Marianne Williamson Is Running For President

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I'm not worried about her at all.

That's possible, but I generally don't vote for people who clearly have no chance of winning. My politics is pragmatic vs utopian.

But in this case it’s the most pragmatic to your goals of forward movement up the spiral to support her.

There are practical benefits to supporting her that extend far beyond her simply securing the nomination.

That would be nice, of course. But it’s not necessary for her to win for her campaign to wake a lot of people up and to have an impact on the Overton Window.

Similarly with Bernie. He never became president. But his campaign was a MASSIVE success because it politically woke so many people up… including myself.

And Marianne can have a similar effect if those who already agree with her message support her.

The primary is not really the time to be super focused on electability…. for two reasons.

Number one, since Biden (at this point) is likely a shoo-win, there’s no downside to supporting her. Biden will likely get the nomination anyway.

Number two, if she miraculously is able to beat Biden in the primary (which are slim odds)… then I’d be pretty confident she could also beat the Republican nominee in the general because it would mean that her message is so popular with the American people that it overcame the odds.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But in this case it’s the most pragmatic to your goals of forward movement up the spiral to support her.

There are practical benefits to supporting her that extend far beyond her simply securing the nomination.

That would be nice, of course. But it’s not necessary for her to win for her campaign to wake a lot of people up and to have an impact on the Overton Window.

Similarly with Bernie. He never became president. But his campaign was a MASSIVE success because it politically woke so many people up… including myself.

And Marianne can have a similar effect if those who already agree with her message support her.

You make some good points. I will consider it.

Quote

Number two, if she miraculously is able to beat Biden in the primary (which are slim odds)… then I’d be pretty confident she could also beat the Republican nominee in the general because it would mean that her message is so popular with the American people that it overcame the odds.

This I seriously disagree with.

She would likely lose the general election to a Republican. Especially DeSantis.

What I'm most worried about is DeSantis. He is the most serious threat. Hopefully Trump is narcissistic enough to block him. But DeSantis will be a very serious threat in 2028 then.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

Yes, but I would argue it’s more than that.

It’s clear from my study of ACIM and other New Thought teachings that “sickness is an illusion” would be a pretty accurate statement of what they believe. But of course, you must also understand what such a statement actually means. 

https://lessons.acim.org/en/chapters/lesson-136

So yes, the View critique is missing context. I’m not worried about Marianne trying to enforce faith healing across the country. But I do suspect her beliefs towards illness carry a strong metaphysical / spiritual component.

Yes, I’m certain of that as well. And in my experience, there is a huge emotional/spiritual component to physical ailments.

 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You make a good point.

This is seriously disagree with.

She would likely lose the general election to a Republican.

At this point, she would certainly lose in the primary and the general. Undoubtedly that’s the case right now.

But her message is one of economic populism put in simple straightforward terms that the average American can understand.

She speaks to people’s pain and positions her presidential campaign as a powerful solution to that pain.

And if she is able to harness the emotional current that she’s attempting to harness and best Biden in the primary (which is a long shot)… then I’d be quite confident that she could beat the Republican nominee in the general.

[Danioover9000]

@Emerald

8 hours ago, Emerald said:

At this point, she would certainly lose in the primary and the general. Undoubtedly that’s the case right now.

But her message is one of economic populism put in simple straightforward terms that the average American can understand.

She speaks to people’s pain and positions her presidential campaign as a powerful solution to that pain.

And if she is able to harness the emotional current that she’s attempting to harness and best Biden in the primary (which is a long shot)… then I’d be quite confident that she could beat the Republican nominee in the general.

   You must accept that she will be defeated this year. America won't be receptive to her messaging or principals until 50-100 years later.

[aurum]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

Yes, I’m certain of that as well. And in my experience, there is a huge emotional/spiritual component to physical ailments.

 

For sure.

There is an irony to the View critique and Krystal + Kyle coming to her defense. The irony is that Marianne actually has an advanced understanding of the metaphysics of disease, more so than even many doctors.

From my POV this is a plus, not a negative. But of course it can be framed as a negative. Especially when looked at through the materialist paradigm, which cannot make sense of her metaphysical positions.

Her health care plan reflects her understanding and is more holistic, which I very much appreciate.

[Emerald]

14 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald

   You must accept that she will be defeated this year. America won't be receptive to her messaging or principals until 50-100 years later.

We’ll see. Let’s let things unfold before banging the gavel.

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, aurum said:

For sure.

There is an irony to the View critique and Krystal + Kyle coming to her defense. The irony is that Marianne actually has an advanced understanding of the metaphysics of disease, more so than even many doctors.

From my POV this is a plus, not a negative. But of course it can be framed as a negative. Especially when looked at through the materialist paradigm, which cannot make sense of her metaphysical positions.

Her health care plan reflects her understanding and is more holistic, which I very much appreciate.

Same here. But she should definitely make it clear that she’s not neglecting the materialist paradigm. They will try to make it seem like she’s anti-science or anti-allopathic medicine when she isn’t.

[Emerald]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You make some good points. I will consider it.

This I seriously disagree with.

She would likely lose the general election to a Republican. Especially DeSantis.

What I'm most worried about is DeSantis. He is the most serious threat. Hopefully Trump is narcissistic enough to block him. But DeSantis will be a very serious threat in 2028 then.

