespan being 30-40. Allergies might be the cost we pay for having eradicated  99% of deadly viruses and bacteria that were killing people left and righjt. Maybe that's a small price to pay for being sure you children don't die of smallpox? 

As per the mental distress and "mess" consider how our lifes have changed as the society has evolved. We live in different housing, people have more stressors, more burdens and more responsibilities which is causing mental distress - an average women no longer just cares about babies. Now she has a career, dependencies, bills to pay, body to take care of, a husband to satisfy, food to provide, deadlines to deliver, car to drive, grociers to take care of, household to manage, hobbies and interests to satisfy, parents to take care of (who now live longer and are more likely to get sick and need help) etc etc etc. I don't know about your life but I certianly cannot afford to sit and meditate for hours a day or live on fruits while running a business & having a 9-5 job, deadlines, projects, bills to pay in double-digit inflation etc. I could not do that on fruit juices, trust me I tried. (read below) 

I just want to make sure you are not having a distorted perspective of the world as it would seem from some of your comments. Maybe you are lucky to be able to afford a certain type of lifestyle that many cannot. If you live with parents or live in a place like California, south US, Australia or have a wealthy family, you may completely misrepresent what life is like for most people. I think that's important to appreciate. I can tell you that folks in cold UK, northern Europe, Germany, France or Baltic region cannot live on fruits in January.

Or imagine being a single mother living in Manchester UK or the suburban Washington DC with low level of education and an annual income of 18K having 3 jobs. You're glad if you can keep your kids alive with the cheapest diet possible without them going hungry, going dirty or turning to drugs. 

I know where you're coming from in general. I was a follower of Robert Morse, John Rose, Mangotarian (before he turned to dark side), I was a member of 30 Bananas a Day following Freelee and her craziness and even using ROber Morse's herbs for like 6 months to eradicate my allergies (didn't help as much) and all those sides and I was sold into the ideology of infinite body intelligence, fruit fasting and all of that. If if you look back enough, my comments on this forum 4-5 years ago reflected that. What happened is I started losing strength, libido, my gums eroded a few millimetres on bottom canines (that has never recovered since) and I generally felt like shit on a fruitarian diet. It was the most expensive and most challenging diet I've ever been on. 

But at some point, you come to a point where you see that this lifestyle is unattainable for most people.  And that's where a balance needs to come in. You introduce cooked food, some legumes, spices, some meat (unless ethically conflicted) and suddenly you feel much better. And I know protein is being thrown around a lot but despite that many people still walk around protein deficient as they try to navigate all the internet nonsense and are going from one fad to another. Even highly educated and well-off people struggle with this. I know the opinion of Robert Morse and his community on protein (acid causing, mucous causing and all that stuff) but without it people just feel like crap. What's the point of living like that? 

Don't take that as a criticism and ignore if doesn't resonate, it's just an observation and an attempt to draw the other side of the chasm. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Michael569

[ZenAlex]

On 18/04/2023 at 1:32 PM, Schizophonia said:

@ZenAlex

1)Plants doesn't have or/are very deficient on :

-B12

-EPA/DHA (unless you consume silly amounts of flax/chia seed)

-Vitamine A (same but with carrot juice, sweet potatoes etc.)

-Zinc (Vegetarianism will drastically increase the copper to zinc ratio, and increase the metabolism of dopamine to downstream stimulatory catecholamines, while having lower gaba signaling, zinc is also very necessary for the production of sperm and testosterone, it is literally one of the first supplements used to boost these.)

-Choline (Only in large quantities in eggs and animal flesh, necessary for the synthesis of seminal fluid and especially acetylcholine, itself necessary for good muscle and especially cerebral function, also serves to balance excess catecholamines.)

-L-Carnitine (also needed for the brain)

-Heme Iron A significant portion of the world's population is anemic, and even without it your levels may be too low. (that's my case).
You can't reverse anemia with non-heme iron unless you use monstrous amounts, and it will damage your gut flora.

-Proteins (sports vegans and in particular bodybuilders all gorge themselves on protein from peas, rice, hemp etc. There is a German powerlifter (that nobody knows lol) presented in the game changers, the guy made a video "what i eat in a day", he was literally fueled with protein powder smoothies.
Of course these athletes also do (or have done) roids, otherwise they are all slow and skinny fat.

