Unvaccinated Travellers Barred from PLanes & Trains

[Arcangelo]

^Yeap, that's me.

 

Let's see how far they take it.

 

[rnd]

On 1/12/2021 at 8:29 AM, Bojan V said:

That's a wonderful news. The same measures are implemented here in Slovenia as well and that's appropriate.

I think it is. Because only via that the vaccinated ones will finally become able to point the fingers at themselves and realize that they're themselves the only ones to blame. Who else they would blame then?
And that they spread as much virus as non-vaccinated people. Look at Singapore, South Korea, Israel, UK and Europe and US. As the news where mostly vaccinated spread the new variant.

In Brazil  this variant was brought by  2 fully vaccinated people, for the 1st time, in December. Bravo.

---
In case of c-19:

1) At hospitals end up not those who are unvaccinated, but those who have bad health. Granted, AMONG those, mostly unvaccinated. But not only.

2) Vaccinated recover easily only, and only, if they already have good heath. Therefore, if you vaccinate a normal heathy person, and he then gets sicks and recovers -- that's not because of a vaccine. But because of his good health.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[rnd]

On 1/12/2021 at 8:50 AM, Tanz said:

The people that are vaccinated are upset at those that are not taking it and they feel upset because they arent willing to take the tiny risk while they sacrificed for the "greater good."  

You say "risk"? What "risk"? From ... a vaccine? You as a vaccinated admit that you took a risk by getting a vaccine?

Or risk from what? From a unvaccinated person to a vaccinated one? How? If a person is vaccinated, what is it he or she is afraid of then? A vaccine surely protects a vaccinated person, doesn't it?

Or risk for an unvaccinated person himself? Why do YOU care? That's his own choise, and no one's business except him.

There're thousands of other kinds of risks out there, for every kind of person. Take care of yourself - it's none of your business to access risks for others.



Go ahead, explain yourself. What risk concreately?


---
And vaccinated people spread the virus too, and not less of it.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[rnd]

On 9/12/2021 at 10:34 PM, BlackMaze said:

I guess some people are happy about the fucked up measures in every country and like being part of this stupid separation and support it. Most people are now vaccinated at least in many countries. Because they took the decision now they are willing to accept everything and support this madness because not doing so would make them look stupid and worst of all wrong. Nobody wants to be wrong. What can a 5% of people do? Not much. They are the weird ones and there is enough police to deal with their silly demonstrations. They are killing your grandma after all. Tv controls society. Still. Just go take your daily vaccine until you too hopefully had enough. 

It's not that bad, because vaccinated over time become... unvaccinated.
And unvaccinated can become vaccinated even without vaccine - with a right nurse.

But these restrictions, nonetheless, for vaccinated / non-vaccinated have the traits of nothing but fascism.

Bolsonaro - number 1 -  he's always against this nonsensical, advertized, extermely overblown virus. If I were a brazilian resident, I'd vote for him any time.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[vladorion]

All this talk about the necessity of forcing people to take vaccines is from people who are out of touch with their soul. That includes Leo, unfortunately, who has an influence on a lot of people.

[SgtPepper]

7 hours ago, AlterEgo said:

No amount of vaccines or masks are going to 'end' the pandemic.  You guys do realize covid is here to stay, and there is no way to completely eradicate it?  

How about this:  I am responsible for my own health, and you are responsible for yours.  Take responsibility for your own health, and stop blaming others for your own well being.   Too crazy? 

If you are scare of getting sick, why don't you stay home and take all the precautions you'd like?  Instead of blaming the 'unvaccinated monsters' out there.  

Why are covid cases higher this year than last year, even with vaccines?  Why are they calling for people to get a 4th booster shot already?  Why are tons of vaccinated still getting sick? Where is the real world evidence the vaccines do anything to stop the spread?  They fuckin lied about the effectiveness of the vaccines with their 95% effective bullshit, and it is super obvious at this point.

Because we live in semi-democratic societies where people literally vote for you to not have freedom because you refuse to gain immunity.

For example, I live very close to NYC and I love visiting sometimes, it's a small area and highly populated. It's mandatory there to be vaccinated to enjoy any events or restaurants.

A person who is unvaccinated increases the risk of spreading the disease, so why should the people of NYC let you in? 

Why don't you take responsibility for your decision instead of blaming the government?

 

@Arcangelo So you don't actually believe the vaccine is risky. You just don't like the mandate? Why not like get the vaccine and be against the mandate? 

isn't wearing a dildo unreasonable versus taking a vaccine that increase population immunity? 

Taking a vaccine that creates antibodies against Covid and reduces the spread, seems reasonable to make it mandatory to get it, IF you want to enter areas where community members are.

@rnd If most people in the hospital are unvaccinated than how do you conclude that vaccines have 0 effect on how a body reacts the virus? Do you have any resources, data, rationale based on observations?

Furthermore, the rationale is that vaccinations do eventually wane in effectiveness, I believe it is 6 months, which is why it is encouraged to get a booster. Do you have any data that support that vaccinated + boosters are going to hospital at the same rate as unvaccinated people?

Edited December 12, 2021 by SgtPepper

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

So you don't actually believe the vaccine is risky. You just don't like the mandate?

If you give a peanut or a shrimp to every single person in the world, a couple of them are going to have a very rough time. That's how I see it.

I just don't like the mandate.

 

 

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

Why not like get the vaccine and be against the mandate? 

^

11 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

My way of protesting is by not getting vaccinated.

I'll take the risk, and if I put others at risk, so be it.

