Increase in vaccine coercion

[Johnny Galt]

@Windappreciator Transitioning to whole foods and vegan would be amazing. In regards to obesity, I'd say it's more about the garbage put into our food and the excessive processing which is why most men look pregnant - "birthing people"

 

 

[Blackhawk]

After my first dose of Pfizer/Biontech my arm was very sore. But after my second dose (got it yesterday) my arm isn't sore at all. Weird? I think it should have got sore again?

Since the anti-vaxxers are everywhere.. There has been cases where the nurses have switched the vaccine to inoperative saline, and then injected the patients with saline instead of vaccine, against the patients knowledge. So that's a bit on my mind..

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

After my first dose of Pfizer/Biontech my arm was very sore. But after my second dose (got it yesterday) my arm isn't sore at all. Weird? I think it should have got sore again?

Did you not feel anything else? I had my second dose 2 days ago and it made me feel a bit ill. Still feel a bit weird.

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Did you not feel anything else? I had my second dose 2 days ago and it made me feel a bit ill. Still feel a bit weird.

I did get a bit headache and nausea. But sometimes I can get such stuff anyway. But yeah it was probably the vaccine which caused the headache and nausea. So I probably got the real lovely vaccine injected inside me.

[ZzzleepingBear]

1 hour ago, Johnny Galt said:

@ZzzleepingBear Agreed. Covid could, and I imagine would be, a big factor in those situations, and yet to just lump then all under, "death by covid", without mentioning obesity or other underlying conditions as a part of the equation, isn't this misleading? Meaning, the news will continually just state "deaths by covid" without embellishing and disclosing there's more to the picture. 

Essentially, it's hypothetical, but to pass it off as a black and white case, at the extent that it's being done, we present a false translation of reality. Yes? No? 

And again, this is just one video, one example of many...

 

I think it would be hard to know for sure what other underlying conditions it would be that could be the other half of the case for a so called covid death. Death by obesity for example, would probably not fly as an explanation of a cause of death, even though that would be a huge long term contributing factor most likely. I think that covid labled death can be somewhat misleading, but mostly so in individual cases.

One must take into account for general statistics when it comes to large number of people rather than looking to much into unique individual cases.

I think they reason as such, that if a person dies who had covid, chances are that covid could be the actual tipping point despite underlying conditions. Because underlying health conditions are in general also long term conditions, as opposed to covid that speed up the whole process to a earlier death. So it's probably not as black and white as one may initially think.

Also, the video you provided is done with intention to inform the public on how they count, so it's quite transparent information that is easy for anyone to digest.

[Johnny Galt]

@ZzzleepingBear

23 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Also, the video you provided is done with intention to inform the public on how they count, so it's quite transparent information that is easy for anyone to digest.

Yes, it was transparent. But what is the public generally being fed? through the air waves and news reports? Morning to night?

It's usually the black and white, "these are the cases, and these are the deaths". In this, the public is in fear and they can become more easily persuaded to partake in extreme measure, and yet for their safety. For our safety, where are authorities experts, in regards to physical, mental, and emotional well being? What are all the ways in which we can nurture and build ourselves to be most optimal and therefore resilient, for our safety? - shouldn't there be a focus on this too? 

Consider Australia and New Zealand and the control and enforcement measures of late. Look at there cases and deaths count, with the previous posts in mind. Note that these stats apply to back when this all started, 17/18 months, not just 12 months. 

[7thLetter]

My province in Canada just announced a vaccine passport mandate that requires us to show proof of vaccination to have access to certain non-essential services.

People are so outraged by this I don't really understand why.

The amount of vaccine hesitancy out there somewhat leaves me doubtful, but I might as well get it anyway to get this thing over with, I'll probably go with Moderna.

The odd thing I've noticed though with anti-vaxxers is that they often talk down on the vaccine but they never really mention anything about the virus? Do they just believe that covid doesn't exist and the government is just pushing a vaccine onto us for no reason? Do they believe that any potential risks of the vaccine outweighs the risks of the virus?

