Marianne Williamson Is Running For President

[Hardkill]

51 minutes ago, Emerald said:

The progressive base will definitely know. They’re already aware. So, that’s your 15-20% right there.

And if the mainstream media actually covers the Democratic primary, then people will know in general.

But if the latter doesn’t happen, there are still waves to be made. And Marianne has quite a few powerful and famous connections that she can utilize.

And she can drum up even more anti-establishment support by publicly calling out the media’s establishment bias.

You underestimate how much appeal outsiders who challenge the system have in the eyes of many mainstream Americans.

Has she ever given an incredibly rousing  and memorable keynote speech to a massive crowd like the way that Obama did when he was only a state legislature  in 2004?

Has she even proven herself to garner as much of a broad appeal as Bill Clinton got after he first came out of nowhere in the early 90s for his VERY FIRST presidential bid?

Also, neither Obama nor Clinton started off as particularly high profile establishment type politicians when they each ran for president for the first time. Yet, they each made up for it for being to inspire 45-69 million people to love them. Obama particularly has had exceptional levels of charisma.

Btw, to be fair with what you said about Obama being more progressive than moderate. He was significantly more to the left than Clinton and most Democrats in the 90s and early 2000s were. However, Obama was still a neoliberal/corporate Democrat as he was still beholden to a number of corporate donors and affluent professionals and less influenced by labor unions and the working class. Nevertheless, his passing of the ACA was such a historic achievement that had eluded presidents since Teddy Roosevelt in 1901-1909. Plus, unlike Clinton who passed laws with Congress that deregulated the banks and Wall Street and contributed to the 2008 financial crisis, Obama passed major legislation with Congress that involved major regulations designed to avoid the same kind of financial mess that ruined the economy in 2008.

Overall, Clinton in the 90s was very centrist Democrat, Obama was more of a center-left Democratic President, and Biden is an even more progressive center-left Democrat than Obama was. Biden is actually more pro-union than Obama and Clinton were.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Hardkill

[Emerald]

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

Mark my words and anticipate the eventual “I told you so.”

Feel free to gloat if she gets there.

I think you over-estimate the size of the progressive base. And I'm not even sure how many progressives will like her. The smart progressives will not waste their time voting for unelectable people. Then again, many progressives are foolish and naive, so maybe they will.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

@Emerald The only thing she will do is act as a spoiler for the democrats. By taking some voters away from Biden, she will actually help trump win, just like Edward Kennedy (who primaried Carter) helped Reagan win by taking voters away from Carter.

[Hardkill]

3 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

@Emerald The only thing she will do is act as a spoiler for the democrats. By taking some voters away from Biden, she will actually help trump win, just like Edward Kennedy (who primaried Carter) helped Reagan win by taking voters away from Carter.

That's exactly what I am worried about. If there's a serious division within the party in power then that will weaken the incumbent candidate as much  as a third party spoiler does.

[Jacob Morres]

Bernie lost despite his massive base, mass appeal(imo, but ig not)  and clean history 

I'll see Marianne winning in like 50-100y maybe 

I just think America is still too spirally low for her..  I wish 

Look at the last election, and how many people voted for someone like trump... we had a near 50/50 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[Danioover9000]

@Jacob Morres

3 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

Bernie lost despite his massive base, mass appeal(imo, but ig not)  and clean history 

I'll see Marianne winning in like 50-100y maybe 

I just think America is still too spirally low for her..  I wish 

Look at the last election, and how many people voted for someone like trump... we had a near 50/50 

   Yeah, just going from number and statistics in the past, most will likely not vote for Marianne Williamson that much, if already 50% of the population voted for Trump, and the rest voted for Biden. Very little vote for progressives. We need a progressive Trump character if we want to see many more votes for a progressive, but they can't play that game without undermining their ideology as well. Tough spot.

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

3 hours ago, Hardkill said:

That's exactly what I am worried about. If there's a serious division within the party in power then that will weaken the incumbent candidate as much  as a third party spoiler does.

   That's exciting, maybe the Republicans or even Trump can take advantage of that scenario.

[Danioover9000]

@How to be wise

4 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Emerald The only thing she will do is act as a spoiler for the democrats. By taking some voters away from Biden, she will actually help trump win, just like Edward Kennedy (who primaried Carter) helped Reagan win by taking voters away from Carter.

   That could be an interesting possibility for sure.

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Feel free to gloat if she gets there.

I think you over-estimate the size of the progressive base. And I'm not even sure how many progressives will like her. The smart progressives will not waste their time voting for unelectable people. Then again, many progressives are foolish and naive, so maybe they will.

I’m not over-estimating the size of the progressive base. I said 15-20% of registered Democrats. That’s probably about 5-8% of general society.

I think that’s a fair estimate…. and probably a bit of an underestimate given that Bernie was very popular.

Progressives will like her because progressives pay attention to policy. And she has similar policy proposals to Bernie.

And you’re being a bit closed minded here.

You have a very conscious candidate running for president that supports many of the policy positions that YOU agree with.

And because running for president is such a high profile endeavor, this will create a catalyst for forward movement in that direction. And that catalyzing force will be stronger the more support that she gets.

So, it’s not foolish to vote for her in the primary… ESPECIALLY if what you say is true that she isn’t going to win the primary.

If you genuinely think she has no chance and Biden is such a shoo-win, then it’s foolish for you not to vote for her in the primary.

In fact, it would be incredibly foolish not to vote for her in the primary, if you’re a person who’s in favor of progressive policies and societal evolution.

Even if she loses the primary, supporting her is a vote to shift the Overton Window in a more conscious direction. You’d be throwing away an opportunity. Consider not doing that.

What could it hurt?

