Frank Yang on TOE with Curt Jaimungal Interview

[Jodistrict]

22 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

To call buddhism a religion is not very fair, in it's totality. 

Google just gives you the Western view of Buddhism.  The West is a left brain culture.  When I lived in Thailand nobody ever talked about philosophy.  They were more concerned about making merit. 

But here is a balanced article that considers both points of view.

https://www.lionsroar.com/is-buddhism-a-religion-november-2013/
 

[Yimpa]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:37 PM, Leo Gura said:

But follow whatever path resonates with you most. Just don't expect me to follow any human teachings. I am playing a much deeper game.

Nah dude, I agree with you on transcending even nonduality.

When I first met my current therapist a year ago, I mentioned being into nonduality. She (implicitly) communicated to me that nonduality is ultimately bs 

And, yes, my therapist IS me!  

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

She (implicitly) communicated to me that nonduality is ultimately bs 

There's criticism of nonduality from above, and from below. So watch out.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ValiantSalvatore]

15 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Google just gives you the Western view of Buddhism.  The West is a left brain culture.  When I lived in Thailand nobody ever talked about philosophy.  They were more concerned about making merit. 

But here is a balanced article that considers both points of view.

I don't have much time on this timer, I does not matter I lived in China, yes it might be some traditional - rational type of organisation, if you consider it's true essence there simply is buddhist philosophy as soon as more rational and abstractive thought is introduced and meta-thinking. 

True balance is recognizing that the west is way ahead currently, and is now catching up spiritualy.

Yes, for sure it can be a religion there. The merit idea I get it I lived in China, it's pure SD orange though.

I have friend from Thailand who did retreats in an organisation from there, and who is an A.I researcher. I get where you are coming from, I doubt it's beyond purple -> orange, for simplicities sake. No need to run a 2h long analysis. Wilber did enough here, and there is close to 0 view from east to west. 

With that level of depth. It was also from Wikipedia! Not google.. .we get to the same conclusions with b.s talking and re-framing to fit the ego, no need I like Buddhism, mostly as a philosophy and a "beign thing" to be explored. 

I know LionsRoar, I appreciate the share! There are also various questions I have about west, east, south and north... 

So yeah.

Edited March 4, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

Once you start taking Buddhism seriously, it effectively becomes the operating system of your mind. You don't yet appreciate how limiting and dangerous that is -- if you're a serious truth-seeker. Now, if you just wanna dabble in spirituality and not think too hard, Buddhism is okay. But if you want to get to the bedrock of Consciousness, you will have to be way more intelligent then aping some Buddhists -- be they West or East.

You cannot reach the highest levels of Consciousness by aping any human. You have to think completely original thoughts! You have to navigate without any map. You MUST tap into true Intelligence! Only the highest Intelligence will cut through all the illusions, constructions, and limits of your mind. You need to become so Intelligent that your mind sees through Buddhism like an x-ray. That way you can move beyond into trans-human and Alien Consciousness.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

@Leo Gura what do you think of Islam? It's by far the only religion that describes god in a way close to what you teach.. That there is only one universal consciousness that preceeded every single thing into existence. And he is eternal and omniscient and omnipotent etc 

If you read the Quran, you will find a very striking straightforward description of God and the infinitude of God in a very poetic manner. 

I'm actually considering converting to Islam. 

Honestly, me as an Indian, I think that Buddhism is weak sauce. Buddha himself said that there isn't a God. He only focused on understanding and eliminating suffering. That is the bulk of the Buddhist teaching. 

Could you make a video about comparing religions? 

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

what do you think of Islam?

It will be worse than Buddhism. At least Buddhism forces you to meditate properly.

Why do you need some tit to suck on? Why can't you think for yourself?

Edited March 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It will be worse than Buddhism. At least Buddhism forces you to meditate properly.

Why do you need some tit to suck on? Why can't you think for yourself?

Well.. I can't think for myself because I'm not awakened. So all that is left for me is to follow a spiritual teaching or a spiritual tradition. Even "thinking for myself" would be a bias of mine. How do you know that thinking for yourself will not lead you astray and further removed from the truth? 

In comparing Islam to Buddhism.. Islam forces you to pray five times every single day even during sleep time... And if you miss a single prayer you gonna go to hell. There is of course no such thing as heaven and hell as in an eternal place of abiding after death. It can be understood metaphorically. 

 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I can't think for myself because I'm not awakened.

You got that backwards.

No religion will ever be equivalent to God-Consciousness. No religious person even understands what God is.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jodistrict]

2 hours ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I
True balance is recognizing that the west is way ahead currently, and is now catching up spiritualy.

 

Way ahead of what?

[Someone here]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You got that backwards.

No religion will ever be equivalent to God-Consciousness. No religious person even understands what God is.

Not just a religious person..You seem to claim that NOBODY at all understands what God is . This is an outrageous claim .you seem to claim to be the most awake person ever and you shit on Buddhism, Islam, advaita, nonduality and almost all spiritual teachings and teachers since the dawn of time.  You have yet to prove that you know better than all mankind. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Someone here

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura again with the venting... that toxicity is not healthy for anyone really. I think u could reflect on the point that there are many serious practicioners who consider your views on buddhism inacurrate and full of holes (almost everybody who's made any serious progress on the sober path imo). There's a lot of good benefit that can come by pondering on it. ?

