Aaron p

LGBTQ+ SJW's BLM - Left Extremists - Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh-Gender

49 posts in this topic

@Aaron p I agree with a lot of what you wrote in your post, Extremist left speakers will fire up the extremist right, making them both more extreme in turn. Honestly though, I think it'll all even out eventually. What you have to understand about stuff like feminism is that it HAS to be extreme temporarily to make up for the injustices. You can't swing a pendulum by tapping it a bit. You have to really push it. And that's what you're seeing going on here.

@Tyler Robinson If you find Aaron's post dogmatic or extremist, you're probably exposed to too much biased material yourself. This kind of balanced and introspective meditation is rare. It's usually just Right Good Left Bad / Left Good Right Bad.

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On ‎2022‎-‎09‎-‎11 at 11:01 AM, Aaron p said:

People like Jordon Peterson, ben and matt strike me as very intelligent debaters and users of logic and simplicity. What confuses me is that, while I recognize that the natural progression of societal evolution leans in favor of libertarianism, I see a lot of really weird libertarian shit, peterson has been identified by some of us as someone who "brings balance to the force" by being a lib who actually has his head screwed on, unlike the majority of lib civilians who have obese half naked "women" with pink mohawks and rainbow banners that say "allow children to get gender changes at any age". 

…I was also discussing with a friend more recently about how typically, in the past, when there is a shift in the progress of societal evolution, there tends to be an overswing before an eventual and inevitable re-stabilization but that the overarching movement is still that of progression, positivity and necessity. and so in this regard i can understand why certain lib features may be a little exotic for a while and re-stabilize eventually...but im interested in looking at more stage blue individuals, why is it that people like Jordan Peterson and even Mr. Shapiro have really good debating skills and use of logic when contrasted against that of libertarian's (maybe I'm just looking at the wrong lib people). I just get the feeling that a lot of liberal philosophy is kinda damaging. like with this whole gender thing, there is solid research to suggest that gender related mentall illess exists strong and true and is related to drug abuse and genetic mental health disorders as well as massively increased rates of suicide and self harm even in protected areas where there is little to no bullying or oppression directed at them...

i suppose a good example is this...while there are edge cases, the vast majority of trans people arent edge cases and suffer with mental health issues, and im willing to be corrected if im wrong but jordan peterson says that he believes that a man is a man if he has a cock and balls and woman is a woman if she has tits and a vagina and he also says that, while he wont necesarily go out of his way to offend or hurt someone intentionally, principally, if someone wants trys to make him use certain pronouns even if it violates his beliefs then he isint going to do it because its a breach of freedom of speech.

Another example is matt's documentary "what is a woman?" which depicts the philosophy that, using modern liberal logic, how can a male identify as a female if females are now not classified as someone who has any kind of feminine features at all...what are they identifying as. What is a woman if you dont need a vagina, tits, long hair, certain biological components...

And should liberals and extremeist social justice warriors have the right to have an abortion right up until 1 day before birth and then after birth, heavily encourage the child to consider getting a sex change?

 

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So, while i can see that libertarianism is obviously correct, what is happening with all this strange gender stuff and are figures like ben, matt and peterson wrong?

 

(I know that there is probably more nuance to these issues and possible different nuances on a case by case basis)...Are these 3 individualds wrong for their approach to transgenderism? 

Jordan Peterson is a Classic liberal,  texbook liberal. Things like freedom of speech, etc are important values and less goverment interferance ofc. Individualism is the key Word here. We make an error when we identify any person who speaks on the right to express oneself as a liberal, because socialism speaks on the individual expression as well. "The gender fanatics" are more often than not socialist/marxist. Gender Ideology is very broad and many ideological ideas are taken from marx and applied to gender insted of class in some aspects. 

Edit: Socialism critiqes liberalism of undermining the damage of capitalism and conservitives critiqe liberals for undermining the importants of Culture. Conservetives see liberals as to radical. 

