Is Tate right about age 25+ women?

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Jacob Morres said:

Traditionalist women appreciate gender normed men with very certain and specific roles and characteristics. They don't support the full plethora of men

Progressives support men more in general. Though they also have resentment and hate towards men too for feeling/being discriminated/marginalized 

I’d say that’s a fair assessment of progressives

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

Traditionalist women appreciate gender normed men with very certain and specific roles and characteristics. They don't support the full plethora of men

Progressives support men more in general. Though they also have resentment and hate towards men too for feeling/being discriminated/marginalized 

True.

[Emerald]

Just now, Devin said:

I think this is what you're referring to

" men do not need "personality" from a woman in relationships, and most people do not mature much. Even just from simple logic, a 25 year old will obviously become a 35 year old, and potentially while being influenced by a developed man like the OP."

as I already explained to you, the conversation was about personality maturing from 25-30, men don't need "maturing of personality" that like women do from men. That does not mean a guy can take any crazy woman, that's obvious.

A man can take the average personality of women, above that it's relatively unimportant, unlike with women choosing men.

 

This isn’t true though.

If you’re not on the same wavelength as your partner, then this is going to create issues and incompatibilities.

For example, (to use Spiral Dynamics as a model) if a stage blue 35 year old starts dating a stage blue 25 year old… the 25 year old is probably going to progress quite a bit while the 35 year old won’t as much.

So, if the 25 year old develops to stage Orange or green, this will become a very difficult relationship where the 25 year old outgrows the 35 year old. And they will go seeking for a more compatible partner who is more on their wavelength.

Personality and consciousness level proximity is very important for maintaining a relationship with someone… romantic or platonic.

[zurew]

53 minutes ago, Devin said:

it was being suggested from 25 to 30 women develop personality, that development there is what I'm saying doesn't matter, let alone usually non-existent. Average personality is all that's needed.

 Your saying about "from 25-30 women don't develop personality" is false. OP's orginial implication was that he preferably want a really young girl, because then he won't need to work through her trauma. That could even mean a 18 year old girl. 

 People probably gain more variety exp in their 20s and maybe in their early 30s than anything that comes after that.  Most people from their early or middle 30s to their 70-80s don't experience that much new things and their life just on a complete repeat (the same exp over and over again).

People in their 20s don't know shit about themselves, most of them not even sure what they want to do with their life, most people in their 20s don't have more than 2 serious relationship behind their back (most of them only have 1 or 0 ) , people in their 20s changing their philosophy about life and about themselves a lot.

 

So the idea that a 20-25 year old women won't change that much  is a silly notion in my opinion.

 

 

@Devin You have to be very careful just reading study conclusions without actually taking a look at sample size or what they did take and what they didn't take into account.

1) For example conservative people tend to have much less relationships, therefore they have a much more narrow perspective on what a quality relationship looks like and what they even like or don't like. Lets go with a super conservative scenario where the girl don't even have a relationship before they get married to her guy, what do you think how much outlook that girl will have about the notion of "quality or high value man". She won't be able to compare her relationship / marriage to anything else and this problem alone can skew the numbers in the conservatives favour (because I have looked at your studies there isn't that much of a gap between the two)

2) Conservative people obviously have a different valuesystem where most highly conservative women will find a marriage a good relationship if the kid is being taken care of. In a conservative relationship the only big thing a man needs to hit is to provide resources and thats it, the conservative women don't have almost any big standards. Just that alone that conservative women have a much lower standard for a relationship could have a big effect on these numbers.

Those are just 2 things, but more could be mentioned. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by zurew

[Devin]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

This isn’t true though.

If you’re not on the same wavelength as your partner, then this is going to create issues and incompatibilities.

For example, (to use Spiral Dynamics as a model) if a stage blue 35 year old starts dating a stage blue 25 year old… the 25 year old is probably going to progress quite a bit while the 35 year old won’t as much.

So, if the 25 year old develops to stage Orange or green, this will become a very difficult relationship where the 25 year old outgrows the 35 year old. And they will go seeking for a more compatible partner who is more on their wavelength.