I also sometimes see guys here quoting sadghuru, I don't know how you can take this guy for a reference in terms of spirituality and health, he is a caricature of a skinny fat Hindu guru who speaks in slow motion.
My grandfather who had terminal cancer had as much energy as him lol.

 

2)

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without.
Why do you have this slave mentality? were you humiliated in your childhood or something like that to the point of taking the holding back of your cravings as a virtue?
This is a recurrence among vegans, especially the most orthorexic.

I want to be nice to myself and others, I eat meat and sugar and I wish the same to the people I love.
You must read Nietzsche

Don't expect me to provide a detailed response if you've literally just googled "Why not to be vegan" and just copied and pasted a crappy response like this.

I've been vegan for 7 years. I've got blood tests. I'm not deficient in anything. Veganism is not a nutritionally deficient diet, and world health organisations have recognised it as a nutritionally sufficient diet. You can get everything you need from plants.

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without - Because eating animal products and contributing the exploitation of animals without a very good reason is immoral and also bad for the environment. 

The fact that you have to ask why a Vegan would typically go vegan makes me think you've not really researched this subject, if that wasn't already obvious by your cut and paste crap above about what you supposedly cannot get as a vegan.

Why do you have this slave mentality? Wtf are you talking about? Also I don't get any cravings.

[ZenAlex]

On 18/04/2023 at 5:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever. It is certainly not healthy. Of course that doesn't mean some amount of meat is bad for health. But all-meat is not the proper diet for a human. These social media influencers are selling you fantasies, both meat-eaters and vegans. Balance in your diet is key.

I appreciate your honest response about this. 

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

 

The problem is not to do or not to do what you have done in the past, the problem is that you are adapted to it whether you want to or not.

There is definitely much truth to that. But it is still possible that the adoption for diet A accidentally allowed diet B as well. Besides that humans survived with many different eating habits around the globe, some meat focused and some with very little meat. And if there is one thing that accelerated our evolution and brain growth the most it's the ability to heat things up. This paleo raw eating philosophy is completely BS. Our natural diet is a cooking diet. 

10 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm no archaeologist, I can try to talk about that but my point is that a vegan diet just doesn't taste good unless it cheats, causes gas issues etc.

Anything with lots of calories tastes good pretty much universally. You can find deer enjoying stake. Do you think that is natural? Or you can find Tigers munching on watermelon. Do you think that is natural?

Also do you think candy and fried food is healthy because it tastes good?

I think it's our oversupply of food that makes us delusional to the point where we confuse somewhat boring natural taste with toxicity. In Stone Age you would probably be very happy to munch on some roots and seeds.

 

[M A J I]

21 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Or maybe this is because people now live longer than those tribals you referred to? Yes, maybe 10,000 yrs ago people didn't have allergies but a pandemic of tuberculosis would have wiped out 80% of the tribe. Not to mention 9/10 children would not live to be 5 years old, mothers would be dying during labour and average lifespan being 30-40. Allergies might be the cost we pay for having eradicated  99% of deadly viruses and bacteria that were killing people left and righjt. Maybe that's a small price to pay for being sure you children don't die of smallpox? 

As per the mental distress and "mess" consider how our lifes have changed as the society has evolved. We live in different housing, people have more stressors, more burdens and more responsibilities which is causing mental distress - an average women no longer just cares about babies. Now she has a career, dependencies, bills to pay, body to take care of, a husband to satisfy, food to provide, deadlines to deliver, car to drive, grociers to take care of, household to manage, hobbies and interests to satisfy, parents to take care of (who now live longer and are more likely to get sick and need help) etc etc etc. I don't know about your life but I certianly cannot afford to sit and meditate for hours a day or live on fruits while running a business & having a 9-5 job, deadlines, projects, bills to pay in double-digit inflation etc. I could not do that on fruit juices, trust me I tried. (read below) 

I just want to make sure you are not having a distorted perspective of the world as it would seem from some of your comments. Maybe you are lucky to be able to afford a certain type of lifestyle that many cannot. If you live with parents or live in a place like California, south US, Australia or have a wealthy family, you may completely misrepresent what life is like for most people. I think that's important to appreciate. I can tell you that folks in cold UK, northern Europe, Germany, France or Baltic region cannot live on fruits in January.

