How deeply can You awaken?

[Salvijus]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can train a body/mind not to react to pain. But that doesn't mean consciousness has reached INFINITY or anything close to it.

Forget about pain. What you want is INFINITY and God-consciousness. I promise you won't be dissappointed with God-consciousness 

INFINITY is what you are. That's your true identity. Of course!

Sorry, i didn't see you edited that.

But you see, I'm not interested in training my body to handle pain either. My claim is that total disidentification is only possible when awareness hits the peak and realization happens that nothing in the universe can touch you. Awareness hits the peak and realize I'm nothing and suffering stops. And of course nothing is infinity also.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Salvijus

[Consilience]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Forget about pain. What you want is INFINITY and God-consciousness. I promise you won't be dissappointed with God-consciousness 

That’s the thing, fear of pain is one of the crucial dualities preventing infinity from breaking through while being sober. If you look at higher jhanas (jhana of infinite consciousness for example), it requires absurdly high levels of equanimity. 

[Terell Kirby]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of realizing it.

Wouldn’t this notion create duality though? Yea psychedelics can get you a variation of infinity but it’s still all infinity. From a God view, an experience on 5meo is no different from an experience on anything else. The content of existence may be different but context of existence is God’s imagination…all the time.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Fearless_Bum]

Leo doesn't want to give the true teaching as it's too powerful, but the truth is you gotta go full bald if you wanna transcend. 

? = ? 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Okey, but can I question this?

Sure

Quote

For example, what causes identitfication with the body-mind-psyche? Isn't it that lack of awareness is causing this identification with something that I am not?

No! The Truth is that you actually are everything, including the body-mind-psyche. Technically speaking the problem isn't one of identification, it's a problem of partial identification. The problem is you identify with that body/mind but not Leo's body/mind and not a kangaroo's body/mind. The problem is you're cherrypicking.

Your true identity INFINITY, which means you are every body/mind/object that is held in consciousness.

Think of a TV. The TV is every image it depicts. The problem occurs when the TV starts to identify with only certain characters on the screen, while not others.

It is actually not correct to say that the TV is none of the characters because it literally is all the characters.

Quote

And isn't it true that if I become fully concious, I will gain the power to see that the identity is not me.

No! You will see that every partial identity is you! Like how the TV can see that every character is the TV.

Quote

When awareness is full on a distance arises between mind-ego and awareness.

Actually it's more like the opposite. The ego-mind becomes a child of God.

There is zero distance between God and its children. God IS its children.

There cannot be any distance between God and its creation. GOD IS CREATION!

CREATION = GOD

Quote

This is what I call disidentification. A clear distance between mind and awareness. So much so that one becomes totally aware that everything passes except awareness and this gives him total disidentification from everything.

This is precisely the problem and trap of Buddhism. It's like elevating the dark half of the yin-yang over the meta-Unity of the entire yin-yang.

The goal is not a negative one but a positive one: total identification.

Your identity is INFINITY.

Unity is a meta feature that includes both white and black. It's not just white, and it's certainly not just black. But notice that this meta-Unity is an identity, not a disidentity.

Reality is an Absolute Positive. It is not a neutral mid-point between positive and negative. This is a common trap.

God is Absolute Goodness. Negativity never existed!

God is Absolute Unity. God is ONENESS.

ONE!

ONE cannot have disidentity as that creates two. So by trying to disidentify you actually create division and evil!

20 minutes ago, Dulinho said:

I do not understand why we--God--are playing this trick on ourselves where we don´t know that we are God/One?

There is no we. There is only you.

Because if you weren't playing this trick, how could anything exist? Things only exists when God imagines them.

The problem is that you take the existence of things for granted. You assume things can just exist. Well, consider the possibility that nothing can exist unless you imagine it. But if you are conscious that you imagined it, then you cannot relate to it as "real". It's just imaginary. So literally the only way God can create "reality" is by imagining that it is not imagining reality.

Ta-daaaa!

Everything here boils down the problem of How could reality be created at all? By all rights nothing should exist. To make something appear requires a feat of trickery of the highest genius. Reality is literally a magic trick you're playing on yourself. Without this trick there would be nothing. But if there exists nothing, nothing prevents the trick from being played on nobody

[Regan]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no such thing as a sober or natural state. These are childish and dualistic ideas. There are an infinite number of different states of consciousness. No one state is "true" or "orginal" or "the default".

You know I'm clearly referring to any sober state free of chemicals (like 5-MeO), I'm not saying there's just one sober state of Consciousness.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The sober state is relatively very low and always will be because you could not survive in a high state.

