Leo’s take

[hoodrow trillson]

10 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Natural selection is a thing of a beauty, isn't it??

I would say yes except it affects us all  We still want them to participate in society and live long healthy lives.  But this is just stupid.

 

53 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

It's almost akin to a hypothetical scenario where threads about addressing Climate Change are being consistently derailed by a handful of people declaiming that Climate Change is a hoax perpetuated by the liberal media.

It's a perspective that's not contributing anything of value, and only serves to drag the quality of discussions around the topic downward.

Like Leo's recently closed Omicron thread?  It started off normal and informative in the 1st page, people were discussing the boosters, vaccines and how it could be handled to mitigate spread.  And then the deranged brainworms crowd got in and just fucked it all up.  I was actually looking forward to discuss the topic at hand!

 

[Lyubov]

People are just tired of this. Either take the vaccine or don’t but shut the f up. We are in war times so to speak, but it isn’t between countries but a virus. Wishy washy democratic measures for all sorts of various takes on an issue are not prioritized during war time. You don’t have time to discuss this stuff and unite the conflicting parts when a unified enemy is at your gates. I hope they start forcing this more on people who are healthy to take it. 

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, BlackPhil said:

Feels like Leo is abit stuck in an echo-chamber when it comes to politics tbh, just like so many others nowdays with all the polarization going on. Associating every criticism of the vaccines with the opposite political faction. I don't really see any other gurus or yogis pushing these vaccines on people, quite the opposite.

Anyways Leo has alot of valuable wisdom when it comes to certain spiritual topics, but this doesn't make him an expert on everything ofc. I would advice you all to not follow him blindly on this issue even if you learned alot from him when it comes to other topics. 

It's his forums so guess the vaccine debate won't happen here, fine by me.

Because most gurus and yogis are uneducated, ignorant people who have just spent all their time meditating and not contemplating from a larger more embodied perspective about material issues facing society. Scientists and the educated are for that, not yogis. 

[Danioover9000]

@Lyubov

7 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Because most gurus and yogis are uneducated, ignorant people who have just spent all their time meditating and not contemplating from a larger more embodied perspective about material issues facing society. Scientists and the educated are for that, not yogis. 

   Ok, no need to get hostile towards uneducated Gurus. Most of them are not that privileged and have access to the same education as somebody else who has that and more. 

[Danioover9000]

@Lyubov

12 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

People are just tired of this. Either take the vaccine or don’t but shut the f up. We are in war times so to speak, but it isn’t between countries but a virus. Wishy washy democratic measures for all sorts of various takes on an issue are not prioritized during war time. You don’t have time to discuss this stuff and unite the conflicting parts when a unified enemy is at your gates. I hope they start forcing this more on people who are healthy to take it. 

   I get this is tiring, which is mostly coming from users who spin this into anti vax and conspiracy fear mongering, but the vaccines do have side effects, a few people do actualize them, so to me it's worth having a discussion about them openly to a certain degree on it's effects and how to manage them. It's just that topics like this get derailed for the most part, so instead for a valuable discussion, we end up getting derailed to nothing.

   Keep in mind, for the very few who are effected, the effect can alter their lives to sometimes negative extent.

[w4read]

10 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

People are just tired of this. Either take the vaccine or don’t but shut the f up. We are in war times so to speak, but it isn’t between countries but a virus. Wishy washy democratic measures for all sorts of various takes on an issue are not prioritized during war time. You don’t have time to discuss this stuff and unite the conflicting parts when a unified enemy is at your gates. I hope they start forcing this more on people who are healthy to take it.

Well that's the whole issue. People view this totally different. Some people view this as a serious crisis where the entire health care system is going to collapse within weeks. For these people it obviously makes sense to enforce lock downs and reduce contact as much as possible. 

Others however, look at the situation from South Africa and translate that into what is gonna happen in other parts of the world. And they are of the impression that this will be a regular innocent flue that passes within a month or two.

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@SgtPepper

2 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

This is already the case with many vaccines. I couldn't enroll into a US' public university without demonstrating I have received necessary vaccines even before covid came around.

