Explain to me like I am 5: How is coffee bad for you?

[RendHeaven]

7 hours ago, Nilsi said:

For what it's worth: Im on his diet for a month now and I feel absolutely fantastic. 

@Nilsi I've eaten ONLY salted ground beef, eggs, white rice, and a small sprinkle of fruit (+calcium supplementation) for roughly 5 months straight. Strict, no exceptions, no cheating.

I have personally accrued a slew of unbelievable, paradigm-shattering benefits in that time which I simply cannot chalk up to placebo or confounding factors. My new way of eating made me better, period.

It gets tricky when the discussion becomes about how other humans ought to eat. I am not so confident yet telling everyone to eat like me (and so for the most part I refrain) - but I will not stand by idly when others tell me that beef is "unhealthy"!

@Michael569 Thanks for the response brother you've given me a lot to work with, I'll get back to you in a bit! 

[undeather]

19 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Thats all good.

So, it is either a choice (short term advantage + long term detriment OR long term advantage + short term detriment) OR there is actually some kind of transcendent diet that optimizes across lifespan (which is probably what we should be looking for).

These long term detrimental genes have only survived, because these humans had their offspring before the point at which they became a liability.

I guess all roads lead to eugenics. CRISPR will allow us to clean up these "bad genes" and remove the downside from the "advantage now" diet (not to mention, that we can genetically optimize our food to our unique genetic makeup). How long before this will be available? I dont know.

Please dont forget that diet is just ONE part of the antagonistic pleiotropy playbook.
Complex systems are in general not bound by zero-sum games - therefore any kind of binary thinking is inappropriate.
You can definitely optimize for multiple domains through a variety of influences (supplementation, movement, psychospiritual exercises...)

However if you want to talk long term advantage through the domain of nutriton, its actually pretty simple: Keep your ApoB and glucose as low as possible for as long as possible. In general, ApoB is more important for atherogenesis. 

And yes, its actually pretty easy to genetically influence those genotypes: Just knock out the 2 genes at Y142X and C679X and you basically become immune to heart attacks and strokes.
 

Quote

It gets tricky when the discussion becomes about how other humans ought to eat. I am not so confident yet telling everyone to eat like me (and so for the most part I refrain) - but I will not stand by idly when others tell me that beef is "unhealthy"! 

I think it's important to say that when we say "unhealthy" it's usually in relation to another food.
A grass fed steak is healthier than a frozen pizza.
A quinoa salad with a variety of homegrown vegetables is healthier than a steak. 

I wont deny though that a lot of guys feel amazing on meat based diets. If it rocks the boat for you, then go for it - it might not be the healthiest for longevity issues, but you will be fine for a very long time. 

 

[vladorion]

I'm not on a carnivore diet because I find it hard to eat so much meat but you can't deny that people on a raw carnivore diet look incredibly healthy.

[UnbornTao]

44 minutes ago, vladorion said:

I'm not on a carnivore diet because I find it hard to eat so much meat but you can't deny that people on a raw carnivore diet look incredibly healthy.

Lwt's see in 20-30 years

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, vladorion said:

I'm not on a carnivore diet because I find it hard to eat so much meat but you can't deny that people on a raw carnivore diet look incredibly healthy.

Like Liver King?

$10k/mo in steroids.

These fitness gurus are such scammers.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Leo Gura

[Roy]

4 hours ago, vladorion said:

I'm not on a carnivore diet because I find it hard to eat so much meat but you can't deny that people on a raw carnivore diet look incredibly healthy.

Not only is it disgusting to eat that much meat, it's an insult to any ethical standards or sustainability. Think about the plethora of animals that have to die weekly just to keep a single stupid human alive.

How people get attracted and tricked into such insane eating habits is beyond me. You can think of any category of food ever and there is some mouth breather somewhere who is preaching it as gospel. There was some dude on here months ago claiming eating pure fruit is the way to go. lol sorry man but if I'm gonna be a firefighter carrying heavy shit constantly I need a bit better fuel than ****** oranges and pineapple.

From what I've seen what you eat doesn't really need to be hyper specific. As long as it's balanced and you are exercising and get your blood moving, your body will start to take a better shape. This isn't a pass to not care about what you consume, obviously. In the end though if you want a 6 pack you need to hit the gym, period.

Unless you get a 6 pack of beer of course 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Roy

[vladorion]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Like Liver King?

$10k/mo in steroids.

These fitness gurus are such scammers.

I've never watched him but just took a look. He looks kinda gross.  

Like Goatis.

Edited December 15, 2022 by vladorion

[vladorion]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Lwt's see in 20-30 years

Fair point. I haven't seen any people who've been on the for this long.

[RendHeaven]

16 hours ago, undeather said:

A quinoa salad with a variety of homegrown vegetables is healthier than a steak. 

No, this is exactly what I mean. I do not agree with this statement, in fact I stand in stark opposition to it

In my current view, organic 100% grass-fed cow flesh is THE HEALTHIEST food (AT LEAST for me), period.