Or imagine being a single mother living in Manchester UK or the suburban Washington DC with low level of education and an annual income of 18K having 3 jobs. You're glad if you can keep your kids alive with the cheapest diet possible without them going hungry, going dirty or turning to drugs. 

I know where you're coming from in general. I was a follower of Robert Morse, John Rose, Mangotarian (before he turned to dark side), I was a member of 30 Bananas a Day following Freelee and her craziness and even using ROber Morse's herbs for like 6 months to eradicate my allergies (didn't help as much) and all those sides and I was sold into the ideology of infinite body intelligence, fruit fasting and all of that. If if you look back enough, my comments on this forum 4-5 years ago reflected that. What happened is I started losing strength, libido, my gums eroded a few millimetres on bottom canines (that has never recovered since) and I generally felt like shit on a fruitarian diet. It was the most expensive and most challenging diet I've ever been on. 

But at some point, you come to a point where you see that this lifestyle is unattainable for most people.  And that's where a balance needs to come in. You introduce cooked food, some legumes, spices, some meat (unless ethically conflicted) and suddenly you feel much better. And I know protein is being thrown around a lot but despite that many people still walk around protein deficient as they try to navigate all the internet nonsense and are going from one fad to another. Even highly educated and well-off people struggle with this. I know the opinion of Robert Morse and his community on protein (acid causing, mucous causing and all that stuff) but without it people just feel like crap. What's the point of living like that? 

Don't take that as a criticism and ignore if doesn't resonate, it's just an observation and an attempt to draw the other side of the chasm. 

I am speaking much earlier than 10 thousand years ago, think 25 - 200+ thousand, I am speaking beyond the dark-ages, not after consciousness/intelligence dropped as people no longer consumed fruit or the "living" food because they naturally had lost the knowledge with intelligence decline. We lived hundreds and even thousands of years at one point... This is what you would call full 12 strand DNA activation. The air quality and cohesive ecosystem when humanity was actually Conscious and Intelligence was 1000x greater, we get so fined tuned that food is more for pleasure and can rely soly on cosmic forces or rays. Study the Yugas and Golden age. Tony Wright has great discussions explained how our brains actually evolved through fruit, not meat, this is common knowledge in my field and known for some time, but then again it goes even deeper than that..

So now we are now very fragmented with artificial environments, toxic air, fake foods ect... We have become degenerates overtime, synergistically(hence mass awakenings) we again are entering the silver/golden ages of the times past, universe is a spiral of cycles. What I share here will become more evident as consciousness/intelligence rises, it will make sense and you we will eventually be able to connect the dots. You judge me because you can only meet me as deep as you have met yourself. If i was being honest, almost everyone on these forums I encounter, I see a younger version of myself, and all I can really do is continue to be my example and speak my truth. The truth never changes, just the expression of it.

All your history and education has been spoon fed to you by the world and until you go beyond the world you cannot see beyond it, the knowledge that was lost with intelligence, requires that of like vibration to retap into it. Think of memory as a radio frequency, it is not confined to the brain, its a wave, if you vibrate accordingly, you match it, you see it, you remember it. Simple.

I do many of those things you mentioned and have more energy than most people around me and yet I consume mostly fruit? I see others around me rise and crash with every meal, while i fast 16 - 20 hours a day. You could not do it cause your vibration was yet to acclimate to that level of being and you may still need DNA reworking and activation, if that is relevant for you. Its a much longer (transition) for some than it is for others, and some don't transition.

There is no such thing as luck my friend, its called "alignment".

Abundance is your frequency, and your frequency is your currency.

There are people in those countries you mentioned that do thrive on fruits. I know many breatharians and fruitarians all over the world, there are many gatherings and festivals we partake in yearly. We know people that are hundreds of years old and don't look a day over 60. We are so conditioned by the western system we really have been significantly dumbed down by a techo-chemical imbalance we think "aging" is normal.

Give Mans Higher Consciousness by Hilton Hotema a read, it may help open up your eyes and mind. There is a lot you have yet to realize.

