electroBeam

Trusting Messages from Psychedelics - They LIE

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I've had several psychedelic trips where they strongly convinced me that something was true, and when I probed it in reality, it turned out it wasn't.

I've had trips where it recounted my past and went through a memory I had about my mother. I felt like my mother treated me unfairly by dismissing me when she didn't with my sibling. The trip told me something like she did that because my sibling was XXX and I wasn't. At the time this gave me huge relief, but when I checked or probed it in reality, it wasn't true.

I've had trips where it told me why a particular girl didn't like me. Again when I probed this in reality it wasn't real.

These realizations from trips are quite big and convincing, they feel like major insights or realizations. I resonate deeply with them, they give me huge relief, and I feel more clarity, yet they just aren't true when you discern and investigate them further.

The biggest reason why people trip is to get "lessons", "insights" from them. If you can't even trust the lessons or insights to be true, then what use are these lessons?

I trip for a lot more then just lessons and insights, i mainly trip for recreation or exploring reality for fun, but besides that, can I trust the lessons and insights? Or do I always dismiss them?

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Self-deception is always operative.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Yes, I've had self deceptions that led to metaphysical and epistemological error. I sense however, that my metaphysics was already egoicly skewed which led to this happening. 

Plus, it's such a radically different state... It's easily misinterpreted. 


"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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Here's my theory:

Insights and lessons from trips are still "delusions" but they are just more conscious/higher vibrations delusions Lol.

And also, You have to take into account that you co-create reality (your ego and God), so for example when you develop confidence in relationships (for example) this confidence is as illusory and "not-truth" as the low confidence. Your ego starts to have more good feeling high confidence thoughts just because...fuck it does feel better. But that doesn't mean that high self esteem is "more true" than lower self esteem. They both are creations of the separate self or ego to survive and do shit in the dream.

If you want truth, just be in no self. Everything else will be creation and more creation.

So of course, if you are going to no matter what create stuff, why not create good stuff?

You still haven't grasped how literal is the phrase  "Reality is Imagination".


A thought can´t ever tell you how you feel.

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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-deception is always operative.

Do you have any tips on how to stay epistemically cautious while under the psychedelics? This state feels so true and pretty much everything you come up with makes perfect sense while ur under a substance

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1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

The biggest reason why people trip is to get "lessons", "insights" from them. If you can't even trust the lessons or insights to be true, then what use are these lessons?

Realizing there’s no people tripping & thus reasons people trip is projection. 

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

I trip for a lot more then just lessons and insights, i mainly trip for recreation or exploring reality for fun, but besides that, can I trust the lessons and insights? Or do I always dismiss them?

What’s “I”?


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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I wouldn’t necessarily go as far as say THEY LIE. As Leo says there self deception is always operative, it’s always potentially at play. But your claim as to ‘they lie’ is of your own personal memories, so your ego still seems very much in the game in that situation. They don’t directly lie as such when investigating the nature of reality itself. You can certainly misinterpret, that’s for sure. But what you’ve got to remember when it comes to the relative, your own personal memories, is that from an absolute sense none of them are true. There’s much more chance of self deception when it comes to investigating your own personal life than when investigating what reality is in itself. Just absolute truth. Hopefully that makes sense

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2 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Do you have any tips on how to stay epistemically cautious while under the psychedelics? This state feels so true and pretty much everything you come up with makes perfect sense while ur under a substance

Anything you imagine hard enough is true for you. Because you are God and there is nothing else.

The tip is: YOU ARE CREATING REALITY!


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The tip is: YOU ARE CREATING REALITY!

This is so confusing for me still..  

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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@electroBeam Your mind can only work with what its got and experienced. A better way to look at those experiences is that, in your heart, you believed those things already but didn't know it. When it comes to specific information about finite things, psychedelics will not help you. Seems backwards, but that's the name of the game. 

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4 hours ago, Thought Art said:

This is so confusing for me still..  

Tough to accept for "me" too that I am creating you 😉

There is only One God bro 😂


A thought can´t ever tell you how you feel.

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The reactive mind is still active under most psychedelics. It doesn’t go away.  The voice inside is still chattering. So you enter into a state of hypersugestibility.  You will have nonsense combined with the true intuitive knowledge.  You have to learn to distinguish between the two.    In my most recent mushroom ceremony, I came in contact with my authentic self and realized that my authentic self always knows what to say and do in any situation.  The experience was overpowering and real.

 

 


Vincit omnia Veritas.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Anything you imagine hard enough is true for you. Because you are God and there is nothing else.

The tip is: YOU ARE CREATING REALITY!

If i truly were able to create reality, i wouldn't be creating so much self deception. I dont want that, i want whatever i realize to be true. If i think a girl likes me, i want that to materialize. If i think my mother just liked my sibling more because a particular event happened, i want that to materialize. I am not the one who deeply imagines hard enough that those 2 things happen, and then imagine that those 2 things didnt happen when i investigate further, i do not want the latter and if i was in control the latter would definitely not happen.