Personality and consciousness level proximity is very important for maintaining a relationship with someone… romantic or platonic.

I was speaking to the OP where the male is more developed, yeah your blue scenario is headed toward divorce.

but

a.) Most people don't develop, especially if married to a same stage partner.

b.) Those people don't read actualized thread type advice so I'm not sure why we would consider that much for this discussion.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Devin

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Devin said:

I was speaking to the OP where the male is more developed, yeah your blue scenario is headed toward divorce.

but

a.) Most people don't develop, especially if married to a same stage partner.

b.) Those people don't read actualized thread type advice so I'm not sure why we would consider that.

a. Very young people do develop quite a lot. 

 b. Development isn’t contingent upon people reading Actualized threads or knowing anything about Spiral Dynamics 

And regardless of gender, an incompatibility of perspective and development is going to create issues.

Traditionalist women won’t be interested in a very developed man. She won’t even be able to recognize his development as a good thing. She will be interested in men who are at the same phase as her who share their values.

The same is true for traditionalist men to developed women.

In terms of SD, Stages Green, Yellow, and Turquoise people look like degenerates and weirdos to Stage Blue people.

And Stage Blue people look limited and closed minded to the stages above them.

So personality development and perspective will absolutely matter to both men and women.

Men can’t just be with any random woman and have a happy relationship. I know this from being a life-coach and knowing plenty of men who feel like their wives and gfs can’t even see them.

[something_else]

23 minutes ago, Devin said:

https://news.virginia.edu/content/study-challenges-which-political-party-linked-happier-marriage

"Republican men and women are more likely than Democrats to say they are “very happy” in their marriages, according to a new report co-authored by University of Virginia sociologist W. Bradford Wilcox."

If you go to great lengths to present your marriage as perfect to your traditionalist community, you’re going to lie in a survey about it too. Hell, most of those married couples probably took the survey together so they are hardly going to answer truthfully.

Honestly same goes for all marriages. But the fact that traditional marriages value being seen as put together and stable to their community, even when they’re not, will have a particularly big influence here.

Traditionalist culture brainwashes you to ignore faults in your marriage and shove them to the back of your mind “for the community” 

[Devin]

35 minutes ago, zurew said:

 Your saying about "from 25-30 women don't develop personality" is false. OP's orginial implication was that he preferably want a really young girl, because then he won't need to work through her trauma. That could even mean a 18 year old girl. 

I don't think you're fully reading what I've said.

35 minutes ago, zurew said:

 OP's orginial implication was that he preferably want a really young girl, because then he won't need to work through her trauma. That could even mean a 18 year old girl. 

 People probably gain more variety exp in their 20s and maybe in their early 30s than anything that comes after that.  Most people from their early or middle 30s to their 70-80s don't experience that much new things and their life just on a complete repeat (the same exp over and over again).

People in their 20s don't know shit about themselves, most of them not even sure what they want to do with their life, most people in their 20s don't have more than 2 serious relationship behind their back (most of them only have 1 or 0 ) , people in their 20s changing their philosophy about life and about themselves a lot.

 

So the idea that a 20-25 year old women won't change that much  is a silly notion in my opinion.

I agree

 

35 minutes ago, zurew said:

 

@Devin You have to be very careful just reading study conclusions without actually taking a look at sample size or what they did take and what they didn't take into account.

1) For example conservative people tend to have much less relationships, therefore they have a much more narrow perspective on what a quality relationship looks like and what they even like or don't like. Lets go with a super conservative scenario where the girl don't even have a relationship before they get married to her guy, what do you think how much outlook that girl will have about the notion of "quality or high value man". She won't be able to compare her relationship / marriage to anything else and this problem alone can skew the numbers in the conservatives favour (because I have looked at your studies there isn't that much of a gap between the two)

2) Conservative people obviously have a different valuesystem where most highly conservative women will find a marriage a good relationship if the kid is being taken care of. In a conservative relationship the only big thing a man needs to hit is to provide resources and thats it, the conservative women don't have almost any big standards. Just that alone that conservative women have a much lower standard for a relationship could have a big effect on these numbers.