You felt like shit because as I said, you were not ready/aligned for it, you did it out of the mind and not actually following your body of consciousness, and or you did not do the deeper detoxing and de-programing, long fasting ect.. monk-mode... that are required for the regeneration and redesign of the cellular matrix. We as humans cannot return to perfection overnight, first the environment is far too toxic in most places for us to live without food, so for most people that is completely out of the window, but fruit is the closest thing to the optimal state, health and function of the human being we have, especially mono-fruit. Its how we are designed to pick and eat fruit.

Your assumptions are incorrect in my case, anything but fruit with the exception of some boiled or steamed veggies, nuts & seeds, sprouts, would significantly hinder my energy, power, clarity and overall experience. I have experimented many times my friend, I have been on this path for 15 or more years. I even gained muscle mass and natural tone with fruit without exercising because it is harmony with my frequency, and its most natural human being, so the body becomes beautiful, like the fruit, you become what you eat, and once my cellular structure was clean, I was able to fully utilize nutrients both via food and cosmic rays.

Most people do not have "deficiency issues" they have "absorption issues" because their bodies are so clogged up with toxins, processed foods, junk, sugar, salt ect.. paired with a toxic and radiated environments, most people are only at 10 - 20% total efficiency, most have no idea what is beyond that because they are full of junk..

Once you understand the "vibrational" aspect to things, you will understand the depth of which I speak. As Nikola Tesla said best, to understand the universe we must think in terms of "energy, frequency, vibration". Deficiencies and health issues only arise if your vibration is not fully aligned with your current diet/lifestyle. I posted a video a few pages back, I am guessing you did not see it, which explains these things very well and why and how these things work. P.S I never supplement for anything b12, iron, protein any of that stuff because I overstand "how it really works".

We cannot make the shift overnight from eating the wrong foods our whole lives and poor living environments for thousands of years that are deeply rooted within our collective conscious/psyche, and to become fruitarian and breatharian overnight is not happening for most of people, but its definitely possible now and with practice can be remastered, we have just been taught wrong and are very, shall we say.. rusty. It definitely will take time to regenerate and transition for most, but the rewards are enlightening to say the least...

Fruiit & Fasting makes our bodies "protest" to toxic environments and poor lifestyle habits and choices we make and live. That is why most struggle, so they need potatoes and meat to numb the pain and emotions and find some kind of more-grounded/less sensitive balance, because as you start to free your body up (from the inside) things are "brought up to the surface" to be met and faced and healed, this may be too much for those not ready to integrate such depth of truth.

Watch this video, it simplifies for you your experience.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

23 hours ago, Michael569 said:

 

that's an unfair argument against veganism. You would have to assume that omivores don't use those where in fact probably like 60% of gym goers take some form of protein isolate. Be objective  

Most guys who use whey only use a few ounces a day, and it's mostly orthorexics or bodybuilders who take it post-workout in a shaker thinking it will protect them from post-workout catabolism. .
Everyone insists on the interest of whey in terms of preparation time and the protein/price ratio, that's all.
There are many people who train without whey, including, cureisement, often powerlifters (where I am anyway), it is not absolutely necessary.

The real question I ask you is: where are the vegan athletes and more particularly those who abstain from vegetable proteins and/or especially roids?

Ps: I just saw what i eat in a day by Patrik Baboumian who is quoted in TGC for reccords (which nobody cares about), I laughed a lot, go see.

23 hours ago, Michael569 said:

In fact I would go as far as to say if you put 100 vegan and 100 omnivore athletes next to eachother, omnivores would be loading up on significantly more additional protein than vegans (but I have no data to back this up, just a speculation on my end) 

My performance increased by stopping veganism, as I went from around 150g of protein per day to around 100g.
It's the same thing that happened to youtubers I follow like Vegatable Police or Jon Venus.

Just try two weeks of fitness with lots of meat, eggs and maybe dairy, you'll see.

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Don't expect me to provide a detailed response if you've literally just googled "Why not to be vegan" and just copied and pasted a crappy response like this.

lol i probably have 10x more xp in nutrition than you can imagine

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

I've been vegan for 7 years. I've got blood tests. I'm not deficient in anything. Veganism is not a nutritionally deficient diet, and world health organisations have recognised it as a nutritionally sufficient diet. You can get everything you need from plants.

