Is Tate right about age 25+ women?

[something_else]

29 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@something_else I didn't say people weren't equals.

 

But is that not really just what submissive means?

30 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

For example in a commercial company everybody is equal but there is an undeniable power play.

 

They aren't really equal. They are paid differently specifically because there are not treated as equals. You are submissive to your boss and you're below them in the hierarchy, not equal. It works for companies because they must be cold and rational, but that's no way to run healthy personal relationships or friendships.

32 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Just because everybody is equal doesn't mean there is a power play and transference of value. Especially for females who are hypergamous

 

Transfer of value is not the same as submissive vs dominant. You can both provide value to the other without someone needing to be in charge.

33 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Personally I'm not looking to dominate people. I'm not in such a stage of my life for now.

 

But you also say you want a submissive girl. Is that not a desire for control and domination?

[Devin]

No one is saying they want a slave.

          Basic gender norms are being ignored here; men want their women to be happy and well cared for, women like to give their input on decisions but don't like making medium to large decisions in general. Men generally don't care about small things, women do and like making these choices. Healthy men cherish their woman and would never put their own needs in front of hers, but the man is still the one that leads, makes the decision or whatever.

          Many women are not brainwashed by post-modernists to believe different than this, they already want this dynamic and see the flow and harmony with it.

[StarStruck]

@something_else did you really say that you are submissive to your boss? In what kind of kinky office do you work?

 

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, Devin said:

No one is saying they want a slave.

          Basic gender norms are being ignored here; men want their women to be happy and well cared for, women like to give their input on decisions but don't like making medium to large decisions in general. Men generally don't care about small things, women do and like making these choices. Healthy men cherish their woman and would never put their own needs in front of hers, but the man is still the one that leads, makes the decision or whatever.

          Many women are not brainwashed by post-modernists to believe different than this, they already want this dynamic and see the flow and harmony with it.

 

 

There's so, so much generalisation here. Just because something has been a norm for a long time doesn't mean it's healthy either.

It's not even that women being submissive in a relationship is bad, it's possible for that to be healthy when it happens in stage blue cultures naturally.

The problem arises when you have guys in Western green/orange cultures who want to seek out 'submissive' women who are still in that blue stage of development. It's toxic because the reason they desire that is essentially overcompensation for insecurity.

2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@something_else did you really say that you are submissive to your boss? In what kind of kinky office do you work?

 

 

 

 

 

You realise that submissive has non-sexual meaning, right? The definition is "ready to conform to the authority or will of others" which is exactly the relationship between a boss and employee generally. You do what they tell you.

[Devin]

18 minutes ago, something_else said:

There's so, so much generalisation here. Just because something has been a norm for a long time doesn't mean it's healthy either.

It's not even that women being submissive in a relationship is bad, it's possible for that to be healthy when it happens in stage blue cultures naturally.

The problem arises when you have guys in Western green/orange cultures who want to seek out 'submissive' women who are still in that blue stage of development. It's toxic because the reason they desire that is essentially overcompensation for insecurity.

You realise that submissive has non-sexual meaning, right? The definition is "ready to conform to the authority or will of others" which is exactly the relationship between a boss and employee generally. You do what they tell you.

  A heavily green person won't be seeking this dynamic, that's the opposite of green. Heavily Orange would be inclined to become what most would see as at least mildly abusive or at least a one sided relationship, that's not being recommended here. No one is saying this is how all relationships should be.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Devin

[something_else]

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

No one is saying this is how all relationships should be, if they're both solidly green the man usually needs to be effeminate and submissive.

 

No! No one needs to be submissive in healthy relationships, lol. You should drop this idea that one person always needs to be in charge. Relationships should be as equal as you can make them.

The polarity of masculine/feminine is important, but framing it as dominant/submissive for anything other than sex is not healthy.

[Devin]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

No! No one needs to be submissive in healthy relationships, lol. You should drop this idea that one person always needs to be in charge. Relationships should be as equal as you can make them.

The polarity of masculine/feminine is important, but framing it as dominant/submissive for anything other than sex is not healthy.