 

Edited by Bad_anarchist

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@Aaron p Have you watched Leo's video 'Is gender a social construct?' This might help answer some of your questions. To address some; the 'mental illness' you are referring to is gender dysphoria, which by no means do all trans people experience. There's complete medical consensus on transitioning being the best treatment for it. That's really easy to find. Being trans alone is about as 'mentally ill' as a feminine man or masculine woman is. What Matt or Ben don't want you to know is that, for example, a trans woman knows she is a biological male. That's the whole point of being 'trans'; going from one thing to another. Gender is social. This effectively means people like Matt and Ben are merely upset about a biological male in a dress and fulfilling the social roles and identities of a biological woman. 

People's brains are breaking over the gender/sex distinction. It's not about thinking you are something that you are not. People have a very deep sense in "what a real man is". "Real men provide for their family" "real men are protectors" These roles and identities are associated but not limited to biology. A trans woman is a type of woman that is not a biological one. 

Most gender dysphoria is experienced around 7 years old. Puberty also greatly exaserbates the dysphoria. Children are very carefully vetted in assuring the feelings they experience are their own. Children don't have as much logical baggage and unlearning to do. Explaining trans existence is as simple as "born a boy but living a girl" etc. It's like the people who act like gay people are confusing to kids. Like uh, "they have two dad's/moms." Quite simple explanation.  Parents don't say "oh you might be a boy/girl". They'll say "I'll love you no matter who you are" and gender confusion would be something the kid is already experiencing and expressing. I don't think it's common for these conversations to be done irresponsiblely but sure it's possible. Keep in mind hormone blockers have been prescribed for hormonal imbalances since the 70s and are reversible. It's not legal for children to undergo irreversible treatments like bottom surgery.  

 

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@Leo Gura  if there was an attractive transgender woman in the club (male transitioned to female), if they've had their penis surgically replaced with a vagina and breasts enlarged, lengthened hair and a trained, higher pitch voice, smaller muscles, feminine body language and all "man hair" lasered off...would you have sex with them? 

Edited by Aaron p

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1 hour ago, Aaron p said:

@Leo Gura  if there was an attractive transgender woman in the club (male transitioned to female), if they've had their penis surgically replaced with a vagina and breasts enlarged, lengthened hair and a trained, higher pitch voice, smaller muscles, feminine body language and all "man hair" lasered off...would you have sex with them? 

Dude, I would not have sex with most women.

I have extremely high standards.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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we need a bill of rights for children

since too many parents are abusive bullying callous dictators

who think a child's opinion hasn't validity and weight

that barbaric era of parenting is from the dim and distance past and it is clear that

muzzling children only makes them more steadfast in their opinions

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2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

we need a bill of rights for children

since too many parents are abusive bullying callous dictators

From this post it's completely ambiguous whether you're for or against kids transitioning genders.
Here's my response if you're against it:

Did somebody tell you that parents can selfishly dictate that a kid must get sex reassignment surgery merely to appease the parents? More egregiously, did you actually believe whoever told this to you? Kids are subjected to extensive psychological screening to determine the necessity for sex reassignment. A parent can't just have their kid transition on a whim.

Here's my response if you're in favor of it:

*Peacefully ignores your post, as there is no asinine drivel that needs scolding*

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8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, I would not have sex with most women.

 

I have extremely high standards.

Mm, I think I need to have higher standards tbh. It's hard for guys to recognise their own value sometimes.

-----------------------------------------

Ok ok I have one last outrageous question: does it make sense to give a transitioning person hormonal treatment to alter their biology, if gender is a social construct and has nothing to do with biological makeup? :ph34r:

Edited by Aaron p

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3 hours ago, DrugsBunny said:

From this post it's completely ambiguous whether you're for or against kids transitioning genders.
Here's my response if you're against it:

Did somebody tell you that parents can selfishly dictate that a kid must get sex reassignment surgery merely to appease the parents? More egregiously, did you actually believe whoever told this to you? Kids are subjected to extensive psychological screening to determine the necessity for sex reassignment. A parent can't just have their kid transition on a whim.

Here's my response if you're in favor of it:

*Peacefully ignores your post, as there is no asinine drivel that needs scolding*

Ughh. You're very wrong. :P

We actually do need a bill of rights for kids to be able to access the candy store 24/7.