Because you supplement yourself, justifying a diet by very specific practices (supplementation in B12, in epa/dha by algae or a ton of flax/chia/hemp, vitamin a by a ton of carrot/sweet potato) is dishonest .

Also how do you know your markers are good?
While researching veganism on youtube I came across a youtuber (Hench Herbivore) who claimed to have good testosterone levels thanks to veganism, the guy had 400 to 500ng/dl, that's a bad score that brings him closer to a person with andropause or a preteen.

I also saw the complete blood test of Jon Venus' brother who is a doctor, his report was not terrible and lacked a certain number of nutrients by his own admission.
It was worth making sandwitches of whole wheat and germs straight out of hell lmao.

I have plenty of examples like that.

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without - Because eating animal products and contributing the exploitation of animals without a very good reason is immoral

So what ? To whom do you need to justify yourself? who will punish you? What is morality? Is this a code of conduct written somewhere in the sky?
Besides, do you pay attention to which company you buy your electronic products and even your fruits and vegetables or human exploitation is not a problem for you?

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

and also bad for the environment. 

No, livestock production "only" produces 14.5% of greenhouse gas emissions, cattle are possibly more problematic because of methane. Apart from that the animals do not cause water depletion and help to re-fertilize the soil through excrement and urine.

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

The fact that you have to ask why a Vegan would typically go vegan makes me think you've not really researched this subject, if that wasn't already obvious by your cut and paste crap above about what you supposedly cannot get as a vegan.

Dude, all the Vegan Doctors and YouTubers and their so-called reasons, I know them all. 

18 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Why do you have this slave mentality? Wtf are you talking about? Also I don't get any cravings.

"you don't need x so you shouldn't consume x" is a slave mentality yes.

This reflection has nothing to do with your cravings.

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

There is definitely much truth to that. But it is still possible that the adoption for diet A accidentally allowed diet B as well. Besides that humans survived with many different eating habits around the globe, some meat focused and some with very little meat. And if there is one thing that accelerated our evolution and brain growth the most it's the ability to heat things up. This paleo raw eating philosophy is completely BS. Our natural diet is a cooking diet. 

lol

https://ourworldindata.org/quaternary-megafauna-extinction

https://www.science.org/doi/pdf/10.1126/sciadv.abf9776

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51068816

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

Anything with lots of calories tastes good pretty much universally.

No, starches without condiments, even cooked, don't taste good, unripe fruits don't taste good, oil and refined sugar don't taste too good, rotten foods don't taste good, etc. etc.

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

You can find deer enjoying stake. Do you think that is natural? Or you can find Tigers munching on watermelon. Do you think that is natural?

Yes, the vast majority of animals are potentially omnivorous, and are just more suited to one type of food and will prefer it.
The more you are adapted to a food the more you will like it.

The point is, you don't like starches, it's a survival solution, and you're going to try to camouflage their taste with subterfuge.
You want nice, juicy meat, and some fruit/dairy if you can digest it, possibly tubers/white flour starches if you're in fruit shortage and/or starving and your mitochondria are adapted to high carbohydrate diet for some time.

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

Also do you think candy and fried food is healthy because it tastes good?

They are not natural products and cheat on your palate, and in fact even if they are attractive for attavic reasons they are quickly sickening and even disgusting.

16 hours ago, Jannes said:

I think it's our oversupply of food that makes us delusional to the point where we confuse somewhat boring natural taste with toxicity. In Stone Age you would probably be very happy to munch on some roots and seeds.

Stone Age men weren't some kind of violent, hungry monkeys who ate anything while shouting "ouga ouga ouga"
I don't know if you understand what you're saying, but if the first men had to settle for "seeds and roots", they would be dead and you wouldn't be here.

And there is nothing complicated to know what is natural or not, you can imagine that bean packets do not grow in trees and that you cannot fish knackis, it is elementary logic.

@M A J I

What you say sounds like a psychotic delirium without any basis or proof, I think you also mentioned the yugas which is Hindu bullshit.

Frugivorous diets do not work and have made thousands of people thin, without sexual energy, made them lose teeth...