Orange is equal, Yellow is equal, Blue and Green are not. In general.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Devin

[Devin]

18 minutes ago, something_else said:

No! No one needs to be submissive in healthy relationships, lol. You should drop this idea that one person always needs to be in charge. Relationships should be as equal as you can make them.

The polarity of masculine/feminine is important, but framing it as dominant/submissive for anything other than sex is not healthy.

The man being submissive doesn't necessarily mean the woman is dominant, would you not consider both partners in a green relationship to usually be submissive?

Edited February 28, 2023 by Devin

[StarStruck]

@something_else nobody says “I’m submissive to my boss”. Guess why. 

[something_else]

7 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@something_else nobody says “I’m submissive to my boss”. Guess why. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=submissive+employee&rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB977GB977&oq=submissive+employee&aqs=chrome..69i57.2241j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The word is not only sexual/kinky. It is used in other contexts to mean "ready to conform to the authority or will of others". You know this, because you use the word in a non-sexual context to mean exactly that yourself already, see below. You're just being obtuse and focusing on minutia to avoid the actual substance of the discussion.

Quote

Being submissive to your man doesn't just mean you bend over backward to him. It is about accepting your man as the leader of your life in the context of a relationship. A ship can't have two captains.

Being submissive versus dominating has to do with the power dynamic in the relationship.

This power dynamic changes as a man reaches his peak and a female leaves her peak, as Tate explains in that video.

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, Lila9 said:

What women mean when they say they prefer older men is that they prefer maturity in men and that can come at any age. Usually they refer to emotional maturity that many times comes with life experince (having life struggles, to suffer, to be a witness to complex situations or getting through them) but having life experince alone doesn't guarantee being a mature human being, it also requires some inner introspection and reflection which not everyone is blessed with. You can be a 20 years old man who is more emotionaly mature than a 50 years old man. 

Experience also makes for a better leader who can make better decisions regarding the future of the relationship.

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

What do you think the experience of being with a truly submissive woman is like in the context of a relationship?

As a man, I should have some authority to dictate the general direction in which we take our relationship. It doesn't mean that I am going to be completely dismissive of her and make her jump through hoops just for self amusement. 

5 hours ago, something_else said:

They are paid differently specifically because there are not treated as equals

They are paid differently based on the complexity, skill, supply and demand of the work they are doing.

In the same way men and women have different skill sets they bring into the relationship.

If the reason for paying people differently is because inequality, then inequality is the best thing to happen in the world. Because treating everyone equally is the best way to crash the economy. lmao 

Will you claim that you are oppressed and exploited because you are not getting paid as much software engineers for flipping burgers or some shit? 

Your notions of equality are quite silly and dangerous, not merely unhealthy.  

6 hours ago, something_else said:

Have you ever had a great friendship where neither of you were really 'captain' and both of you treated each other as equals? They are the best friendships.

False Equivalency.

Relationships are an order of magnitude more complex systems than friendships. Friendships are much more fluid and there is not a lot of intimacy or interdependence as that of sexual relationships. Which is why people are able to manage friends more than they do with relationships. 

6 hours ago, something_else said:

Then explain to me what you mean by mildly submissive?

The analogy of corporate and employee is perfect. The corporations want submissive employees. Both of them get their needs met. She should ride along for the majority of decision I take. And my decision making in accordance with making the best of our relationship.

And I am not saying this is the optimal way to run a relationship by any means. This is applicable to majority of the people in the world who come from less privileged backgrounds who has to worry a lot of things to get the relationships going. Obviously if you have plenty of money laying around and government take cares of your bills and college to some extent, then I too can appreciate this sort of hippy notions.

7 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Men who want a submissive women are directed towards either too young and powerless women, usually from poor backgrounds or women from 3rd world countries who will do everything to improve their lives and make survival easier for them. They want women who have no choice in the first place.

I am from a third world country.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[Nilsi]

Let's be real here: there is no good reason to date a woman over 20.

After that she's already carrying unnecessary cultural baggage and is past her prime physically - so unless she's super interesting or developed, there is really no point.

Obviously not a scalable worldview, but oh well.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Nilsi

[Nilsi]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:08 PM, something_else said:

The polarity of masculine/feminine is important, but framing it as dominant/submissive for anything other than sex is not healthy.