My point is, how do you know the potential of a sober state when you still have egoic attachments?

I'm obviously not 'Enlightened' and also still have lots of egoic attachments, but throughout history, there is a consistent and recurring theme amongst spiritual practitioners that once the ego is 'destroyed' and (not just conceptually) understood to be illusory, then as a result, one's baseline state of consciousness no longer derives from the ego and instead becomes a state of Being. This is obviously the point to which the Buddha was referring to as simply 'the end of suffering'.

So despite your many 5-MeO (etc) Awakenings, if you haven't reached Enlightenment / detached from the ego to the point where your natural state of Consciousness is completely unidentified with a separate self and instead resides in a state of Being, then how do you know the potential of any sober state of Consciousness? To say you know would be to say you've reached Enlightenment, which I know you've already stated that you haven't yet.

Also, despite how ridiculously insane these 5-MeO states obviously are, if you still have egoic attachments then they're still being reflected upon by the ego once the Awakening comes to an end. This isn't to deny these realizations but rather to highlight that these same degrees of 5-MeO experiences would be reflected upon differently by an Enlightened person experiencing them, which in turn could deepen their sober state of Being further. I'd argue that the baseline state of Consciousness of an Enlightened person who, after their Enlightenment, went on to take 5-MeO 100+ times, would be more revealing of the potential of the 'sober state'. And that's without considering the potential of the 'sober state' of an Enlightened person with abnormal genetics whilst practising meditation/yoga/self-enquiry after 100+ 5-MeO Awakenings.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Regan
phrasing

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura why total identification with everything is > than total disidentification from everything? I think they are both equally valid truths. 

also wouldn't you say that total disidentification from everything requires a total peak of awareness? I'm sorry if you answered this already. I didn't get it ? if no. Why not.

[VeganAwake]

27 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

One is dissmising existence totally another is accepting and loving existence totally. Two sides of the same coin. Yin and yang.

Exactly and the two sides are an illusion. ❤ 

Dismissing loving and accepting aren't something separate.... they just seem to be.

Unconditional love for exactly the way things seem to appear...... is freedom heaven on Earth enlightenment

❤ 

 

 

[Salvijus]

@Leo Gura to have no identity or to make your identity everything. Isn't it two sides of the same coin? Total disidentification means zero, total identification with everything means infinity. Zero = infinity. Both are equally valid in my opinion. What do you think?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Salvijus

[VeganAwake]

There's just everything and no one is being it or identified as it.

There isn't a you that's also everything........ there's just everything

❤ 

[mandyjw]

 

[WelcometoReality]

It seems to me like psychedelics are a great way to get a peak experience to see how deep things can go but how good are psychedelics for embodiment? Seems like raising your baseline level of consciousness is key and continual practice is better for that.

[Salvijus]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

ONE cannot have disidentity as that creates two. So by trying to disidentify you actually create division and evil!

I would question this. I think total no-identity state is possible without creating a duality. To be without identity doesn't imply duality. It implies oneness also imo.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Regan said:

@Leo Gura

You know I'm clearly referring to any sober state free of chemicals (like 5-MeO), I'm not saying there's just one sober state of Consciousness.

I know, but this naive notion is exactly what must be squashed.

Right now you are not "free of chemicals". You have chemicals mediating your consciousness every second of your life. And taking this for granted is a giant mistake because people have very different chemicals mediating their "sober" consciousness.

So it is not wrong to say that Jesus was constantly high on DMT relative to you. This is what you guys are overlooking when you use this notion of a "sober" or "natural" state. There are some people who are born naturally high on DMT. These people don't even need to meditate. But you look at them and think you are like them. You're not. To be like them you need to smoke a bunch of DMT.

Quote

My point is, how do you know the potential of a sober state when you still have egoic attachments?

Again, there is no such thing as a "sober" state. By meditating a lot you actually change your brain chemistry such that you start becoming high.

How do I know? Because I've been so conscious that it's obvious to me that no amount of meditation can produce that. But I can't prove that to you. You'll realize it too if you do enough psychedelics.

Quote

I'm obviously not 'Enlightened' and also still have lots of egoic attachments, but throughout history, there is a consistent and recurring theme amongst spiritual practitioners that once the ego is 'destroyed' and (not just conceptually) understood to be illusory, then as a result, one's baseline state of consciousness no longer derives from the ego and instead becomes a state of Being. This is obviously the point to which the Buddha was referring to as simply 'the end of suffering'.

Okay, but I am referring to something beyond that.