Those are just 2 things, but more could be mentioned. 

 

You did this sort of thing with the youth transitioning argument, there are a lot of variables there. Of course I don't base my life choices off a headline.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Devin

[Devin]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

a. Very young people do develop quite a lot. 

 b. Development isn’t contingent upon people reading Actualized threads or knowing anything about Spiral Dynamics 

And regardless of gender, an incompatibility of perspective and development is going to create issues.

Traditionalist women won’t be interested in a very developed man. She won’t even be able to recognize his development as a good thing. She will be interested in men who are at the same phase as her who share their values.

The same is true for traditionalist men to developed women.

In terms of SD, Stages Green, Yellow, and Turquoise people look like degenerates and weirdos to Stage Blue people.

And Stage Blue people look limited and closed minded to the stages above them.

So personality development and perspective will absolutely matter to both men and women.

Men can’t just be with any random woman and have a happy relationship. I know this from being a life-coach and knowing plenty of men who feel like their wives and gfs can’t even see them.

I don't mean that you're doing this intentionally but I don't see how these scenarios are relevant to this discussion. Green or orange men won't consider dating blue women, so there's no connection to this discussion, it's a moot point.

Integrated people are integrated, they get along with everyone.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Devin

[Devin]

Again, I didn't say personality doesn't matter at all, I didn't write the comment on a billboard I wrote it in response and in context of the discussion.

I'll rephrase it

A high development male does not need more than the average personality of an early twenties female for a partner.

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Devin said:

Of course I don't base my life choices off a headline.

Saying that sounds strange after you sourced multiple studies to sell a point, and  you actually made multiple arguments in favour of conservatives (when it comes to marriage) and by that making it sound like thats the preferable path for a person if he/she will want to get married down the road. You used those studies to strengthen your point further(because you thought that they are reliable) and now it seems that you don't care anymore or you want to abandon those studies.

10 minutes ago, Devin said:

You did this sort of thing with the youth transitioning argument, there are a lot of variables there.

If you agree with my conclusion then talking about other variables isn't relevant, it is only relevant if you disagree. If you actually disagree, then please elaborate.

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, Devin said:

(From Integral Relationships: A Manual for Men page 153 - 162)

This is some really bad life advice on here coming from narrow post-modern perspectives, men do not need "personality" from a woman in relationships, and most people do not mature much. Even just from simple logic, a 25 year old will obviously become a 35 year old, and potentially while being influenced by a developed man like the OP.

True, I love your posts.

 

5 hours ago, Stovo said:

Currently dating a 35 yo girl. Best girl I've ever dated. 

Personality wise girls get better over time as they become more mature and learn. 

The Tate stuff is for incels and men with little experience or understanding of women and relationships. 

I dated an older lady that was 36 yo and it was horrible. Rather have dated a dude. Toxic SD green women basically act like dudes while wanting to be treated like a princess. I mean, if that is your thing, you do you boo.

This topic only shows that a lot of guys think the only "healthy relationships" is SD green relationships which is hilarious. Just look at the current divorce rates which is a direct result of SD toxic green.

Every stage has unhealthy and healthy dynamics. This is what tier 1 people don't understand.

Also SD blue. From my POV, loyalty and love from blue is unmatched. I just want a girl to be sexy, submissive and feminine: and then breed me some. If I want connect on SD green stage I can do that outside of my marriage. I don't want SD green toxicity in my household. Obviously there is healthy SD green but nowadays it is hard to find healthy ones who aren't all dicked up.

Edited February 15, 2023 by StarStruck

[Stovo]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

This makes zero sense, so you were suggesting he should consider dating older, but now you're saying he's too immature to?????

I didn't suggest he should date older, but nice strawman. He wouldn't be capable of that. 

These views are indeed immature, there's no getting away from that. 

[Stovo]

@StarStruck The crux of this issue is you're putting toxic stage green types in the same bucket as well developed women. 