I’m concerned about DeSantis too. I’m a Floridian, and my 11 year old daughter had no math book for the first several weeks of 6th grade because DeSantis pulled them for having “Critical Race Theory” in them.

And he’s being super authoritarian and banning books. I’d hate to see what he does as president. He’s awful enough as governor.

But it seems like the winds are shifting back to Trump as the Republican nominee. 

Trump (of course) is a terrible choice as well. And authoritarianism isn’t totally off the table… especially with the election denial.

But Vaush said it best when he said something to the nature of “Trump would send people to death camps if he thought it would benefit him politically. But DeSantis would send people to death camps because he’d enjoy sending people to death camps.”

But I still say that if Marianne can beat Biden, she can beat the Republican. Chances are that she won’t beat Biden, but if she does it shows that her movement has caught fire.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

But Vaush said it best when he said something to the nature of “Trump would send people to death camps if he thought it would benefit him politically. But DeSantis would send people to death camps because he’d enjoy sending people to death camps.”

There are not going to be any death camps. Don't strawman the right. They are foolish, but not that bad. Vaush is a master of strawmanning the right all as Nazis. This is a juvenile level of political analysis.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are not going to be any death camps. Don't strawman the right. They are foolish, but not that bad. Vaush is a master of strawmanning the right all as Nazis. This is a juvenile level of political analysis.

What I said was a reflection of my feelings about DeSantis… not of my feelings about the average right winger.

I genuinely don’t think the right are all Nazis. I grew up in a very conservative area and most are not in favor of things like that.

And most right wingers would be vehemently against things like death camps at this juncture in time.

The formula for getting average people to support heinous things requires a demagogue and years of propaganda for there to be a movement in the direction of death camps and the like in average members of the populace.

But I do think DeSantis could be a demagogue if he wanted to be.

And I’m not entirely convinced that he doesn’t want to be given his political track record as governor thus far and his history in Guantanamo Bay.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

What I said was a reflection of my feelings about DeSantis

DeDantis is not going to send people to death camps. This is an absurd characterization of him. We need a more nuanced view of right-wingers.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

DeDantis is not going to send people to death camps. This is an absurd characterization of him. We need a more nuanced view of right-wingers.

Again, it’s not about him being a right winger at all. It’s about him being him.

He’s banning books and greenlighting intentionally vague legislation that can charge teachers with felonies and loss of their license if they have books in their classroom that goes against those intentionally vague policies.

The outcome has been that many teachers have taken all the books out of their classrooms.

He tried to pass legislation called the “Stop Woke Act” which would prohibit colleges from teaching about gender and racism in ways that are loosely defined as “woke”. Luckily that was slapped down by a federal judge because it was in violation of the 1st amendment. The judge called it “dystopian”.

He was also trying to do this thing a few years back where he wanted to make all college professors fill out a survey with their political affiliation on it. And he wanted to penalize colleges that had too high of a percentage of liberal professors compared to conservative professors by taking away funding.

Then, he also did the shenanigans with trafficking immigrants over state lines to Martha’s Vineyard.

Then, there’s his background in Guantanamo Bay working with detainees. And there are allegations of him participating in force feeding torture practices.

None of this looks good. And none of this is about him being a Republican.

I expect authoritarianism from him because of his track record.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Again, it’s not about him being a right winger at all. It’s about him being him.

I'm well aware of his record.

This is pretty standard right-wing policy stuff. The whole right-wing is anti-woke at this point. And it has nothing to do with death camps.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[JTL]

@Leo Gura I think it is hard to deny that Tucker Carlson and DeSantis are white supremacist from their policies, to gops overall strategy. What do you think? 

[Danioover9000]

@Emerald  I'm surprised you agree with how Vaush is straw manning the right and think it's okay. Donald Trump nor DeSantis would be sending people to death camps in current era or anytime soon. This rhetoric is problematic due to it being a thought terminating cliché and majority would not engage with good faith and charitability. 

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

We’ll see. Let’s let things unfold before banging the gavel.

   Don't you mean gravel?

[Danioover9000]

@JTL

6 minutes ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura I think it is hard to deny that Tucker Carlson and DeSantis are white supremacist from their policies, to gops overall strategy. What do you think? 

   I think it's problematic to label them as such, as it kills any good faith and charitable takes you can have with them. You can attack a person's actions and behavior, but as soon as you attack a person's identity, that kills discussions quickly.

[JTL]

Sometimes a bird, is just a bird. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura I think it is hard to deny that Tucker Carlson and DeSantis are white supremacist from their policies, to gops overall strategy. What do you think? 

I don't like that characterization. This whole calling things "white supremacist" isn't very intelligent. There are many complex factors at work.

10 minutes ago, JTL said:

Sometimes a bird, is just a bird. 

And sometimes a bird is just a Nazi

Edited March 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm well aware of his record.

This is pretty standard right-wing policy stuff. The whole right-wing is anti-woke at this point. And it has nothing to do with death camps.

No, it most certainly isn’t standard right wing policy stuff.

It’s being done in a deeply authoritarian way that should make anyone prick up their ears.

Also, I used Vaush’s “death camps” quote not to say that I think there will be actual death camps, but as a way to compare DeSantis and Trump’s relationship to authoritarianism.

My argument was never that DeSantis is going to literally do death camps.