Quote

So despite your many 5-MeO (etc) Awakenings, if you haven't reached Enlightenment / detached from the ego to the point where your natural state of Consciousness is completely unidentified with a separate self and instead resides in a state of Being, then how do you know the potential of any sober state of Consciousness? To say you know would be to say you've reached Enlightenment, which I know you've already stated that you haven't yet.

Even if you lost the sense of self entirely in the so-called "sober state" you would still not be infinitely conscious. Which enlightened teachers obviously are not. If you ever become infinitely conscious you'll realize that teachers are not in that state.

And, BTW, there are many degrees of ego-loss. An enlightened teacher still remembers his human name and childhood. I have been in such profound state of ego-loss that I could not recall my name or childhood.

Quote

Also, despite how ridiculously insane these 5-MeO states obviously are, if you still have egoic attachments then they're still being reflected upon by the ego once the Awakening comes to an end. This isn't to deny these realizations but rather to highlight that these same degrees of 5-MeO experiences would be reflected upon differently by an Enlightened person experiencing them, which in turn could deepen their sober state of Being further. I'd argue that the baseline state of Consciousness of an Enlightened person who, after their Enlightenment, went on to take 5-MeO 100+ times, would be more revealing of the potential of the sober state. And that's without throwing in the factors of abnormal genetics and the potential of the 'sober state' whilst practising meditation/yoga/self-enquiry.

Of course combining both approaches would be ideal.

I'm not against sober practices. Just don't fool yourself in the process.

28 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura why total identification with everything is > than total disidentification from everything? I think they are both equally valid truths. 

Because ultimate truth is UNITY!

They are not equal. UNITY is always a meta function which includes both unity and disunity. But the sum total of unity and disunity is UNITY, not DISUNITY!

What you're not grasping is that UNITY is an Absolute. Disidentication cannot be an Absolute because you need an "other" to disidentify from.

The thing you're trying to disidentify from is yourself! Grasp that!

Quote

also wouldn't you say that total disidentification from everything requires a total peak of awareness?

No, it requires less than peak awareness because peak awareness is UNITY/IDENTITY.

It's like you are arguing that if there is good there must also be bad. But what I'm telling you is No! Absolute Good is a meta thing which incorporates both good and bad, resulting in an Absolute Good. And there is no Absolute Bad.

God is all upside, no downside. This is the wonder of God. Such a thing doesn't seem possible. And yet it is. It's a counter-intuitive mindfuck.

[VeganAwake]

25 minutes ago, Consilience said:

That’s the thing, fear of pain is one of the crucial dualities preventing infinity from breaking through

Fear and pain is already an aspect of infinity.

The attempt to break away from it is the duality itself.

❤ 

[Salvijus]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you're not grasping is that UNITY is an Absolute. Disidentication cannot be an Absolute because you need an "other" to disidentify from.

The thing you're trying to disidentify from is yourself! Grasp that!

I see your point. But I think having no identity is also Unity. Which is equally valid state imo. Zero=infinity 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

To be without identity doesn't imply duality.

Being IS identity!

You can't be without identity. This is silly.

If you are emptiness/formless/void -- that is your identity.

But the point is, if you are feeling pain, that pain is part of your Absolute Identity. If you are trying to tell yourself, "I am not this pain" you are not being conscious/truthful. You are creating division in your own Mind. It is more conscious and truthful to say, "I am this pain as well as everything else".

If pain is arising, you ARE that pain. There is no way around this. Of course you can train yourself to stomach the pain or even to just tune it out of your awareness. You could also train yourself to love pain and even get a twisted joy out of it.

[VeganAwake]

When everything is fully accepted exactly the way it is without separation...... when it's recognized there isn't a real individual to accept or not.

Is the end of suffering!

Is Paradise Freedom enlightenment

❤ 

Edited December 8, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Rilles]

11 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 

This shit has been stuck in my head for the past 10 minutes now. 

[mememe]

18 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Leo Gura why total identification with everything is > than total disidentification from everything? I think they are both equally valid truths. 

also wouldn't you say that total disidentification from everything requires a total peak of awareness? I'm sorry if you answered this already. I didn't get it ? if no. Why not.

 

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I would question this. I think total no-identity state is possible without creating a duality. To be without identity doesn't imply duality. It implies oneness also imo.

it is because disidentification is a tool to trick oneself the same as identification is.

you could also say if your buddhism is weaker than buddhism ofc you would disidentify.

people usually disidentify because of shaddow aspects of their integrity. 

identification is an inclusive consciousness state, open for learning while disidentification is a ex-clusive contracted self pervasive consciousness state.