Animal products and dense/rich in fats are associated with self-expression, fat peasants who eat too much and laugh a lot while drinking too much wine are very fond of these "yang" foods, as well as children, stressed/damaged people by life who need to be comforted etc.

But it is on your self-expression and your excesses that you can be attacked and conflicted.
People who have been humiliated at times when they were helpless become neurotic and tend to turn to foods that are at best fresh, at worst boring (yin foods if you will) and generally turn to some kind of asceticism. because they become unassailable.

[M A J I]

@Schizophonia It does not matter to me what you think nor makes any difference, your mind is (fixated) and convinced that way... and there's nothing I can do about that, only time will tell if the seeds will sprout or not. I will continue to share the truth regardless but won't argue endlessly and pointlessly.

Out of many fruitarians I know, only a few uneducated and unprepared ones experience health issues, most thrive and some of the most "alive" people I know and not zombified like you would see with the average englishman/american ect...

Plant fats like avocado, durian, coconut, olives ect.. are superior to animal-fats in many ways when we are talking about the homosapian. Even Nikola Tesla stated plant foods are superior, one of the highest geniuses known to mankind.

Not for everyone I agree as everyone is at different levels of conscious experiencing but you cannot really argue with the fact that humans are frugivore by natural design. If you cannot see it, how clear and evident it is, then I cannot help you further. The entire anatomy, biology, DNA says otherwise.. but we can agree to disagree because I can already see your energy.

Hell even Jeff juices recently uploaded a video where he also talks about how he gained weight and muscle on fruit-based diet and lifestyle long term juicing and fasting https://www.instagram.com/p/CrQbhj8JxW4/

I believe once you do long term juicing and fasting and heal properly, you will be able to realize what a far more efficient human being operating on a higher energy bandwidth feels like, and there is a simple reason why that occurs. Its human nature.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by M A J I

[Michael569]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Ps: I just saw what i eat in a day by Patrik Baboumian who is quoted in TGC for reccords (which nobody cares about), I laughed a lot, go see.

this guys is a joke, I can't believe he has so much publicity - he was never the strongest man, I don't know where that even came from. His records never even came close to Eddie Hall or Bryan Shaw. He is a glorified celebrity on roids and powders - yeah, I would not take this dude as an example of a healthy vegan diet for sure  

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

where are the vegan athletes and more particularly those who abstain from vegetable proteins and/or especially roids?

do you think every vegan in the gym wears a t-shirt "plant-powered" like a clown? Not all need to attract attention to themselves. Plenty of athlestes out there who are meat-free. What even is a definition of an athlete? If you are thinking about world class lifter then there are very few but plenty of plant based folks are fit and agile but not famous. 

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

There are many people who train without whey, including, cureisement, often powerlifters (where I am anyway), it is not absolutely necessary.

agreed

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

t's the same thing that happened to youtubers I follow like Vegatable Police or Jon Venus.

No, Vegetable Police is a poser who likes to create drama. I have been following his journey for around 4 years before I realised that for him it is always about "what's the new crazy thing I can be doing"

I was even in his Patreon Group at one point. In fact he will tell you that neither carnivore nor vegan nor paleo nor keto nor anything else worked for him. He'll always bring up how everything flares up his IBD and then do some lunacy rather than actually stick to one protocol long enough. His content is all about jibberish and monkey business. I've stopped taking him seriously a long time ago. He is a funny guy tho and gave me many laughs over the year but his health content is all over the place. The camera channel is pretty hilarious I have to admit and he is also a really talented music producer - I bought his album couple years ago and it was really cool. 

As per John Venus, I don't believe he ever gave fuck about animals. He is a poser and always has been. I wouldn't be surprised if he was, all that time, snacking on meat behind the scenes. He and his wife are just your typical Youtube fitness pseudo-fitness gurus selling cookie cutter overpriced plans. When I spoke to him on vegfest in London, I didn't buy the things he was saying - his body language did not confirm the words he was speaking. But he is a good marketers and a good business man, that's for sure. And he looks like a Greek god with a face that melts your heart which does help  

Nimai Delgado might be a better example although I'm not sure to what degree he is roid free, he probably is. 

