A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Egoisego said:

it is still a feeling. it is ok to feel that feel. it is like pain and anxiety is.  but you can never say that one thing is more pure. it is like saying one stone is more than another stone is

It's beyond a feeling. It's existential. It's WHAT reality is.

[jse]

Imagine for a moment the following situation, in both actual and metaphorical terms:

You follow your "enlightened guru" to the top of a tall mountain, along with all his non-questioning obedient followers who are mostly young minds impatient and eager to become "enlightened".  He then takes his followers to the edge of a cliff, and says to them:

"In order for you to become enlightened as I am, you need to let go of your ego. Jump."

As his followers stand there like lemmings on the precipice, you look down to what seems like a path to a sure physical death.  So you put your critical thinking cap into high gear, and after some rational consideration you openly question your guru's advice.  Immediately the guru's minions come to his aid, surround you with the usual stuff about not being open-minded, non-compliance, being dismissive of the guru's divine knowledge, low consciousness, lack of experience with the divine, your color stage, blah blah blah.  Sheeple are sheeple regardless of their paths, but will you take this last leap of faith under all that peer pressure, or will you follow your own destiny?

Right now there is a 17yo kid on the other side of the planet, sitting on 500mg 5-MeO, teetering on the edge of the precipice, and taking advice and pressure from clueless posters who have nothing to lose if his young mind plunges into an abyss he cannot find a way out of.

This is the kind of critical thinking (to quote Leo) "you guys" lack here.

Critical thinking is an essential part of life, and is absolutely critical in life or death situations.

[Egoisego]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's beyond a feeling. It's existential. It's WHAT reality is.

it is what reality is you say. ok

so reality is love.

it seems as a long shot that some feeling we prefer is reality. and you could say one deny the world which is right now. everything is enlightened.

enlightenment is not this endless bliss,and this is where everybody starts to fool themself and misses enlightenment, enlightenment is this, enlightenment is not a rush of signals in the brain. every state is . the next state is the next state, be in this state

Edited December 20, 2016 by Egoisego

[hundreth]

33 minutes ago, jse said:

Imagine for a moment the following situation, in both actual and metaphorical terms:

You follow your "enlightened guru" to the top of a tall mountain, along with all his non-questioning obedient followers who are mostly young minds impatient and eager to become "enlightened".  He then takes his followers to the edge of a cliff, and says to them:

"In order for you to become enlightened as I am, you need to let go of your ego. Jump."

As his followers stand there like lemmings on the precipice, you look down to what seems like a path to a sure physical death.  So you put your critical thinking cap into high gear, and after some rational consideration you openly question your guru's advice.  Immediately the guru's minions come to his aid, surround you with the usual stuff about not being open-minded, non-compliance, being dismissive of the guru's divine knowledge, low consciousness, lack of experience with the divine, your color stage, blah blah blah.  Sheeple are sheeple regardless of their paths, but will you take this last leap of faith under all that peer pressure, or will you follow your own destiny?

Right now there is a 17yo kid on the other side of the planet, sitting on 500mg 5-MeO, teetering on the edge of the precipice, and taking advice and pressure from clueless posters who have nothing to lose if his young mind plunges into an abyss he cannot find a way out of.

This is the kind of critical thinking (to quote Leo) "you guys" lack here.

Critical thinking is an essential part of life, and is absolutely critical in life or death situations.

Love this 

Quote

Yeah, life is a balance
You lose your grip, you can slip into an abyss
No doubt you see these niggas trippin'

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, jse said:

Imagine for a moment the following situation, in both actual and metaphorical terms:

You follow your "enlightened guru" to the top of a tall mountain, along with all his non-questioning obedient followers who are mostly young minds impatient and eager to become "enlightened".  He then takes his followers to the edge of a cliff, and says to them:

"In order for you to become enlightened as I am, you need to let go of your ego. Jump."

As his followers stand there like lemmings on the precipice, you look down to what seems like a path to a sure physical death.  So you put your critical thinking cap into high gear, and after some rational consideration you openly question your guru's advice.  Immediately the guru's minions come to his aid, surround you with the usual stuff about not being open-minded, non-compliance, being dismissive of the guru's divine knowledge, low consciousness, lack of experience with the divine, your color stage, blah blah blah.  Sheeple are sheeple regardless of their paths, but will you take this last leap of faith under all that peer pressure, or will you follow your own destiny?

Right now there is a 17yo kid on the other side of the planet, sitting on 500mg 5-MeO, teetering on the edge of the precipice, and taking advice and pressure from clueless posters who have nothing to lose if his young mind plunges into an abyss he cannot find a way out of.

This is the kind of critical thinking (to quote Leo) "you guys" lack here.

Critical thinking is an essential part of life, and is absolutely critical in life or death situations.

That's why they call it a leap of faith. And that's no joke. You cannot enlighten without surrender.

The sheeple is actually the skeptic. You're not seeing yet that your rational skeptic stance is an egoic ideology.