I want whatever i imagine to predict with perfect accuracy whats going on, but still even after wanting that hard enough whatever happens is nebulous.

I've had many trips where i realized i was god all alone and that everything i want to materialize doesnt exist. Yet even in that state, i cant put my hand through the wall even if i want to. I cant materialize up a gun even if i want to. It doesnt even feel like i am in control, it feels like some mega nebulous, abstract super computer is in control calling all the shots. 

Edited by electroBeam

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@electroBeam 

5 hours ago, electroBeam said:

If i truly were able to create reality, i wouldn't be creating so much self deception. I dont want that, i want whatever i realize to be true. If i think a girl likes me, i want that to materialize. If i think my mother just liked my sibling more because a particular event happened, i want that to materialize. I am not the one who deeply imagines hard enough that those 2 things happen, and then imagine that those 2 things didnt happen when i investigate further, i do not want the latter and if i was in control the latter would definitely not happen.

I want whatever i imagine to predict with perfect accuracy whats going on, but still even after wanting that hard enough whatever happens is nebulous.

I've had many trips where i realized i was god all alone and that everything i want to materialize doesnt exist. Yet even in that state, i cant put my hand through the wall even if i want to. I cant materialize up a gun even if i want to. It doesnt even feel like i am in control, it feels like some mega nebulous, abstract super computer is in control calling all the shots. 

The notion of "wanting" is all ego, that is why it just doesn't work like that. Desire comes from the ego. Its pretty much that a notion of preference is unnecessary for creation. Its kind of like reading a book. As your reading your manifesting the story in your mind but you dont get to choose what is manifested/imagined before you read the words, It is just "painting" the picture automatically as you read. Your still creating it all though, Same thing for reality. Except your personal self or ego is the story you experience in first person pov. Then everything from there is also the story called your life. 

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30 minutes ago, Kamo said:

@electroBeam 

The notion of "wanting" is all ego, that is why it just doesn't work like that. Desire comes from the ego. Its pretty much that a notion of preference is unnecessary for creation. Its kind of like reading a book. As your reading your manifesting the story in your mind but you dont get to choose what is manifested/imagined before you read the words, It is just "painting" the picture automatically as you read. Your still creating it all though, Same thing for reality. Except your personal self or ego is the story you experience in first person pov. Then everything from there is also the story called your life. 

I get that, but reality isn't separate from ego or wanting. ego and wanting is just as true as god/consciousness.

And you're right about how the universe spontaneously/nebulously creates things without your directed effort, but it doesn't resonate with me at all to identify with that, to call that god and to say that I am that. Identification is part of the creation and using identification to label or connote that behaviour of reality is just something that doesn't make sense to me at all.

I also think its really fucken silly to say that you're creating reality and that you can manifest whatever you want when the truth is the universe manifests things without your control. You are not creating your own reality if you can't put your hand through the wall or burn your house with your finger tips, end of story.

I have a desire to know why and how the nebulous spontaneous mega computer works and why it creates things randomly (or is it random?) and how it does it, etc.

I also have a desire to know how to manifest things in the world and how to control it more to suit my agenda. I dont give a fuck about being egoic, getting what i want is a bigger priority to me then upholding some values of being non egoic. I dont care about enlightenment.

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@electroBeam

18 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I get that, but reality isn't separate from ego or wanting. ego and wanting is just as true as god/consciousness.

And you're right about how the universe spontaneously/nebulously creates things without your directed effort, but it doesn't resonate with me at all to identify with that, to call that god and to say that I am that. Identification is part of the creation and using identification to label or connote that behaviour of reality is just something that doesn't make sense to me at all.

I also think its really fucken silly to say that you're creating reality and that you can manifest whatever you want when the truth is the universe manifests things without your control. You are not creating your own reality if you can't put your hand through the wall or burn your house with your finger tips, end of story.

I have a desire to know why and how the nebulous spontaneous mega computer works and why it creates things randomly (or is it random?) and how it does it, etc.

I also have a desire to know how to manifest things in the world and how to control it more to suit my agenda. I dont give a fuck about being egoic, getting what i want is a bigger priority to me then upholding some values of being non egoic. I dont care about enlightenment.

@electroBeam Yeah I think I see where your getting stuck at. Okay so you wanna try an learn to go "meta". Ill do my best to articulate this. Its like you observe within your mind from a place right before an "identification" process would happen. Like in your mind you take a step back before labeling, before an act to identify with anything at all and you observe from a higher perspective.