If you want to see a healthy example, the best one I can think of is Derek Simnet and Krystal Kennings from Simnet Nutrition. I spoke to both of them on VegFest and they are the most charming couple out there. I am sure Richard Burgees from Vegan Gains behind all that drama and depression is a decent guy who just needs to learn to let go and take a step back. 

But yah overall the vegan influencer scene is riddled with posers, fake natties and a lot of pseudoscience but there are good examples of really caring people who do good things. 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Michael569

[The0Self]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:41 AM, Michael569 said:

Algae are only a source of DHA, fish are a source of both EPA and DHA.

Most of the numbers I've seen show that they do have EPA, but it is always at a lower amount than DHA. And there's some evidence to suggest that EPA intake should exceed DHA. So in a way you're correct but it seems like you meant they have no EPA. But it's not like it's conclusive that EPA must exceed DHA for optimal health... I'm pretty sure algae has at least some EPA, and it's not miniscule like 1% of DHA content either, more like 20-50% (at most half the amount) of the DHA content's value, is the EPA content.

[StarStruck]

Me after reading this topic. 

[hyruga]

How are you going to get past constipation without fruits and vegetables?

[thepixelmonk]

lmao anatomy has no value, man the mental gymnastics is strong in this one.

[Lila9]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:41 PM, Michael569 said:

I would be careful with this. If you depend on those without supplements you will run into critical deficiencies and demyelination of your central nervous system. As a vegan, you MUST supplement B12 if you want to prevent irreversible neurological damage. 

Once a year you should also run either methylmalonic acid test or holo transcomabalamin test as serum B12 is inreliable. If you are 100% vegan, these may save you from lots of issues. 

The reason you have no problems is that you probably have good hepatic stores but if you don't supplement, you're gonna run out. 

Yes, I take B12 to be sure I won't have deficiencies. My point was that people who rely on meat diet and it's their only source of B12, aren't necessarily immune to B12 deficiency.

On 4/20/2023 at 2:41 PM, Michael569 said:

Algae are only a source of DHA, fish are a source of both EPA and DHA. They are not better or worse, they are the same gram for gram of DHA but they are less complete you could say where full Omega 3 profile is concerned. Combined with something like flax oil you should probably get all you need. 

From the research that I've done, algae are a source of DHA and EPA. And it's better than fish in the sense that it's not as toxic as fish. 

[M A J I]

Can you eat meat raw and bloody without cooking it and adding all different salts (minerals) and herbs/spices (plants) that you actually crave... not the meat itself? If you craved the meat you wouldn't need to add 'salts' and 'additives' and plants to make it flavorful and palatable. You would simply hunt, kill, eat and drink fresh blood like a feline does and wont get an upset stomach, but you are clearly not a feline or canine, nor a bear... maybe a delusional or psychopath... if you enjoy it raw...

Why do you think garlic, clove and onion have always been intuitively added to meat while cooking? Cause especially garlic and clove target and kill parasites. Meat is full of parasites, what controls the gut controls the mind. Those are not hunger pains or cramps you are experiencing.

Fruit is the natural food because you don't need to flavor it, you don't need to cook it or alter it in anyway, you don't need to add additives like salt or sugar to make it palatable to the human taste.. Its right in front of our very eyes, but to a mind that is blind.. I guess its invisible.

Even vegetable is not the same, we are not cows, we don't have hooves, if we need to add 'salts' and 'flavors' we are missing the point entirely.

A baby will never intuitively eat the rabbit and play with the apple, and 9/10 times it will pick the fruit over the vegetable.

Why are baby foods 90% fruit-based? because its the gentlest on the human body. Yet people think fruit is merely a snack.

Why is there a fruit bowl on almost every kitchen bench in almost every house? These things are some big wake-up calls most do not see. Others are just in utter denial of truth and they cannot accept the fact that everything they've been taught is a lie, they've invested so much on a false-life, and the rest are just 'drug addicts' too deep to even realize it themselves.

Then God said, “I give you every (seed-bearing plant) on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has (fruit) with (seed) in it. They will be yours for (food). Genesis 1:29

I could go all day but you get my drift... If you cannot "see" past what i have just shared then I cannot help you.

Edited April 23, 2023 by M A J I

[Michael569]

@The0Self @Lila9 you guys are correct, algae do indeed contain EPA, dunno why I had that wrong. Thanks for the correction