Edited March 4, 2023 by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

You don't need a belief for becoming conscious of whatever's true. And they always get in the way. That's the gist of it.

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You don't need a belief for becoming conscious of whatever's true. And they always get in the way.

And how do you know that? Maybe belief is actually the only way to reach truth ..After all let me ask you this: do you know what anything Is ? Of course you will be bullshiting if you said you do .so why not just wager on faith ? 

Epistemically, what gives "direct  consciousness " more value than "belief "?

Please ponder this question carefully before you respond. Because I'm making a very subtle point. 

 

[UnbornTao]

@Someone here 

It's not about value. About, is not it. A belief is like a photo of an apple. Experience is like perceiving an apple.

By its nature, belief isn't the truth and can't ever be.

Edited March 8, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Someone here there's some confusion.

It's not about value. About, is not it. A belief is like a photo of an apple and experience, perceiving the apple itself. It is direct, you're there, so to speak. Direct consciousness isn't even a perception.

By its nature, belief isn't the truth and can't ever be.

Go ahead and try to avoid all belief and let's see how will your life work out. 

Every time you go with "gut feel," you are using a belief system.

Every time you select an option from an equally probable menu of choices, you are applying some other criteria according to a belief system.

An entirely rational and empirical life might be desirable to some, but it is utterly impossible.

All theories of science started by abstract perspectives, which scientists initially believed to be true. But when a theory is put into test in reality, the belief is verified, and turned into a fact.

If a belief system is beneficial, why would one reject it?

Edited March 4, 2023 by Someone here

[Sincerity]

@Someone here Dude, You are making so many unfounded claims and assumptions it's appalling. Just admit that You don't know.

[UnbornTao]

On 3/4/2023 at 2:56 PM, Someone here said:

Go ahead and try to avoid all belief and let's see how will your life work out. 

Every time you go with "gut feel," you are using a belief system.

Every time you select an option from an equally probable menu of choices, you are applying some other criteria according to a belief system.

An entirely rational and empirical life might be desirable to some, but it is utterly impossible.

Seems like we're bringing up and confusing a bunch of stuff. I'm gonna throw some crap around and see if it helps in some way.

It's possible to do away with many of one's beliefs, perhaps even all of them. Most of what we assume isn't cognized. You've got beliefs that you know are superficial or not really true. Go for the most obvious ones. Many are disempowering and not needed. Some are useful, none is true (the truth itself).

With beliefs out the way, openness and in turn effectiveness will likely increase in one's life since your perception won't be clouded with so many conceptual add-ons. This practice isn't about leading an empirical life per se, but about becoming free of beliefs, which includes recognizing them as such.

Don't know about the connection between gut feel and belief.

Quote

All theories of science started by abstract perspectives, which scientists initially believed to be true. But when a theory is put into test in reality, the belief is verified, and turned into a fact.

Don't know about that.

Belief isn't the appropriate word there. Hypothesis, perhaps. 

Quote

If a belief system is beneficial, why would one reject it?

I'd say that's good as long as you don't confuse it for a direct experience of the truth, which many people end up doing. Beliefs are used to cover up one's ignorance and lack of direct experience. Even when a direct experience is achieved, that doesn't guarantee your mind won't make up ideas about it.

What needs to be done is changing one's relationships towards beliefs. Notice they can be useful tools but are never true. A belief is about what's true.

I'd focus on contemplation instead of looking to adopt more beliefs.

Edited March 7, 2023 by UnbornTao

[ValiantSalvatore]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Way ahead of what?

Material prosperity for example and liberal societies without denigratation of immigrants and discrimination, disclosing foreigners etc. Racism and discrimination. Women's rights. 

Technologcally also, especially the U.S. All of this wealth for many gave rise to spiritual seeking.

Edited March 4, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Seems like we're bringing up and confusing a bunch of stuff. I'm gonna throw around some crap and see if it helps in some way.

It's possible to do away with many of one's beliefs, perhaps even all of them. Most of what we assume isn't cognized. You've got beliefs that you know are superficial or not really true. Go for the most obvious ones. Many are disempowering and not needed. Some are useful, none is true (the truth itself).

Without the superficial beliefs, openness and in turn effectiveness will likely increase in one's life since your perception won't be clouded with so many conceptual add-ons. This practice isn't about leading an empirical life per se, but about becoming free of beliefs, which includes recognizing them as such.

Don't know about the connection between gut feel and belief.

Don't know about that.

Belief doesn't seem to be the appropriate word there. Hypothesis, perhaps. 

I'd say that's good as long as you don't confuse it for a direct experience of the truth, which many people end up doing.

What needs to be done is changing one's relationships towards beliefs. Notice they can be useful tools but are never true. A belief is about what's true.

I'd focus on contemplation instead of looking to adopt more beliefs.

Now that is a profound and powerful answer. 

 yes, one can live without a belief system. But the reality is far from easy to accomplish. To do this can lead to enlightenment.

To be without a belief structure one must examine all their beliefs and be able to disassociate from them completely. This requires hyper-self-awareness on a moment to moment basis and the willingness to let go of every single belief and expectation. That includes beliefs about who and what you are and your place in the world. You must become a complete blank. I have actually created meditations and other practices for accomplishing this but it takes a great deal of commitment and work. But it can be done.

Can you for example stop believing that other people exist? 

 

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

@Someone here Dude, You are making so many unfounded claims and assumptions it's appalling. Just admit that You don't know.

Don't know what?!