You do not need to date naive stage blue 20 year olds to avoid toxic women. There's nothing sustainable about this because she will one day grow older and leave you. 

You either want a real relationship or not.

I point you to your own advice. 

25 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Every stage has unhealthy and healthy dynamics. This is what tier 1 people don't understand.

 

[Leo Gura]

It's easy to be happy when you have no other options.

You don't yet appreciate how deep this goes.

If I made you my slave, and you removed any other alternative from your mind, you would find happiness.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Just look at the current divorce rates which is a direct result of SD toxic green.

?????, Boiling down a problem to one party and one variable --> "tier 2 analysis" at its finest again. Also implying as if staying in a marriage is always the better choice.

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Every stage has unhealthy and healthy dynamics. This is what tier 1 people don't understand.

Says the guy who only want to date stage blue women and excludes all possible stage green relationships because there are some toxic stage green women. 

Is this really stage yellow at its peak? Because thats really dissapointing.

 

Im gonna keep mocking you until you realise that using SD as a dick measuring tool or as a tool to be condescending towards others in not the right way.

Edited February 15, 2023 by zurew

[something_else]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

This topic only shows that a lot of guys think the only "healthy relationships" is SD green relationships which is hilarious. Just look at the current divorce rates which is a direct result of SD toxic green.

Divorce rates rising is a good thing. The majority of marriages have always been awful. Stage green (and orange) culture just give people the freedom to leave their marriages without being completely shunned by their communities.

Stage blue marriages can be absolutely horrifically bad, because both parties end up feeling trapped by cultural pressure to stay together.

[Kid A]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

Obviously there is healthy SD green but nowadays it is hard to find healthy ones who aren't all dicked up.

My impression is pretty opposite of yours. The most "green" girls I've gone out with have generally been the most attractive ones for my parts, and they were all feminine. Last summer I had a bad feeling before a date with a girl who turned out to be writing typical angry green blogs. Because of my past as an anti feminist and a huge Jordan Peterson fan, I assumed from old habit that she would be this kind of "feminazi". She turned out to be one of the sweetest girls I've ever met, who just wants the best for each and everyone. I both hope and think that was the final cure for years of anti-feminist propaganda that I've been exposed to. 

[Leo Gura]

@Kid A Lol. Of course

[StarStruck]

52 minutes ago, something_else said:

Divorce rates rising is a good thing. The majority of marriages have always been awful. Stage green (and orange) culture just give people the freedom to leave their marriages without being completely shunned by their communities.

Stage blue marriages can be absolutely horrifically bad, because both parties end up feeling trapped by cultural pressure to stay together.

Divorce rates is a good thing? Do you hear yourself? I don't get why one would marry to divorce. This sounds like SD green indoctrination. Why would anybody get married then? To get stripped of half of your assets and be fucked in the ass by SD green bureaucracy? Can't make this shit up.  The stats aren't lying.

 

1 hour ago, zurew said:

?????, Boiling down a problem to one party and one variable --> "tier 2 analysis" at its finest again. Also implying as if staying in a marriage is always the better choice.

Says the guy who only want to date stage blue women and excludes all possible stage green relationships because there are some toxic stage green women. 

Is this really stage yellow at its peak? Because thats really dissapointing.

 

Im gonna keep mocking you until you realise that using SD as a dick measuring tool or as a tool to be condescending towards others in not the right way.

You are just trolling + you don't know how to cope with your tier 1 frustrations of not getting it. I'm not looking at it from an ideological point of view. I'm just looking at how things are while you are just throwing temper tantrums and SD green hissy fits because you are not getting my points.

I would love a SD green girl who isn't all dicked up and consequentially has traumas and problems that I have to deal with. It is just that with this tinder climate where dick is a commodity and other toxic SD green influences it is hard to find such a girl. A girl has to have a strong character not to be influenced by SD toxic green that is reining right now.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's easy to be happy when you have no other options.

You don't yet appreciate how deep this goes.

If I made you my slave, and you removed any other alternative from your mind, you would find happiness.

No thanks.