So yes, the government does have the ability to do so. and yes I do agree with communities adopting such protocol to protect their families. 

   Was this because of your career choice as a nurse, or they do a general check if you're vaccinated?

   

[Danioover9000]

   What are the alternatives for the few negatively effected by the vaccine? That's the main issue that needs clarifying, not anti vax ideology and virus conspiracy theories. What do you do if you're negatively effected in your direct experience??

[w4read]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

What are the alternatives for the few negatively effected by the vaccine? That's the main issue that needs clarifying, not anti vax ideology and virus conspiracy theories. What do you do if you're negatively effected in your direct experience??

You visit a doctor.

[BlackPhil]

48 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Because most gurus and yogis are uneducated, ignorant people who have just spent all their time meditating and not contemplating from a larger more embodied perspective about material issues facing society. Scientists and the educated are for that, not yogis. 

Neither is Leo when it comes to mRNA-technology, virology, medicine or vaccines in general. So that's not really a good point.

Many gurus and yogis are negative to the vaccine because they understand how complicated the human body is, both physical and energetic, and therefor knows that injecting a new, untested gene-therapy technology could very likely disrupt this balance. This is, like we all should know by now, not a classic vaccine but a relatively new technology.

Yogis, osteopath etc have a much deeper knowledge about the energy bodies than normal doctors. Material science and medicine are clueless about so much stuff since they operate from the old paradigm.

You're saying we are in a war/crisis when it comes to the virus. But is that really true if you go outside and turn off the news? I live in a country which haven't locked down during the whole pandemic and I just cant see it being as bad as they write in the media. Here in Europe more and more people are seeing through this now, from both political factions. 

[BlackPhil]

34 minutes ago, w4read said:

You visit a doctor.

Alot of doctors have orders to tone down side effects as much as possible and blame it on other stuff.

 

Here is an example of a guy who got bad side effects but didnt get taken seriously by the doctors. Probably because of the political and social stigma. 

 

Edit: Anyways, not gonna debate that more here but I have to say it can be very harmful to just shut down all discussions about the negatives regarding the vaccine and vaccine mandate. Sure I can understand people get tired of all the conspiracy theories and real "anti-vaxx" stuff but not being able to discuss the potential side-effects etc doesn't seem healthy.

Edited December 23, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Consept]

The fact that anti-vaxxers keep going on about it is interesting in of itself, why is it you have to convince others on your position? If you really don't want take it then don't. There are consequences for not taking a malaria vaccine if you go to certain countries, so it is what it is, unless you want to protest that too. 

The pov of the anti-vaxxer, esp on this forum, seems to be that everyone is just stuck in their echo chamber and they don't get the truth that you somehow hold. This forum specifically engages in critical thinking, as well there are many scientists and medical professionals on here. Did you ever consider that your information was considered and then decided that whatever risks you bring up are for outweighed by the net benefits? Either way a decision has been made by the person so realistically you're not going to convince someone, unless you can prove all the experts wrong and show how the vaccine is worse than covid. 

 

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, BlackPhil said:

Feels like Leo is abit stuck in an echo-chamber when it comes to politics tbh, just like so many others nowdays with all the polarization going on. Associating every criticism of the vaccines with the opposite political faction. I don't really see any other gurus or yogis pushing these vaccines on people, quite the opposite.

Anyways Leo has alot of valuable wisdom when it comes to certain spiritual topics, but this doesn't make him an expert on everything ofc. I would advice you all to not follow him blindly on this issue even if you learned alot from him when it comes to other topics. 

It's his forums so guess the vaccine debate won't happen here, fine by me.

For what it’s worth, the Dalai Lama has received the vaccine and I believe Sadhguru has said people should take it. 

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Neither is Leo when it comes to mRNA-technology, virology, medicine or vaccines in general.

Now we have another non-mRNA vaccine "Novavax" made especially for you

[BlackPhil]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Now we have another non-mRNA vaccine "Novavax" made especially for you

Yes I read about it. If it indeed works like a classic vaccine I'm open to taking it, sure.