And why do they all say the same exact things? It's like one person spread his own beliefs to thousands or millions of other people like a religious cult. I always hear people ask, "Why was it created so quickly" "If your vaccine or mask works why do you care about others who haven't got a mask or vaccine" "Ivermectin, ivermectin, ivermectin!" "Why does the government push it onto us so much" "A pandemic with a virus so serious that you need to take a test to know if you got it." And blah blah blah.

I'm tired of all this.

[BadHippie]

@7thLetter I could say the same to all the people taking the vaccine. All the same talk for all the people who take the vaccine. I´m tired of it at as well... At least the people who are against the vaccine, don´t try to force their view onto other people. At least here in Germany. They just want to decide on their own what´s good for them. 

[7thLetter]

@BadHippie I think you're confusing me as a pro-vaxxer.

My post was created to express uncertainty around the vaccine. I'm currently unvaccinated and I'm somewhere in the middle, but if the government is going to mandate it then fine I'll probably take it. But then you got all these people who are outraged with these vaccine passports which reinforces the doubts I have about the vaccine.

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

At least the people who are against the vaccine, don´t try to force their view onto other people.

And its funny you say this, because from what I've seen yes they actually DO force their views onto others. They do it directly and indirectly by creating protests, writing all over the Youtube comments, Instagram comments, and creating all sorts of anti-vaxx videos like "DOCTOR WITH PH.D GOES VIRAL ABOUT THE RISK OF VACCINATION!!!!"

As someone who is neither pro or anti-vaxx, anti-vaxx views have been indirectly pushed onto me even more than pro-vaxx views. From what it seems, you're mainly talking about your own personal experience here because you're saying that they don't but I say they actually do. But I mean you did mention, "At least here in Germany" so fair enough.

Plus anti-vaxxers always say "they keep pushing it they keep pushing it!" We're in a pandemic, of course the pro-vaxxers are going try to push the vaxx because that's how we're supposed to fight the virus right? If your experience tells me that anti-vaxxers don't push their views onto others then of course, it's because it doesn't benefit them for others not to take the vaccine. But for pro-vaxxers it does benefit them for others to take the vaccine, to beat the pandemic so we can get this over with, right? That's why they would push it.

But even with this they become all stubborn and say things like "If your vaccine works why should I get it" "My body my choice!" And it becomes this back and forth that creates a complete shit show.

You're telling me anti-vaxxers aren't pushing their views onto others yet they're engaging in anti vs pro-vaxx debates all over the internet. Anti-vaxxers disliking all the vaccine videos, filling the comments up with anti-vaxx views. And you also have all these conspiracy theorists trying to 'warn' everyone about the vaccine telling us it was created by Bill Gates and he wants to inject microchips in us, or it'll kill us in 3-5 years, or the government is using it for mind control, and on and on and on.

My mind is filled with all these anti-vaxx views because I see them more often. With all their information that they've spread, at this point I probably could convince you that I'm anti-vaxx, but I'm not.

And if you tell me you're not anti-vaxx you're just 'anti covid vaxx', I say that's honestly the same thing. People always say that one too, "I'm not anti-vaxx I'm anti just this one vaxx! Because um you know its different and idk why the government keeps pushing it on us" "I don't know what's in it, it was created to quickly"

Edit: And I don't think the amount of anti covid vaxxers out there in the world right now wouldn't have been possible if they didn't push their views onto others. All those protesters out on the streets had to get their information from somewhere, where? Maybe they got their information from Facebook or the Youtube comments, a video, or from social media. I doubt they did their own research, they just hear things from other people and take it as truth, then this information spreads like wildfire. What about all the Bill Gates vaccine 5G conspiracy theorists, did they not push their views onto other people? Did they all individually coincidentally come to the same conclusion that Bill Gates wants to inject people with microchips and then later found out that other people came to the same conclusion so they created a Facebook group and started protesting?

Edited August 24, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Consept]

@7thLetter Some really interesting points there and its true why cant someone be anti-vaxx and just not post their views everywhere? Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice. So it does seem from day one, that its been about 'liberating the sheep' and 'telling your truth'. Whats strange is that, yes you can have your point of view but youd be lying, or at the very least exaggerating to say you know 100% your view is correct (even scientists wouldnt say that), when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world.  