 

 

[Opo]

8 hours ago, rnd said:

And that they spread as much virus as non-vaccinated people. 

In case of c-19:

1) At hospitals end up not those who are unvaccinated, but those who have bad health. Granted, AMONG those, mostly unvaccinated. But not only.

2) Vaccinated recover easily only, and only, if they already have good heath. Therefore, if you vaccinate a normal heathy person, and he then gets sicks and recovers -- that's not because of a vaccine. But because of his good health.

What's the value in not banning people like this? 

[rnd]

15 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

@rnd If most people in the hospital are unvaccinated than how do you conclude that vaccines have 0 effect on how a body reacts the virus? Do you have any resources, data, rationale based on observations?

Furthermore, the rationale is that vaccinations do eventually wane in effectiveness, I believe it is 6 months, which is why it is encouraged to get a booster. Do you have any data that support that vaccinated + boosters are going to hospital at the same rate as unvaccinated people?

I say "a vaccine against c-19 MAY help those and only those who have bad health already". Because for a person with bad health the only thing left is ... vaccine. But that's a small percentage of all people on the planet. But even fully vaccinated people with bad health do end in hospitals and some die. So it's not about a vaccine that much, it's health that one has already, and always has been.

Yeah, vaccines wane in effectivness, therefore you need  booster, after booster, after booster, after booster, after booster, after booster, after booster....

for how long? Till the end of your life?

You're like a drugaddict who tells others about benefits of a doze. After a few boosters your immune system will become, I figure, uncapable of fighting the virus, or similar ones, naturally.

There're scientific studies that support the idea there's nothing scientific at all in mass vaccination. But I don't read them.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[Johnny Galt]

@rnd Excuse me sir, but you are posting too much. For everyone's safety, please wait another 6 hours before you make another post 

Kidding aside, I thought Germans were smart? 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Tim R]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

Kidding aside, I thought Germans were smart? 

 

 

Wtf I have never seen anything like this and I lived in Hesse for the last three years? "Hessians were always dicks" lol

[vizual]

20 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@rnd Excuse me sir, but you are posting too much. For everyone's safety, please wait another 6 hours before you make another post 

Kidding aside, I thought Germans were smart? 

 

 

Any person with an ounce of self-respect should refuse such a task. Cleaning toilets is way more honorable than this

[Philipp]

I see a lot of Misinformation that "the vaccine does not reduce the transmission of the virus"

My brother, who is a doctor  and did almost only Covid cases for the last 1,5 years, told me that the vaccine reduces the spread by about 40%.

I also read this study (Oct 2021) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext by a Journal on Infectious Disease, which does state, that (since the delta varriant) the reduction of transmission from the vaccine is "minimal". But they also say, that it is possible, that a third shot can improve this. Apparently also the viral load in vaccinated people reduces faster than in unvaccinated people. 

I also read this article (Oct 2021): https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/10/13/do-coronavirus-vaccines-prevent-transmission-of-the-virus, which does speak of a "large study" done by the Oxford University, which does find a reduction in transmission (65% reduction for Pfizer, 35% for Astra).

So I guess this question does seem remain somewhat unclear, especially since the emergance of the delta variant (and now the omnicron variant). It is also unclear what effect the booster shot will have. ("The question of whether booster doses will improve the impact on transmission should be addressed as a top priority." Lanclet). It s better to not make certain statements, as long as there is still need for more research. 

However I would also like to state, that spreading the virus is not the only way you are affecting others. With limited healthcare ressources, we can also affect others by getting hospitalized. 

[Johnny Galt]

@Philipp Countries like Canada and the US, they are in the habit of giving billions to other countries to help with their infrastructure, and so why are there limited health care resources? Health care has been stretched thin for sometime (a lot longer then 2 years) and international organizations and philanthropists they have been warning of pandemics, and so why have we not properly prepared for this?

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html - The money and time put into preparing for events such as the last 2 years, why have we been caught off guard? 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[rnd]

5 hours ago, Philipp said:

However I would also like to state, that spreading the virus is not the only way you are affecting others. With limited healthcare ressources, we can also affect others by getting hospitalized. 

While some people like to think that they help their community by getting vaccinated, they still can spread the virus too. More or less so - it's arguable. I've read that it's more or less equal.

However, others really help their community by having strong health, and therefore, not falling sick in the first place, and therefore, not spreading the virus. A non infected person simply can't spread a virus. Or when they fall sick, they do it for a short period time because they'll recover quickly thanks to their health.


That - is true help to one's community,  which none of the vaccines, or vaccinated people, will ever beat.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rnd

[rnd]

It's astonishing that some weak people with shitty health give advice to healthy people of how to care about health.

[vladorion]

14 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

A person who is unvaccinated increases the risk of spreading the disease, so why should the people of NYC let you in? 

A person who is unvaccinated is more likely to have symptoms and stay home, therefore not spreading it to others.

A person who is vaccinated is less likely to have symptoms and therefore more likely to go out and infect others.

[vladorion]

Also, if this is really about preventing people from spreading the virus, then a positive antibody test should be as good as a vaccination certificate.

[rnd]

Japan's health authority admits there're side effects from some vaccines; doesn't push vaccines onto its citizens and recommends to assess risks(!) and benefits first, if one decides to go ahead

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/covid-19-japan-places-myocarditis-warning-on-vaccines-requires-informed-consent/

Compare it to Europe, Canada, US, AU, some other countries wherein people get jabbed like cattle.

Edited December 13, 2021 by rnd