PureExp

Is Liberation A Desire Of The Ego?

17 posts in this topic

Traditionally, the end-goal of human life is considered to be liberation. Where the word liberation essentially means end of suffering, unlimited freedom, unlimited choices, and eternal bliss. More specifically, it is end of the cycles of birth and death of "individuated consciousness" (Jeev). The latter means not much for me from an experiential point of view, but I can see how that can bring on eternal bliss. But I'm not very sure, not really convinced :D

It seems to me that ignorance and suffering, bondage etc are just phenomenal (illusory), and its the Ego (lower mind) that wants to avoid it. Isn't the consciousness already free? Any thoughts?


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Liberation for this ego (me) is the desire for an end to all suffering, or more precisely, an end to attachment  to all suffering.

Paradoxically, the easier our lives are (and the less suffering we experience), the less likely we are to "seek" liberation - until that painful time comes, when we are forced by default to detach from the good life, all at once.

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I look at it this way. The ego wants us to attach to everything for its benefit and our monkey mind gives in to our ego needs. But our mind seeks true freedom. Hence the clash between the two. We believe that our ego creates illusion and even suffering could be a part of the same illusion. But what if the liberation  that we crave for is a part of the same illusion ? How would we know ?


  1. Only ONE path is true. Rest is noise
  2. God is beauty, rest is Ugly 

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liberation is a desire of the ego from a relative point of view, we want enlightenment so we can be out of suffering, to be special, to have a better experience or whatever. from the egos point of view seeking enlightenment is no different than seeking a job or relationship we want it cos we think it will make us happy.

from the absolute point of view, there is no 'I' to seek liberation, this is just life playing out. you seeking is the shape experience takes, and if enlightenment happens you dont become enlightened, its just the shape experience takes. 

you ever have a lucid dream were you realise you are dreaming during the dream, does the character in the dream realise its a dream, no because the dream character doesnt really exist. only the dream exists, and becoming aware that its a dream is just the shape the dream is taking

 

Edited by bobbyward

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Liberation is a bi-product of enlightenment and a desire for the ego, yes. But my theory is that from its perspective, it believes that liberation means ending suffering for it and not taking the ego itself out of the whole equation so to say. It still wants to exist, but without the suffering of delusion. But therein lies the whole dilemma :D

An ego cannot exist without suffering as the two both are sides of the same coin. But in order to eliminate the ego, the ego needs to be convinced that there are certain benefits to eliminating it. That is why convincing the ego of the importance of enlightenment is so important for it to even begin the journey. The ego does not engage in activities that from its limited perspective does not benefit it. That is why you will not move to a cave in India unless you believe it has some profound meaning, right? Otherwise, what would be the point from the ego's perspective?

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Great replies !

Then there is a related question - will the individuality remain after the liberation?

Where by individuality I mean a very fine and mild sense of separation - like oh yes, there was this thing called ego "here", and now there is none, but there is me still watching it all, not taking births anymore, no desires left.

I know its getting theoretical, but just wondering. If liberation is total dissolution into the infinite source, then these things mean nothing, there is no one there who got liberated.


My Blog : : Pure Experiences : : Pure Knowledge

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@PureExp  All desire is ego, at-least in my definition.

As for the liberation part, that what remains doesn't ask those questions.
The ego remains but in a scene becomes totally optional.

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No.  Liberation is transcending the ego through awareness.  There is no you avoiding anything.  That's an illusion.  Ego exists inside awareness and it's only by increasing awareness that one can see the ego for the illusion that it is, and then our subconscious mind is forced to re-wire itself.

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Depends on where that motive is coming from. 

Some might want to become a sage and totally liberated from a place of a status and need to achieve and what not.

Some might pursue it because they’re so stuck in victim thinking that they think that this spiritual thing will be their way to finally “escape”.

Some really are willing to geninuinely and authentically surrender (VERY rare) in order to attain liberation. 

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Thought wants and needs security but everything it does prevents it. Thought wants to be liberated, but every move it makes enslaves. Freedom is not a reaction, it is a necessity, but thought doesnt comprehend its own limit so it works within the bounds of measure. This is the problem. Thought wants freedom but is also threatened by it. Does desire lead to freedom?, no, but does understanding what limits/prevents freedom? Hell yes. 

Edited by Jack River

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Curiosity killed the cat.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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25 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Depends on where that motive is coming from. 

Some might want to become a sage and totally liberated from a place of a status and need to achieve and what not.

Some might pursue it because they’re so stuck in victim thinking that they think that this spiritual thing will be their way to finally “escape”.

Some really are willing to geninuinely and authentically surrender (VERY rare) in order to attain liberation. 

The motive is always coming from the situation thought thinks it is in.

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No.  It’s a desire for Awareness to discover what it is.  It’s the extraction of Awareness from being entangled within illusory Maya.

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21 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No.  It’s a desire for Awareness to discover what it is.  It’s the extraction of Awareness from being entangled within illusory Maya.

Unless I am mistaken, I was addressing the situation that KP thinks he is in.

I was trying to say something more fitted to 'the situation of KP' rather than some absolutist jargon.

Awareness already knows what it is. It is thought that can hide this.

 

Edited by dorg

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3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No.  It’s a desire for Awareness to discover what it is.  It’s the extraction of Awareness from being entangled within illusory Maya.

@PureExp Its this and, ego realising it doesnt exist and it must end.

Its both

Edited by Saumaya

There's Only One Truth!

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