Ukraine hits Poland, kills 2 civilians. WW3 confirmed?

[thisintegrated]

So Ukraine is killing Poles now, and trying to blame Russia in hopes of getting NATO involved in the war.

Should NATO join Russia in invading Ukraine?  That's what's legally supposed to happen now.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by thisintegrated

[aurum]

Stay cool. Information is still being reported on this. It’s not clear yet if this was a deliberate act of war against Poland. My guess would be that it wasn’t.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52

[Matt23]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Stay cool.

Yup.

Me-thinks, at least what I've learned from the likes of Daniel Schmachtengerger and co., is that information warfare and propaganda are ubiquitous.  

Cool the jets.  Remember... even years after we may not know the real story.  

Perhaps best to consider agendas; who's agenda does this story serve (most)?  Who's agenda does this action served (if true)?  And a plethora of other questions and possibilities.  

[Ulax]

Ah fuck.

Time to cut my thumbs off.

Sincerely tho, it doesn't seem a likely deliberate thing. But even accidents like this can escalate dangerously, imo.

[aurum]

13 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

Yup.

Me-thinks, at least what I've learned from the likes of Daniel Schmachtengerger and co., is that information warfare and propaganda are ubiquitous.  

Cool the jets.  Remember... even years after we may not know the real story.  

Perhaps best to consider agendas; who's agenda does this story serve (most)?  Who's agenda does this action served (if true)?  And a plethora of other questions and possibilities.  

My concern in this case is that the basic facts aren’t even fully known yet. This just happened. Give time for the media to report. We’ll have a better idea soon enough.

[Mohammad]

Nothing is gonna happen. In modern world everyone, even politicians (!) know the difference between deliberate act and accidents. Countries do not like suicide no more.

[Romanov]

Biden, NATO and Poland are now saying it was Ukraine who did it. 

[Chakra Lion]

Some people are so bored with their own reality that they are manifesting a world war for entertainment purposes.

[thisintegrated]

22 minutes ago, Chakra Lion said:

Some people are so bored with their own reality that they are manifesting a world war for entertainment purposes.

I might be a little guilty of that myself :")

[trenton]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:17 PM, thisintegrated said:

So Ukraine is killing Poles now, and trying to blame Russia in hopes of getting NATO involved in the war.

Should NATO join Russia in invading Ukraine?  That's what's legally supposed to happen now.

This constant fear of escalation distorts how we view war. It is not in the best interest of NATO to escalate the situation to world war 3 and they have been trying this whole time to avoid it. When people take this fearful stance it can create a self fulfilling prophecy of getting them before they get us. This fear is a big driving force in escalation.

The investigation has lowered the temperature. A Ukrainian air defense missile misfired in an attempt to intercept the biggest aerial assault on Ukrainian territory since the start of the war. Although Ukraine hit Poland, it was not an act of aggression.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/16/world/europe/ukraine-russia-poland-explosion.html

[Romanov]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:17 PM, thisintegrated said:

So Ukraine is killing Poles now, and trying to blame Russia in hopes of getting NATO involved in the war.

Should NATO join Russia in invading Ukraine?  That's what's legally supposed to happen now.

 

 

It was an accident and Poland wouldn’t be the victim of collateral damage if it wasn’t for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. 

[thisintegrated]

14 minutes ago, Romanov said:

It was an accident and Poland wouldn’t be the victim of collateral damage if it wasn’t for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. 

Zelenski was suspiciously well prepared for this.  Had a full speech and accusations ready to go.

[trenton]

41 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Zelenski was suspiciously well prepared for this.  Had a full speech and accusations ready to go.

What would  Ukraine have to gain through attacking other nations and blaming Russia? The global narrative is already on Ukraine's side. They are receiving a lot of aid from NATO. It has created a gap in the technology between Ukraine and Russia.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory. Conspiratorial thinking has this element of fear while speculating about hidden wrong doing. I am Skeptical of this kind of attitude.

The entire war has been full of both sides blaming each other.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Zelenski was suspiciously well prepared for this.  Had a full speech and accusations ready to go.

 

1 hour ago, trenton said:

What would  Ukraine have to gain through attacking other nations and blaming Russia? The global narrative is already on Ukraine's side. They are receiving a lot of aid from NATO. It has created a gap in the technology between Ukraine and Russia.

This sounds like a conspiracy theory. Conspiratorial thinking has this element of fear while speculating about hidden wrong doing. I am Skeptical of this kind of attitude.

The entire war has been full of both sides blaming each other.

If a country is under attack, it’s likely that they will jump at any excuse for people to come to their aid.

So I don’t see reasonable evidence for Ukraine to purposefully launch an attack against Poland. That does seem highly Machiavellian and conspiratorial.

But it also does not surprise me that Zelensky immediately blamed Russia. That is his bias. He is fighting a war against Russia. And if Russia did attack Poland, that could be good for his efforts and Ukraine as it would likely rally NATO.

Edited November 17, 2022 by aurum

[Romanov]

1 hour ago, thisintegrated said:

Zelenski was suspiciously well prepared for this.  Had a full speech and accusations ready to go.

Who wouldn’t? 

[Hatfort]

This can't spark WW3 because it was Ukraine who fired, not Russia.

Assuming it was an accident, which I do, Ukraine is at fault for this, one has to own his own mistakes. But of course, there is a case for blaming Russia in a bigger context as the initial war perpetrators.

[Danioover9000]

@thisintegrated

On 2022-11-16 at 1:17 AM, thisintegrated said:

So Ukraine is killing Poles now, and trying to blame Russia in hopes of getting NATO involved in the war.

Should NATO join Russia in invading Ukraine?  That's what's legally supposed to happen now.

 

 

   They should fine Ukraine for millions of Euros in damages to Poland afterwards. Even if Russia is to blame in the bigger picture, it was Ukrainian missile that fired onto Poland and not Russia's own. Both sides are deep in multiple layers of lying, and both should be held accountable for their actions.

   This is like Kyle Rittenhouse case all over. Is it self-defense, or did Kyle Rittenhouse have intent to murder and hurt the three left leaning protestors/ rioters/looters? Or is the entire policing system and BLM and how the media sensationalized George Floyd's death to blame far more?

[Danioover9000]

   It's also like the drama unfolding between Destiny and Mr. Girl. Is Mr. Girl to blame for his narcissistic and strange mind, accusing Destiny of being a sexual predator by grooming female online users, who already have or are likely to have their streams? Is Destiny to blame for also being narcissistic and manipulative due to him being a debater, a determinist and sociopath, and due to him having an open relationship/polyamorous relationship and having this tendency to farm drama and farm views? OR is the entire online dynamic and how online systems set to maximize drama to blame?

   One thing's for sure: Blaming is way bigger of a problem than we like to think at first, as most systems do have ways to maintain and sometime create more problems than solutions to encourage and support blaming the other than taking accountability.

[Yog]

9 hours ago, aurum said:

a lot of aid from NATO

More like a lot of debt.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Is Destiny to blame for also being narcissistic and manipulative due to him being a debater, a determinist and sociopath,

?