Nothing comes close to it - certainly not grains or plants lol!

[Leo Gura]

My brain operates best on carnivore, but cholesotrol numbers get real bad.

Also, it's impossible to get fat on carnivore.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Leo Gura

[eos_nyxia]

On 12/12/2022 at 3:10 AM, Snader said:

Teachers, specifically spiritual teachers are biased in that way that they will guide you away from caffeine, because it's clearly not beneficial for your spiritual growth (IN GENERAL). Eventhough their advice is great, it's still up to you to use your own wisdom to make the best out of it. Caffeine isn't probably good for someone doing hours of hardcore spiritual practices every day, but that's not you is it?

No matter if you are ''spiritual'' or you are constantly developing yourself or just doing any productive work, you are still propably part of modern society and part of its mechanics, where caffeine plays its role. Therefore it might not be a big deal and it might support your growth at the moment.

Although, it indeed is stupid to let the quality of your day to be determined by some stupid bean, but we are stupid creatures doing stupid stuff 

FYI matcha was used for 1000+ years by Buddhist monks to enhance focus during meditation!

I've always been a caffeine-sensitive person; it's the only caffeinated beverage that I can consume in fairly strong concentration without it messing up my stomach and making me less focused than I would be naturally, without giving the jitters, etc. (Us East Asians tend to like our very tea strong compared to the rest of the world, IMO.)

To the original question: other than the caffeine sensitivity, I'm also pretty sensitive to the acidity in coffee. Cold brew is somewhat better for that reason only.

I like drinking the stuff, but more than that, I think I really just appreciate the ritual that is coffee. Otherwise, mentally and physically speaking, I don't feel like it adds that much to my life, personally. Even just getting in my one cup. As a person with a sensitive nervous system, who has always had a sensitive nervous system... if I am actually tired, let alone burnt out? Nervous system stimulation via coffee (but like, not in a focused way), upsetting my stomach and my nerves, and getting a crash later is literally the last thing that I need.

These days I find myself pounding my digestive spices to put into my chai the old-fashioned way with a mortar and pestle: personally I like star anise, cinnamon, green cardamom, black pepper, cloves. Microplaned fresh ginger. (No fennel, ew.) IDK... it just tastes better. Also, all of these spices have a "warming", energizing effect. Even if you make a drink with those spices without the caffeine, it still has that effect.

[Arthogaan]

Anecdotally coffee was BY FAR the hardest drug to quit for me. Alcohol, cigarettes, modafinil, sugar - all of them were much easier to quit.

The commom myth is that it takes one week for withdrawal to be gone. Well, for some maybe, but for me it took 3 months to even start having moments of energy during a day. And social pressure makes it the hardesy to quit also because the cult of being stimulated is everywhere. Your family, friends, coworkers - everyone uses it to get through the day to suck up the boring tasks.

It is so much i our culture that coffee shops place sign like "life starts after coffee".

Imagine such sign with any other drug.

[Nilsi]

4 hours ago, Roy said:

Not only is it disgusting to eat that much meat, it's an insult to any ethical standards or sustainability. Think about the plethora of animals that have to die weekly just to keep a single stupid human alive.

How people get attracted and tricked into such insane eating habits is beyond me. You can think of any category of food ever and there is some mouth breather somewhere who is preaching it as gospel. There was some dude on here months ago claiming eating pure fruit is the way to go. lol sorry man but if I'm gonna be a firefighter carrying heavy shit constantly I need a bit better fuel than ****** oranges and pineapple.

From what I've seen what you eat doesn't really need to be hyper specific. As long as it's balanced and you are exercising and get your blood moving, your body will start to take a better shape. This isn't a pass to not care about what you consume, obviously. In the end though if you want a 6 pack you need to hit the gym, period.

Unless you get a 6 pack of beer of course 

 

How about the ethical obligations you have toward yourself.

Saying that it doesn't really matter what one eats is just ignorant.

I've tried veganism and vegetarianism for years, trying to get it right, but I felt like shit compared to how I feel on this meat-based diet.

Also, what if keeping my mind sharp has actually a much bigger net positive impact on the ecology? Being vital and fully energized allows me to do higher quality work and to develop myself much more rapidly, which are all net positives.

So it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nilsi

[Roy]

47 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Also, what if keeping my mind sharp has actually a much bigger net positive impact on the ecology? Being vital and fully energized allows me to do higher quality work and to develop myself much more rapidly, which are all net positives.

These are just bullshit ego games and rationalizations. Which is ok by the way, since we are all in the same predicament boat. What is "net positive" for you (us) may not be so great for a lot of beings around us. Human activity (currently) at it's core is fundamentally corrosive to ecology and the natural systems around us. If this isn't obvious well, there is nothing I provide to meaningfully upgrade your awareness. You'll have to come to it on your own.