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

 

[Epikur]

36 minutes ago, Consept said:

@7thLetter Some really interesting points there and its true why cant someone be anti-vaxx and just not post their views everywhere? Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice. So it does seem from day one, that its been about 'liberating the sheep' and 'telling your truth'. Whats strange is that, yes you can have your point of view but youd be lying, or at the very least exaggerating to say you know 100% your view is correct (even scientists wouldnt say that), when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world.  

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

 

Because minorities are extreme and they lead the decision. On both sides the extremes push. If one extreme would not push the other side would be successful with it's extreme positions. Like the fights between the right and the left in the pas in Europe and now. The stronger one on the street won.

[7thLetter]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice.

100%

For the most part in first-world countries, vaccine mandates only restrict the unvaccinated from entering non-essential businesses such as restaurants, gyms, hotels, etc. Non-essential, yet the unvaccinated go on to complain about their freedom or how they're being forced or "my body my choice!" Nobody has to enter a restaurant, go eat at home. There's a reason why these businesses are deemed non-essential.

We're lucky we're not a third-world country like the Philippines. I heard that the President in the Philippines threatens to jail those who refuse to get vaccinated, they're not even allowed to leave their house if that's their decision. Now THAT'S coercion. Yet everyone here in first-world countries cry about not being able to sit in a restaurant where they overcharge you for a piece of bread.

And definitely, speaking up or protesting isn't really going to do anything. "OMG I'm going to fight for my freedom, we will not comply!" The government doesn't give a shit, the government understands the seriousness of this situation more than some random citizen on the streets. The government will do what they believe is necessary to handle the set of challenges that they've been given. Period. Anyone can try to twist it or create all sorts of conspiracy theories about their intentions all they want but at the end of the day that's all just speculation and the government is just doing its job.

If people want to complain then they should just start their own country or move into outer space, maybe Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk will have a place to put them in the near-future.

People are just so entitled and self-centered.

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world. 

They have no real solutions when you question them, all they have is their selfish opinions. I'm pretty sure working on our own health isn't going to help reduce the spread of the virus. And what about all the unhealthy overweight people who smoke? Should we just tell them to go work on their health and problem solved, pandemic over?

Another thing I keep hearing from anti-vaxxers is, "The government doesn't care about our health, if they did then they would shut down McDonalds or ban smoking." How the hell does that have to do anything with the pandemic? "They keep promoting vaccines but they never promote healthy lifestyles like fitness or eating healthy."

It's not exactly about our health per se, its about containing and mitigating the effects of a freaking virus.

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

 

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

I often hear them talking about how they're "woke" and how more people have to "wake up." So maybe that's what it's about. They're trying to "wake" people up. These are the types of people who believe in conspiracy theories and start to believe they're all spiritual and woke. And then more people start to catch on and it looks like enlightenment gone mainstream, a bunch of people who hear cool ideas and are all of a sudden superior to others. At this pace if we keep spreading these same ideas we'll have a new religion.

I just realized something, maybe this is how anarchy comes about. Keep opposing the government then maybe everyone will get what they've asked for, which will then turn into complete chaos.

Edited August 27, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Consept]

On 27/08/2021 at 7:50 AM, 7thLetter said:

I just realized something, maybe this is how anarchy comes about. Keep opposing the government then maybe everyone will get what they've asked for, which will then turn into complete chaos.

I had this thought as well. Anarchy must come from a complete distrust of the government, which in some cases is valid, probably even in most cases. But if we look at this situation, its not a distrust in this government per se its more a distrust of any organising body and an idealised vision of 'freedom'. What they dont seem to realise is that without any organising body the most powerful will rise up and organise it themselves, most likely a red leader (look at what happened in Afgahnistan). So i think this misunderstanding of what liberation is would be the cause of some sort of anarchy which no one will end up being happy with. There needs to be an understanding that freedom has to be built on some kind of organisation. I think higher levels of the spiral will understand this and within that you get real freedom. Lower levels or those that misunderstand this will perpetually live in fear and seek liberation, most likely setting humans back even further. 

This isnt to say that the government currently is amazing but we can safely say its better than the tyrants and kings of previous. If there has been improvement then there is still work to do of course but it is getting better. 