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Emerald The only thing she will do is act as a spoiler for the democrats. By taking some voters away from Biden, she will actually help trump win, just like Edward Kennedy (who primaried Carter) helped Reagan win by taking voters away from Carter.

She’s only running against Biden as a Democrat in the Democratic PRIMARY.

Biden and Marianne are competing to be the Democratic nominee.

And whoever the Democratic nominee will be, will be going head to head against the Republican nominee.

So, she can’t possibly act as a spoiler. She’ll either be the candidate or she won’t.

It will either be Marianne or Biden going to the general against DeSantis or Trump.

And as long as she doesn’t run 3rd party in the general, she literally can’t act as a spoiler.

And she’s not stupid. She wouldn’t run third party in the general to act as a spoiler to Biden.

[knakoo]

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

And Marianne Williamson will definitely get more support that Yang did because it’s only her versus Biden.

Should we not expect other candidates for the primary, even if Biden is in ?

 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Should we not expect other candidates for the primary, even if Biden is in ?

 

Others in the establishment won’t run in the primary because Biden is the incumbent president.

So, it would be unwise for establishment Democrats to run against Biden because it would cause them career problems.

[knakoo]

23 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Others in the establishment won’t run in the primary because Biden is the incumbent president.

So, it would be unwise for establishment Democrats to run against Biden because it would cause them career problems.

What about other non establishment candidates ? 

"With nine minor candidates on the ballot in New Hampshire, there was a debate at Saint Anselm College in Goffstown, New Hampshire on December 19, 2011,[4] in which seven candidates participated." I just read this on "2012 Democratic Party presidential primaries" wiki page

So we can expect several "minor" candidates to give it a try I suppose. 

[Emerald]

29 minutes ago, knakoo said:

What about other non establishment candidates ? 

"With nine minor candidates on the ballot in New Hampshire, there was a debate at Saint Anselm College in Goffstown, New Hampshire on December 19, 2011,[4] in which seven candidates participated." I just read this on "2012 Democratic Party presidential primaries" wiki page

So we can expect several "minor" candidates to give it a try I suppose. 

Maybe. But it isn’t typical for other candidates to run in a presidential primary against an incumbent.

What Marianne is doing in running in the Democratic primary against the current Democratic Party president is very uncommon.

But perhaps other outsiders will jump into the race since she has. And that honestly wouldn’t be a terrible thing either.

More choices = more Democracy

Edit: The last time an incumbent president was primaried by someone running as a member of the same political party was when Pat Buchanan primaried Bush Sr. like 30+ years ago.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Emerald

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Maybe. But it isn’t typical for other candidates to run in a presidential primary against an incumbent.

What Marianne is doing in running in the Democratic primary against the current Democratic Party president is very uncommon.

But perhaps other outsiders will jump into the race since she has. And that honestly wouldn’t be a terrible thing either.

More choices = more Democracy

Edit: The last time an incumbent president was primaried by someone running as a member of the same political party was when Pat Buchanan primaried Bush Sr. like 30+ years ago.

Pat Buchanan's primary attempt kinda weakened Bush Sr. back then when Bush ran for re-election. 

Again, any kind of serious divisions within the Party holding the White House causes as much damage to the incumbent presidential nominee as a third party spoiler does.

This was one big reason why Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. A big chuck of Bernie Sanders' followers decided to vote for either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or stay home and not vote at all. If there weren't any big divisions within the Democratic party back then, then Hillary would've won.

Btw, did you watch what Dan Pfieffer said here?

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Hardkill

[aurum]

8 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Pat Buchanan's primary attempt kinda weakened Bush Sr. back then when Bush ran for re-election. 

Again, any kind of serious divisions within the Party holding the White House causes as much damage to the incumbent presidential nominee as a third party spoiler does.

This was one big reason why Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. A big chuck of Bernie Sanders' followers decided to vote for either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or stay home and not vote at all. If there weren't any big divisions within the Democratic party back then, then Hillary would've won.

Btw, did you watch what Dan Pfieffer said here?

 

Some amount of division is good. Division can create competition among candidates.

If you take no division to its ultimate conclusion, you get a monarchy. Not saying I believe you are advocating for that, but I think it’s good to be cognizant here of the limitation of both sides.

Too much division = support is too diffused and splintered. Too little division = authoritarian, lack of choices and a lack of checks and balances.

[Emerald]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Pat Buchanan's primary attempt kinda weakened Bush Sr. back then when Bush ran for re-election. 

Again, any kind of serious divisions within the Party holding the White House causes as much damage to the incumbent presidential nominee as a third party spoiler does.

This was one big reason why Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. A big chuck of Bernie Sanders' followers decided to vote for either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or stay home and not vote at all. If there weren't any big divisions within the Democratic party back then, then Hillary would've won.

Btw, did you watch what Dan Pfieffer said here?

 

George Bush Sr. still won re-election. So, Pat Buchanan’s run didn’t hurt him.

And I don’t suspect that this will create an issue for Biden in the general… especially because of the negative voter turnout to avoid a DeSantis or Trump presidency.

But either way, democracy is democracy. And the political system benefits from incumbent politicians being primaried.

[Emerald]

Great political ad!

[How to be wise]

21 hours ago, Emerald said:

She’s only running against Biden as a Democrat in the Democratic PRIMARY.

Biden and Marianne are competing to be the Democratic nominee.

And whoever the Democratic nominee will be, will be going head to head against the Republican nominee.

So, she can’t possibly act as a spoiler. She’ll either be the candidate or she won’t.

It will either be Marianne or Biden going to the general against DeSantis or Trump.

And as long as she doesn’t run 3rd party in the general, she literally can’t act as a spoiler.

And she’s not stupid. She wouldn’t run third party in the general to act as a spoiler to Biden.

Many Marianne supporters aren’t going to vote for someone that beat her.