Unless your work is literally directly impactful on ecology and sustainability, or shifting the consciousness of others in a positive way, chances are you are less than neutral force, or draining on the ecology like most people.

Not placing blame either, this seems to be par the course per evolution.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Roy

[Nilsi]

23 minutes ago, Roy said:

These are just bullshit ego games and rationalizations. Which is ok by the way, since we are all in the same predicament boat. What is "net positive" for you (us) may not be so great for a lot of beings around us. Human activity (currently) at it's core is fundamentally corrosive to ecology and the natural systems around us. If this isn't obvious well, there is nothing I provide to meaningfully upgrade your awareness. You'll have to come to it on your own.

Unless your work is literally directly impactful on ecology and sustainability, or shifting the consciousness of others in a positive way, chances are you are less than neutral force, or draining on the ecology like most people.

Not placing blame either, this seems to be par the course per evolution.

Actually your moralization is the bullshit ego game.

I would prefer to be a vegan like a good lil boy, but I'm trying to have an actual positive impact on the world, which is why I need to look after myself.

If veganism works for you: fine. But you obviously haven't thought this through in any meaningful way.

I said it before, but veganism is the new christianity. You preach weakness and equality and try to drag everyone down to a petty sorry state of inaction and uninspiration, just to signal how virtuous and humble you are.

You might not realize that you're doing this, but it's a tale as old as time.

[Roy]

50 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Actually your moralization is the bullshit ego game.

I would prefer to be a vegan like a good lil boy, but I'm trying to have an actual positive impact on the world, which is why I need to look after myself.

If veganism works for you: fine. But you obviously haven't thought this through in any meaningful way.

I said it before, but veganism is the new christianity. You preach weakness and equality and try to drag everyone down to a petty sorry state of inaction and uninspiration, just to signal how virtuous and humble you are.

You might not realize that you're doing this, but it's a tale as old as time.

You don't even realize how tangled you are in your own web of projections and biases. I never mentioned or told you to do anything with veganism or vegetarianism in my post.

I am not even vegan or vegetarian myself, I eat meat.

[Nilsi]

Just now, Roy said:

You don't even realize how tangled you are in your own web of projections and biases. I never mentioned or told you to do anything with veganism or vegetarianism in my post.

I am not even vegan or vegetarian myself, I eat meat.

I was acting out, but the message still holds. Your moralization is fundamentally anti-life.

I suggest you check out Nietzsches "Genealogy of Morals" or "The Antichrist" - if you dare, that is.

[Roy]

35 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I was acting out, but the message still holds. Your moralization is fundamentally anti-life.

That's fine. The funny thing is, I was going to put that disclaimer in my first post to avoid this. I chose not to because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. But here we are.

You know it's telling with how quick you are acting to protect your own twisted worldview, that you would project and assign an attitude of "anti-life" to me for making a passing statement that maybe, just maybe spending $200 a week to eat 4 or 5 different animals for the sake of a diet is a bad, perhaps even dare I say, stupid idea. That isn't even a fundamentally controversial statement or moralization, just an obvious observation about reckless resource consumption.

The fact I said it (without it being addressed at anyone in particular), and you interjected to share your resentment of your bad experience with veganism and labelled me one without any sufficient reason says more about your moralization than it does about mine.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Roy

[Nilsi]

40 minutes ago, Roy said:

That's fine. The funny thing is, I was going to put that disclaimer in my first post to avoid this. I chose not to because I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. But here we are.

You know it's telling with how quick you are acting to protect your own twisted worldview, that you would project and assign an attitude of "anti-life" to me for making a passing statement that maybe, just maybe spending $200 a week to eat 4 or 5 different animals for the sake of a diet is a bad, perhaps even dare I say, stupid idea. That isn't even a fundamentally controversial statement or moralization, just an obvious observation about reckless resource consumption.

The fact I said it (without it being addressed at anyone in particular), and you interjected to share your resentment of your bad experience with veganism and labelled me one without any sufficient reason says more about your moralization than it does about mine.

 

 

 

I am of course dramatizing and stereotyping for the sake of the argument, but your comment is just one permutation of how this underlying slave morality manifests. So I'm happy to be an asshole and make it as salient as possible, so people can see it.

You call me resentful, yet you keep insisting how "stupid" a meat-based diet is. Meanwhile everybody in this thread being on this diet is reporting how beneficial it is for them.

Dare I say, you are possessed by the archetype of the slave? Your mind equates high animal product consumption with "immorality" and has to virtue signal, that you of course don't approve of such reckless behavior.

If you believe that the best thing you can do for the world is just being as little of a burden as possible, that's on you. But there are people with higher ambitions and if they believe they need heaps of meat to fuel and actualize those ambitions, I say: "Let them be! - Better yet: Embrace them! for they are the true saviors of the great Web of Life!"

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nilsi

[ZenAlex]

Caffeine is the main issue. If you enjoy coffee just go for decaf. If you need caffeine to get you through your day then your lifestyle likely sucks.,