Edited December 23, 2021 by BlackPhil

[BlackPhil]

 

Here is an interview with an mRNA- scientist for those who are interested. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

2 hours ago, Consept said:

The fact that anti-vaxxers keep going on about it is interesting in of itself, why is it you have to convince others on your position? If you really don't want take it then don't. There are consequences for not taking a malaria vaccine if you go to certain countries, so it is what it is, unless you want to protest that too. 

The pov of the anti-vaxxer, esp on this forum, seems to be that everyone is just stuck in their echo chamber and they don't get the truth that you somehow hold. This forum specifically engages in critical thinking, as well there are many scientists and medical professionals on here. Did you ever consider that your information was considered and then decided that whatever risks you bring up are for outweighed by the net benefits? Either way a decision has been made by the person so realistically you're not going to convince someone, unless you can prove all the experts wrong and show how the vaccine is worse than covid. 

 

   I can agree, that on pure anecdotes and being dogmatic, just talking dogmatically like conspiracy theorists isn't helpful and just parroting talking points without the experience is being a blind sheep which can cloud the issue of which member is just believing versus which is genuinely experiencing  a problem.

   While the main issue is psychological identity and attachment to the narrative and fear mongering and misinformation, the person/group's cognitive, moral, ego development, personality typing, and these exist at the level of collective, I'm more concerned with this key issue of life experiences at the individual level. Especially when, an individual has directly experienced a side effect of such a treatment with little warning beforehand that effect half or more of that person's life. The main problem in that situation is what does that individual do then? You can't just give a blanket advice of go see your doctor, because chances are that most traditional doctors are in the middle of a psychological, social, political, economical and cultural warfare of misinformation, specifically coming from anti vax, alternative medicine paths and other related ideologies that are not just anti vax but anti traditional western medicine. In that ecological context, the individual's problems relating to the vaccine will likely get swept aside in facor of searching for other factors to narrow down, zoom in on and reduce to as the cause instead of the particular vaccine reaction. It could lead to a waste of time.

   I wasn't warned about the potential side effect of the mRNA spike protein in the Pfizer vaccine, and now I have to deal with heart arrhythmia, which consequently led to me reducing my overall physical output in other parts of my life at the moment. This also consequently led to my emotonal fitness being lowered, being more depressed. This is real and directly experienced by me, and it is not just mental narratives in my head. I hope this problem gets resolved soon and I get some compensation one way or another, cuz now I'm dealing with that and exploring other potential factors as well.

   Again, I'm speaking not just for me, but for the very very few who have experienced those side effects. I'm not speaking for or support anti vax related  ideologies, and hope that some of you see past this ideological warfare and just help the individuals who have those problems with the side effects. I have received some help from some users here already for my ongoing healing of my problem, so do so for someone who asks help for what to do insteadof shutting them down. This part I'm speaking broadly to those reading.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Arcangelo]

5 hours ago, Lyubov said:

I hope they start forcing this more on people who are healthy to take it.

u gotta be effing kidding me.

[Pavement]

I have a question which maybe someone can help me understand.  
if there are so many cases and all of these people are getting Covid, then doesn’t that mean all of these people now have antibodies to the virus?  I never see this mentioned, only emphasis on getting vaccinated but nothing ever talked about all the 100s of 1000s of people who have recovered… ? 
U.K. for example has many cases, so why aren’t we nearing herd immunity?  
Recovered people + vaccinated people should make up a bigger percentage that those who are unvaccinated. 
What am I missing ? 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Pavement

[Danioover9000]

@Pavement

9 hours ago, Pavement said:

I have a question which maybe someone can help me understand.  
if there are so many cases and all of these people are getting Covid, then doesn’t that mean all of these people now have antibodies to the virus?  I never see this mentioned, only emphasis on getting vaccinated but nothing ever talked about all the 100s of 1000s of people who have recovered… ? 
U.K. for example has many cases, so why aren’t we nearing herd immunity?  
Recovered people + vaccinated people should make up a bigger percentage that those who are unvaccinated. 
What am I missing ? 

   I don't know what's missing, but we should definitely have anti bodies at this point, of course for those who have survived the covid virus. I don't know whether the virus has evolved a way around due to the spiked proteins it has. it surely is an abnormal virus.