Western egos have a really hard time with accepting the whole concept of a guru. In the classical sense a guru is someone you SURRENDER your SELF to. That is the path. I know, I know... this is like poison to a skeptic's ear. I'm not saying I'm for or against it. I'm just saying that's how that particular technique works. You muster the courage to SURRENDER to the guru, and you attain enlightenment. Or fail to do so if he happens to be a bad or corrupt guru. Is this approach to enlightenment fool-proof? Of course not. Are there dangers? Of course there are. But don't forget there are dangers with ALL paths. There is no fool-proof way to complete enlightenment. And taking an ideological skeptic stance could be the most dangerous option. Every day that you're not enlightened you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you (ahem... Donald Trump) So arguments about the dangers of pursuing spiritual development are rather ironic, as people making them ignore the massive damage caused by ego every passing day.

Today at least a thousand lives were lost on the Earth due to lack of spiritual development. And millions more suffered greatly.

With all that said, I NEVER ask you guys to follow the classic guru path. I always ask you to be critical thinkers. But being a good critical thinker means being critical of your own tendency to criticize everything you're ignorant of.

True skepticism is having no position at all on anything. I have yet to meet such person in real life. His behavior would exude COMPLETE openmindness with no qualifications. His mind would be still like a pond. A perfect balance of all opposite opinions and beliefs. He would be free and present like a child.

[abrakamowse]

I would love to have time to read all this thread. I have to get up early for work tomorrow.

I need help creating my new reality Lol...

:-)

 

I think this can be helpful, I read it as a Child and I always remember it. I couldn't understand it at that time but now I know what he is talking about.

It's a Kahlil Gibran poem

 

http://www.katsandogz.com/oncrime.html

[stevegan928]

6 hours ago, jse said:

your color stage

kek

[Extreme Z7]

@Leo Gura Would I be correct in guessing that when the term 'Healing' is used by Ra, he's referring to enlightenment?

[Leo Gura]

@Extreme Z7 No, more like psycho-spiritual purification or chakra cleansing.

As your "energy-body" is purified, energy blockages are unblocked and you become more spiritually attuned. Very much like a Jedi gets attuned to The Force. Your mind and body become clear, untainted by low-consciousness cravings and fears. You're permeated by a thirst for consciousness, love, and the Infinite. Materialistic matters become irrelevant in your calculations in the same way that as an adult you no longer crave kids toys. You acquire a kind of glow or radiance.

Most people have no idea how much emotional baggage they have locked up in their entire body. The energy flow is all twisted up from a lifetime of low-consciousness living, repressed emotions, and repressed passions. Ego takes a heavy toll on the body.

When you're stuck in your head, you're not aware that you're also very much stuck in your body. There is no hard separation between mind/body/spirit. It's one interrelated system.

Fixing this whole mess is another one of the very important aspects of spiritualy/nonduality that Zen Devils neglect. When it comes to your happiness and well-being, clearing this up is probably gonna have a bigger impact than enlightenment.

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura Do you think you're going to cover bodywork/chakras and purification in the future? It's something I'd love to learn more about.

[Leo Gura]

@Joel3102 Yes. I'm planning to get some energy work done on myself using a good healer I know over the next few months, so there should be some good insights from that process to share with ya'll.

I also want to experiment with various kinds of massage techniques for releasing energy blocks, coupling it with my growing mindfulness skills. Results from that should be interesting too.

This is a very deep field however. You could spend 10 years just studying and experimenting with it. There's a whole science and art to it. People devote their entire lives to mastering it. So I'm just a newb to it. But I see a lot of potential there.

[Neo]

In the mind of those convinced that drugs are the path, "it is the rest of the world who has a problem".

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cult-leaders-what-makes-people-like-david-koresh-so-successful-getting-people-follow-them-1555073

 

Just saying.

[Leo Gura]

@Neo That's why I'm constantly harping against ideology. Ideology of ANY kind -- including scientific and rationalist -- is mechanical and leads to much suffering.

Any tool can be abused. Hence the importance of values, emotional development, and conscious development on this path. Otherwise varieties of Zen Devilry can happen.

Don't forget that the biggest cult is the one you're presently a part of: mainstream Western materialism. It destroys lives by the 100s of thousands every year.

[Travis]

On Saturday, December 17, 2016 at 9:47 PM, NTOgen said:

That would be your projection. Jed McKenna makes it very clear that his process of autolysis requires a great deal of research, which I've done both before and after reading his books. You have qualities Leo but you're really not as special as you think.

As others here also say, sooner or later you simply won't be interested in hoovering every little nook and cranny anymore. Not only does it become counterproductive and you could easily get lost in the miasma, but also you get more and more focus and direction and discrimination as you go along, and you're simply not drawn to all the sideshows anymore.

At some point it just doesn't add any more value, it only becomes dead weight and time wasted. There's more important work to do. It also shows that your ass probably isn't on fire enough to pull through. Time will tell whether or not that is yet to happen.

You can tell me that your "personal enlightenment" was easy to attain when you get there, and not before. It's easy to think you're "almost there" or that you can already see the light at the end of the tunnel. I've thought that for years and I can confidently tell you that you're wrong.