Your mistaking how you interpret "creating your own reality" Its not the same as for example like your creating a stick figure on a piece of paper using a pencil. Its closer to the way your creating vision by opening your eyes, Its rather an automatic function that works with you as you. Its just that the "external" world functions like that as well, because there are actually no boundaries but it takes a state change in consciousness for you to see it that way. Certain aspects of reality are only perceivable depending on your state. Different states offer different perceptions. At the level we are discussing its possible to become conscious of (or be able to perceive)  that creation process.

I cant answer your question as to why certain elements manifest in your own reality and their randomness, but there are techniques you can begin doing to raise your own awareness and begin your own inquiry into that. Leo mentions them. 

As for your last point, Your question is better phrased "How do I structure my life to satisfy my "desires/goals"  You basically just need to learn how to strategize your life in a manner that facilitates a path to reach your goals. You backwards engineer the step you need to take to arrive at your goal. As you engage in your day to day steps, which would consist of mainly learning and training or saving, is the manner in which your creating the potential to reach your goal. This varies greatly based on what you want. From skill development, to material possessions to relationships.

The idea of manifestation and control I assume you have to influence things spontaneously at will at the moment you conceive them in your mind with no action just isn't something for your current state of consciousness. How-ever!

 The way you learn to manifest things is the degree you learn to discover what is required to manifest your desire. As well as the degree to which your able to let go. Manifestation works on the level of thought then you have to learn how to translate those thoughts into your direct experience via action taking. Manifesting a skill takes training and consistency. Obtaining material possessions requires money. How-ever, the experiences vary greatly; but based on your level of consciousness, sometimes your in the right place at the right time and what you need is provided. Sometimes by another person or you find it, and you may think to yourself how it seems to be a coincidence you obtained the thing but its a rare form of manifestation. Sometimes manifestation can be spontaneous at certain levels such as finding an item left in a random location you walk past minutes after it was on your mind, but you still had to go do the walking to find it. These example are vary rare but possible, the more you let go of wanting them the more likely they are to manifest for you, its about intention the letting go. Its not exactly known how this happens but its more common the higher your level of consciousness, but for a more grounded way to manifest material possessions you need be financially able to. How you manifest money is an entire skill in itself which you can research how to do. Manifestation is better stated as " the act of appearing in your reality" which your familiar with going to work and getting a paycheck and if you have direct deposit money manifests or appears into your bank account. Its easier understood when looking at it in that manner. Manifesting circumstances takes exploring and doing things that can lead up to it. Like if you wanted to manifest a trip to a car show you gotta look up car show locations and go attend one. 

Control is an illusion but I can tell you how to manage the illusion of it. The degree you learn to control is the degree you can control yourself and manage your emotions. Then to the degree you understand how persuasion works, the degree you learn how anticipation works, the degree you can think steps ahead, and many other factors. It depends on which area you desire control in and what situation. For example if you desire to control people you need to learn the psychology of persuasion and how that whole process works. Understanding a persons habits, tendencies and aversions and attractions and how to influence those element in your favor. I do not encourage manipulating others to get what you want or to do things for you but that is an available option of control if you learn to do it properly. Another example is in Martial Arts I can control my opponent by learning how to anticipate his attacks based on his body movements or lead him into making a specific attack based on my own actions that will create an opening or a weak spot in his defenses that I will then take advantage of and launch a counter move such as an arm lock of some kind successfully controlling my opponent.  It all depends on what kind of control your looking for, what your agenda is. Then finding methods to do that. A funny example is you can control the flow of traffic if you drive in the fast lane the same speed and parallel to a vehicle in the slow lane successfully controlling the speed of all the other cars behind you. Control is how your able to dictate circumstances successfully and input your own adjustments to facilitate an outcome. 

 

 

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Maybe the message of the trips is true, but your interpretation is superficially literal.

I've never done psychedelics, but have delved into the subconscious mind. It is a shadow puppeteer. See the deeper symbolic meaning. Maybe your mom not treating you fairly, or a girl not liking you, are merely symbols for a more profound message waiting to be realized.

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1 hour ago, Kamo said:

@electroBeam

@electroBeam Yeah I think I see where your getting stuck at. Okay so you wanna try an learn to go "meta". Ill do my best to articulate this. Its like you observe within your mind from a place right before an "identification" process would happen. Like in your mind you take a step back before labeling, before an act to identify with anything at all and you observe from a higher perspective.

Your mistaking how you interpret "creating your own reality" Its not the same as for example like your creating a stick figure on a piece of paper using a pencil. Its closer to the way your creating vision by opening your eyes, Its rather an automatic function that works with you as you. Its just that the "external" world functions like that as well, because there are actually no boundaries but it takes a state change in consciousness for you to see it that way. Certain aspects of reality are only perceivable depending on your state. Different states offer different perceptions. At the level we are discussing its possible to become conscious of (or be able to perceive)  that creation process.