It is a primal urge for the male to be dominant and for the female to be submissive - unless both your hormones are seriously screwed up (which wouldn't be surprising these days) that's the most healthy and natural arrangement.

When you get a child or grow older your biochemistry will regulate itself and become more androgynous, so don't worry about it.

[zurew]

Nilsi is coming with another hot take.

If you only care about sex, then why would you limit It with a random age limit, when there are hot women in a much bigger age range + the older the women, the more sexual exp she will have , therefore the more she will know how to make sex fun.

[Nilsi]

10 minutes ago, zurew said:

Nilsi is coming with another hot take.

If you only care about sex, then why would you limit It with a random age limit, when there are hot women in a much bigger age range + the older the women, the more sexual exp she will have , therefore the more she will know how to make sex fun.

I can live with the idea that it's preference, but 18-20 is how I like mine and that's perfectly legal, so deal with it.

I don't want her to be experienced and I don't need her to make sex more fun - I'd rather have a sweet youthful girl that looks up to me and is still genuinely excited and curious about dating and sex.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Nilsi

[something_else]

19 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

It is a primal urge for the male to be dominant and for the female to be submissive - unless both your hormones are seriously screwed up (which wouldn't be surprising these days) that's the most healthy and natural arrangement.

When you get a child or grow older your biochemistry will regulate itself and become more androgynous, so don't worry about it.

 

 

 

If you want relationships that cannot extend past basic primal urges then by all means go and dominate 18 year old girls until they hit 20 and then dump them for the next 18 year old. Lots of guys have a phase somewhat like that. It's great fun, but it's not sustainable.

If you want a conscious, developed, and happy relationship at some point in your life you might find that strategy stops working because any women with a decent amount of self-respect and maturity who you might actually still enjoy being around after 2 or 3 years is not going to go for a setup where you are bossing her around all the time like Tate, or a 1950s husband.

You can have masculine/feminine polarity without anyone needing to be the boss.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by something_else

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, something_else said:

If you want relationships that cannot extend past basic primal urges then by all means go and dominate 18 year old girls until they hit 20 and then dump them for the next 18 year old. Lots of guys have a phase somewhat like that. It's great fun, but it's not sustainable.

If you want a conscious, developed, and happy relationship at some point in your life you might find that strategy stops working because any women with a decent amount of self-respect and maturity who you might actually still enjoy being around after 2 or 3 years is not going to go for a setup where you are bossing her around all the time like Tate, or a 1950s husband.

You can have masculine/feminine polarity without anyone needing to be the boss.

 

As far as age goes: obviously if you want something long-term, you will have to accept the fact that she's getting older lol.

As far as domination goes: you're just strawmanning me at this point - you can be generally dominant and assertive without being some oppressive chauvinist pig.

[Bobby_2021]

9 hours ago, Nilsi said:

far as domination goes: you're just strawmanning me at this point - you can be generally dominant and assertive without being some oppressive chauvinist pig.

It's so funny.

Me: "I like a submissive feminine girl."

People in this thread: "How dare you make women jump through hoops like a dog you disgusting misogynist patriarchal pig."

Nuance left the chat. 

[Leo Gura]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:44 AM, StarStruck said:

What you guys don’t get is that it is not shameful to be on the lower SD stages.  

It is not shameful, but also keep in mind that it does cause harm to others. Which is why they will shame you for it.

Just because a child is not developed does not mean people will be happy when he starts throwing shit on the walls, even though he doesn't know better.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[integral]

 

 

17 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Let's be real here: there is no good reason to date a woman over 20.

After that she's already carrying unnecessary cultural baggage and is past her prime physically - so unless she's super interesting or developed, there is really no point.

Obviously not a scalable worldview, but oh well.

There is a point, no one can function with out it. Constantly seeking and longing it. Dating is about getting your biological and psychological needs met. Most people are not sensitive to there needs so they turn relationships into something else. Just keep it simple.

From what ive read you guys enter relationships and sabotage them from the inside out with all your bullshit and then look externally for solutions or blame. "I need to go get me a younger girl" ?

Edited March 3, 2023 by integral