[Blackhawk]

To anti-vaxxers and vaccine-hesitant people: Watch this from 15:03 to 17:28, and from 29:05 to pretty much the end. 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Johnny Galt]

@Blackhawk This is a better approach to this conversation, blackhawk. This is a good interview and discussion and yet note, this was filmed at the end of 2020. 

Also, I'd add, many are mRNA technology hesitant.

To blackhawk and others, here's something to consider:

(1) Being that this is a newer technology, (2) that they have been using PCR tests which are not designed to determine whether one is infectious or not (cases), (3) and that in many cases they have been labelling ones death as a covid death when in reality age and other underlying illness are contributing factors, I think it's pretty understandable that many are hesitant. (I can provide sources, just ask)

Also consider, just recently a new study came out which shows: "natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/08/new-israeli-study-finds-fully-vaccinated-people-greater-risk-hospitalization-13-times-likely-catch-covid-19-recovered-natural-immunity/ (article)

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 (study)

For those who are medically trained or trained in how to read such studies, I'd love your feed back; is this a quality study?

 

[Roy]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

Also consider, just recently a new study came out which shows: "natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

This is just common sense. If you survive an infection your body will be better off against it (and similar infections) in the future. A vaccine is just a controlled dose of an infection (simulated or otherwise) that gets you protected without having to go through all the risk of a real infection.

However we shouldn't encourage people to just willingly get Covid to build an immunity even if healthy because there is always a risk it could go south for either them or whoever they spread it to. Way more danger with that option than getting a vaccine. And the statistics show it.

The issue with this particular pandemic is since Covid is so ridiculously contagious there really isn't a third option to sit around. This isn't like the regular flu where you can just skip getting the shot most years because contraction rate is so low.

Get your Covid shots people.

[Johnny Galt]

@Roy Note though, this isn't your traditional vaccine, and so it's odd that we continue to call it a vaccine. Maybe I'm nitpicking and so feel free to correct me on that. 

Personally, I'm not encouraging in either direction, to get it or to not get it. But when we handle cases and death numbers, as we have been, and then there's a push for that which is still in the experimental phases, this is very unsettling.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-top-fda-officials-resigned-103227868.html

"The US Food and Drug Administration announced the resignations of two top vaccine officials on Tuesday, and reports said the two were leaving in anger over the Biden administration's plan to roll out COVID-19 booster shots before officials had a chance to approve it."

We still have no clue as to long term safety of this new technology, and now I have two weeks to get it in order to keep my job, even though I work outside. Considering that I've been hospitalized in the past for platelet issues and that adverse reactions in regards to the heart and blood disorders, this is happening, should we not take people like me and those who are pregnant, in to consideration? If one lives like a hermit, don't that count

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1013607/COVID-19_mRNA_Pfizer_BioNTech_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_18.08.2021.pdf

Edited September 1, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Roy]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

We still have no clue as to long term safety of this new technology

Yup, but that's too bad because we don't have the luxury of waiting around. It's already killed millions of people in nearly 2 years. Should we have waited years longer before doing any vaccinations at all?

[Johnny Galt]

@Roy FYI - in regards to the death count, we have muddied the water:

 

a.) Dr. Annie Bukacek 

Practicing medicine for over 30 years. 

"In 2019 she won the ACP Laureate award for the commitement to excellence in medical care"

"Has been filling out death certificates for over 30 years"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5wn1qs_bBk&feature=emb_title

 

b.) Sen. Dr Scott Jensen - on death certificates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMvtz5jDM8

 

c.) DR Ngozi Ezike, Public Health Illinois 

"even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had covid at the same time, it's still listed as a covid death"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYUExBc1ijU&feature=emb_logo

 

1 hour ago, Roy said:

Should we have waited years longer before doing any vaccinations at all?

I'm NOT suggesting this. (edit!!! I left out the word "not")

For clarity, due to the above info that I have presented, I'm not suggesting that this be down played, or that we do not vaccinate, it's more about the mandates for it. (I'm curious how trudeau would suggest we use the word, "mandate"  )

Edited September 1, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[7thLetter]

So this is what's happening in my city right now:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/09/01/protest-blocking-traffic-vancouver-general-hospital/ 

Edited September 1, 2021 by 7thLetter