I cant answer your question as to why certain elements manifest in your own reality and their randomness, but there are techniques you can begin doing to raise your own awareness and begin your own inquiry into that. Leo mentions them. 

As for your last point, Your question is better phrased "How do I structure my life to satisfy my "desires/goals"  You basically just need to learn how to strategize your life in a manner that facilitates a path to reach your goals. You backwards engineer the step you need to take to arrive at your goal. As you engage in your day to day steps, which would consist of mainly learning and training or saving, is the manner in which your creating the potential to reach your goal. This varies greatly based on what you want. From skill development, to material possessions to relationships.

The idea of manifestation and control I assume you have to influence things spontaneously at will at the moment you conceive them in your mind with no action just isn't something for your current state of consciousness. How-ever!

 The way you learn to manifest things is the degree you learn to discover what is required to manifest your desire. As well as the degree to which your able to let go. Manifestation works on the level of thought then you have to learn how to translate those thoughts into your direct experience via action taking. Manifesting a skill takes training and consistency. Obtaining material possessions requires money. How-ever, the experiences vary greatly; but based on your level of consciousness, sometimes your in the right place at the right time and what you need is provided. Sometimes by another person or you find it, and you may think to yourself how it seems to be a coincidence you obtained the thing but its a rare form of manifestation. Sometimes manifestation can be spontaneous at certain levels such as finding an item left in a random location you walk past minutes after it was on your mind, but you still had to go do the walking to find it. These example are vary rare but possible, the more you let go of wanting them the more likely they are to manifest for you, its about intention the letting go. Its not exactly known how this happens but its more common the higher your level of consciousness, but for a more grounded way to manifest material possessions you need be financially able to. How you manifest money is an entire skill in itself which you can research how to do. Manifestation is better stated as " the act of appearing in your reality" which your familiar with going to work and getting a paycheck and if you have direct deposit money manifests or appears into your bank account. Its easier understood when looking at it in that manner. Manifesting circumstances takes exploring and doing things that can lead up to it. Like if you wanted to manifest a trip to a car show you gotta look up car show locations and go attend one. 

Control is an illusion but I can tell you how to manage the illusion of it. The degree you learn to control is the degree you can control yourself and manage your emotions. Then to the degree you understand how persuasion works, the degree you learn how anticipation works, the degree you can think steps ahead, and many other factors. It depends on which area you desire control in and what situation. For example if you desire to control people you need to learn the psychology of persuasion and how that whole process works. Understanding a persons habits, tendencies and aversions and attractions and how to influence those element in your favor. I do not encourage manipulating others to get what you want or to do things for you but that is an available option of control if you learn to do it properly. Another example is in Martial Arts I can control my opponent by learning how to anticipate his attacks based on his body movements or lead him into making a specific attack based on my own actions that will create an opening or a weak spot in his defenses that I will then take advantage of and launch a counter move such as an arm lock of some kind successfully controlling my opponent.  It all depends on what kind of control your looking for, what your agenda is. Then finding methods to do that. A funny example is you can control the flow of traffic if you drive in the fast lane the same speed and parallel to a vehicle in the slow lane successfully controlling the speed of all the other cars behind you. Control is how your able to dictate circumstances successfully and input your own adjustments to facilitate an outcome. 

 

 

that was really elegantly and concisely written from my standpoint. Thankyou for putting the time into that. You went down and spoke at my level of understanding instead of trying to speak to me from above. That's really clarifying, particularly your recontextualization of creation and control. Put that text up on my computer wallpaper for a while to embody that.

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Posted (edited)

@electroBeam Your welcome brother, Thank you for positively acknowledging it. I appreciate that as well. Im very glad you understood it! Its tricky to communicate this stuff. I noticed we here on the forum would create a much better environment to learn and grow when we try to work at a persons level if we choose to offer advice. Yes of course it is deeper than that, and becomes increasing more challenging to understand, Its easy to just say it how it is from the experienced state of consciousness, and think your all wise, but what is wisdom if your not executing proper use of it. What sense will that make to talk about it to others unless you help bring them up to some form of relating to it to get them going, the process will then take care of itself if you remain consistent on contemplating it . The reconextualizing is the most important part. As you grow even all that will again recontextualize, Its challenging enough to understand these things let alone communicate it to others who are trying to understand it. It also helps clarify for my own experience when i can communicate my understanding of it which helps me grow as well. This is my perspective of it and everyone will have a unique version based on where they are at but generally it can be understand in simple terms and again letting it go to work itself out. Its just like teaching martial arts you cant teach Black belt stuff to a White belt. You can but its just too much. You have to break it down some so the mind can start to see the pieces and you start to understand how the structures unfold and turn into new forms. Allowing growth of ways of interpreting. You can show the same move 3 times and 3 different times you see something different, then you begin to interconnect ways of thinking about it that unlock new aspects. 

Edited by Kamo

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