*parents holding their kid back not letting him eat Choco and instead feeding him carrots. 


♡✸♡.

 Be careful being too demanding in relationships. Relate to the person at the level they are at, not where you need them to be.

You have to get out of the kitchen where Tate's energy exists ~ Tyler Robinson 

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2 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Ok ok I have one last outrageous question: does it make sense to give a transitioning person hormonal treatment to alter their biology, if gender is a social construct and has nothing to do with biological makeup? :ph34r:

It's like plastic surgery. It can make some people feel better, but it can also be abused.

In general, trans people are pretty confused about themselves.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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7 hours ago, Aaron p said:

I have one last outrageous question: does it make sense to give a transitioning person hormonal treatment to alter their biology, if gender is a social construct and has nothing to do with biological makeup? :ph34r:

Things can be social constructs and still reliant on biological makeup (and I would argue that gender does, though there are some very radical people that argue its SOLELY based on identity — this seems to just completely annihilate the categories of man and woman)

For example, race is a social construct, and it is not completely devoid of a biological basis. Another example is “attractive people.” If a society deems high cheekbones, say, as attractive, this this provides some biological basis for the social construct.

In general, you shouldn’t take “socially constructed” to mean “arbitrary.”

Edited by Ves

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8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In general, trans people are pretty confused about themselves.

Do you think it would be a valid line of treatment to teach them to accept the body they got and live according to the sex they were born with? I would see myself doing that If I had gender dysphoria instead of going through the trouble of hormones, surgeries and stuff. But I also appreciate that not everybody is gonna prefer or even succeed in this line of treatment. 

 Or Even better, Awaken to the divine Gender :P

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20 hours ago, Aaron p said:

f they've had their penis surgically replaced with a vagina

Why would you do that? :( The penis is the whole point! 

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5 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Do you think it would be a valid line of treatment to teach them to accept the body they got and live according to the sex they were born with?

No.
 

5 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

I would see myself doing that If I had gender dysphoria instead of going through the trouble of hormones, surgeries and stuff.

You're only saying that because you don't have gender dysphoria.

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5 minutes ago, thepixelmonk said:

No.
 

You're only saying that because you don't have gender dysphoria.

I could use my imagination. I actually think it is doable but it will be an emotionally hard process.

It is like teaching someone to love their short ugly self. It is hard but it is doable. 

Edited by LSD-Rumi

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@Aaron p Are you aware that you are just repeating right-wing talking points? 

Stop consuming right-wing media. And stop pretending that any of those questions have significant impact on you or society at large.

Instead, try reading a book on politics. Try to understand patterns that have an actual significant impact on society and you, like the wealth gap, workers' rights, democracy, women's rights, etc. 

Don't get caught up in all that culture war bs, it's a distraction from the real issues. The right will try real hard to look for the most extreme examples of "cultural degeneracy" to distract you from the injustices you face. Consider the idea that some issues require a degree of empathy and complexity of thought that you do not yet possess.

Edited by Godhead

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@LSD-Rumi

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Do you think it would be a valid line of treatment to teach them to accept the body they got and live according to the sex they were born with? I would see myself doing that If I had gender dysphoria instead of going through the trouble of hormones, surgeries and stuff. But I also appreciate that not everybody is gonna prefer or even succeed in this line of treatment. 

 Or Even better, Awaken to the divine Gender :P

@LSD-RumiTrans-gender people are not trans just because they don't accept their body. Many do accept their body, but they are still trans-gender people.

If we, cis-gender people, don't accept our body, or parts of your body, we are still cis-gender. Those are two different issues.

 

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1 hour ago, Bojan V said:

Trans-gender people are not trans just because they don't accept their body

I think If you totally accept the body, you then don't suffer from gender dysphoria anymore. But this easier said than done. Again I am just speculating here. I am not saying that it is their fault for not accepting the body, tho it require a high level of intelligence to do so. 

Again, If I were an ugly person, It would be a very  smart and intelligent move to accept and love myself fully  instead of resisting the fact that I am ugly or trying to beautify my ugliness ( mind the harsh metaphor tho)

Edited by LSD-Rumi

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