Besides all that, I didn't just fall into this by stumbling upon a couple of books by a clever writer. His books for me are part of a much larger picture of my own life, it just so happens that he has been very influential in finding my direction at a specific turning point in my life.

 

If you've turned openmindedness into a goal all its own, then that would be your thing. You say you would not have been able to handle these Ra books two years ago, I can tell you I would have been able to handle them probably up to five years ago. I mean, if this is going to be your open mindedness test...

 

Very well put. As you so aptly put it before, there's nothing new under the sun. Been there, done that.

 

So do I, but everything I do turns on that center. I already told you that the only reason I keep coming back here is for the purpose of inquiring into my own obstacles. I do know I have them, I'm not enlightened after all.

What I find odd is that you don't mind wasting your precious time running a self-help business and shooting weekly videos and managing, teaching and leading a large community. Even without the enlightenment stuff, and even without the forum, that would be more than a fulltime job for you. Who the hell do you think you're kidding? You're almost like the cliche Hollywood waitress who thinks she's really an actress.

 

Hence my persistent push for focus and direction. If you can't find that in yourself then you've already lost. The beliefs that have you by the balls are the ones that tell you to bury your head in every single teaching or supernatural phenomenon.

Guess what, all of life is a supernatural phenomenon, and all of life is your teaching, and that's what you're running away from by looking for all things special and trying to wrap your mind around a grand unified theory of dreamland.

My older brother spent much of his early life on that and happily gave it up when he saw the utter futility and nonsense of it. There are definitely things to learn from it but then you have to move the fuck on.

 

 

Very well said.

[Clayman]

Oo yes.

[Time Traveler]

On 17.12.2016. at 11:12 AM, str4 said:

... and on top of all, it's infinite (even infinite is a concept that doesn't describe it) then it's absurd to say that something isn't possible. ...

I've heard this argument so frequently recently that I cannot restrain myself: Infinite doesn't mean "includes everything". For example set of integer numbers are infinite, yet contains only integer numbers and not flying saucers

[Tancrede Pouyat]

3 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

Set of integer numbers are infinite, yet contains only integer numbers and not flying saucers

Yes, that's true.

3 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

Infinite doesn't mean "includes everything"

And that's true too. However, don't confuse being infinite and being an infinity. Some infinities are bigger than others. For example, the infinity between 0 and 1 is smaller than the infinity between 0 and 2. They were able to prove this in Set theory, it's complicated I'm not gonna get into it here.

There is 1 infinity that does include everything. It's Absolute Infinity. It's not just the biggest of all the infinities, it is everything. The concept "everything" includes everything, right ? Well, that's Absolute Infinity.

To give you a taste : infinity to the power of infinity, done an infinite number of times, and then we keep going meta like that an infinite number of times, gives you a very high number. That number doesn't even come close to 0.0000000000001% of Absolute Infinity.

The mind just can't grasp this, because the mind can only work with things that have boundaries, that are finite. And yes, even infinity is a finite concept, and even Absolute Infinity is a finite concept, so they're incredibly inaccurate descriptions of the real thing.

[ZeN]

I would like to clarify an issue I have with Absolute Infinity due to my ignorance and not having it experienced first hand.

Can we conclude that Absolute Infinity includes all that is Possible and nothing that is Impossible? By Impossible I mean for example that an infinite set of integer numbers cant include neither flying saucers nor non-integer numbers. Impossible "things" cant exist by definition, I cant be white or black at the same time. The only thing that exists (only in our minds) in this context is the definition or concept of impossibility.

In other words, the set of Possible "things, phenomena, awareness" is infinite which means we can't say that Everything is possible. 

Rather, Everything that is possible (an infinite "set"), exists. So, Absolute Infinity is an absolute set of what is Possible.

The reason I think this distinction is crucial is because most people confuse the concepts of "Everything is Possible" with "Absolute Infinity" - myself included until recently...I hope I'll get it sorted out as far as intellect allows it to.

I would appreciate if @Leo Gura or others who have direct experience of Absolute Infinity would chime in to clarify

 

[Leo Gura]

It's the one thing that cannot be spoken.

When you realize that every limit must have another limit to justify it, you will realize that reality is the sum total of EVERYTHING and NOTHING.

Reality is that which has no container or limit.

It's a lot weirder than "everything is possible." EVERYTHING and NOTHING are, simultaneously!

Imagine an infinite-sized hard drive with an infinite number of infinite partions. And none of it exists!

Fuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkk!

Mind. Blown.

Now you can really appreciate why Islam forbids images of Allah, and why Zen masters keep silent. It would be a great injustice. How can something limited represent the absolutely unlimited?

[Leo Gura]

@ZeN The problem with possiblities is that that too is a distinction.

And it assumes time. But time doesn't exist. So everything collapses into a sort of undifferentiated singularity.

You gotta wonder, what would limit which possiblities get realized? And how could that limit itself be enforced? By another limit? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one?

Anything the mind comes up with is, by definition a limit. Anything that exists is a limit. That's WHAT existence or thing-ness IS: limit. And what limits how many limits there are?

Nothing

OMG! is exactly right!