Who Wants A 2-hr Jordy P Analysis Video?

[Phyllis Wagner]

Hey Guys, this is God speaking through a non-realized Ego. Please stop talking about me, I have deluded myself for a reason. Thanks.

[TheDao]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You see, when a man cries, he has to be Green. That is the rule  

@Carl-Richard I notice you do this often. Mischaracterizing what the others say. Do you do this all the time?

[Carl-Richard]

4 minutes ago, TheDao said:

@Carl-Richard I notice you do this often. Mischaracterizing what the others say. Do you do this all the time?

When have I ever done that?

[Loving Radiance]

@TheDao Thank you, that cleared up alot. So then how does compassion for men look like at blue, orange and yellow? What are the differences? I mean they have to be distinct tastes amirite?

 

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That is the rule

You crack me up

[Loving Radiance]

@TheDao My point is that I'm interested how I can differentiate between compassion coming from blue, orange or yellow.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Loving Radiance

[Thought Art]

Nah, man. Leo comes off as so balanced in this video so far. I think Leo, if even imperfectly works to see things holistically. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, TheDao said:

 

@Leo Gura You deeply wrongly characterized him as uncaring about inequalities. He cares deeply and cries often about the massive and unnecessary pain of men.

He cries crocodile tears but will not vote for progress to fix corruption or climate change.

It's absurd.

Come back and tell me when JP actually votes for a politician who will fix predatory capitalism. Until then, it's all empty words and excuses.

[Thought Art]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He cries crocodile tears but will not vote for progress to fix corruption or climate change.

It's absurd.

Come back and tell me when JP actually votes for a politician who will fix predatory capitalism. Until then, it's all empty words and excuses.

Ah, be careful there. A lack of understanding or holistic perspective is not a lack of love. When you mention crocodile tears I assume you are saying he doesn't really care or feel love or passion.

JP is very passionate and loving, moved to tears by his work and his message and the postive feedback he receives from people who claim he helped them in their personal lives. You are right about these systemic issues. ...he isn't God and doesn't see all perspectives and has blind spots. 

Also, I think that might be false that he 'will not vote for a bill to fix corruption'... I think he would stand for things HE thought was corruption. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Thought Art

[TheDao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Come back and tell me when JP actually votes for a politician who will fix predatory capitalism.

@Leo Gura I don't know for who he votes. His tears are not crocodile at all. Do you know what psychologist usually do all day. How much empathy it takes listening to all the suffering day in day out? I don't think you are the one qualified saying such things. In the case you listen to stories of suffering day in day out, then you will be more qualified to say such things. Until then I think he cares more than you.

 

But careful with overregulating capitalism, it could do more harm than good . Peterson protects well against undeveloped green regression.

O and Peterson will probably not agree with your arbitrary simplistic spiral dynamics model.

Edited May 10, 2021 by TheDao

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, TheDao said:

@Leo Gura I don't know for who he votes. But careful with overregulating capitalism, it could do more harm than good .

Everything should be done in balance. unhinged capitalism is, has been and will be very destructive. 

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

He cries crocodile tears but will not vote for progress to fix corruption or climate change.

It's absurd.

Come back and tell me when JP actually votes for a politician who will fix predatory capitalism. Until then, it's all empty words and excuses.

From what you know of J.P., is it your sense that this due to him operating in Bad Faith and not actually giving a damn about fixing Predatory Capitalism and addressing Climate Change?

Or do you think it's more a case that he isn't developed enough to recognize how his own biases are preventing him from thinking systematically about Societal Issues?

Sometimes it can be hard to tell whether an otherwise Intelligent person at the lower Value Memes truly doesn't recognize that something is a problem, or whether they do recognize but don't actually care enough to try and fix it.

I kind of get the sense that he has extreme tunnel vision for monomyths as a normative force for fixing the perceived deficiencies of modern society, but I'd be interested to hear whether or not you agree.

Edited May 10, 2021 by DocWatts

[AtheisticNonduality]

Men failing at life at a higher rate need not be a cultural issue to fix.  It's like feminists complaining about the wage gap when that's really a product of innate feminine nature.

[andyjohnsonman]

Ok I just finished the Jordan Peterson video. Was a great episode Leo. Here's a few thoughts I had through it tho - 

 

Wouldn't you say Jordan Peterson on the whole is doing good work as he is helping people who maybe grew up in an orange or green environment who maybe struggle with discipline or those other stage blue values to help integrate them? 

 

I feel like your emphasis is on moving people up the spiral but isn't it an integral persons job to help people express healthy versions of their stage which even if JP isn't integral this is what he's doing with blue. 

There was a part where you talk about individualism vs collectivism and stage blue being collective and then it goes individual again. The point you made was on a poisoning and mercury being a collective issue. After reading the religion of tomorrow  Wilber shows that the earlier stages think about their politics in terms of the individual (1st person, second person) and as you move into modernity you can see the world from 3rd person and think about collective issues.  (I, WE, IT, ITS)

I was wondering why you never talk about the 4 quadrants and leave this completely out of your teachings when theres so much value to this? 

There was also a part of the episode where you talked about once all value systems are taken away then there's no distinctions between good or bad then you can love easier. I am feeling this is a problem with spiral dynamics for me - I feel by making distinctions of groups of ppl especally when some are considered higher or lower stages these distinctions can be a problem for me and make it easier to judge other groups/ people. 

[Danioover9000]

@andyjohnsonman

5 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said:

Ok I just finished the Jordan Peterson video. Was a great episode Leo. Here's a few thoughts I had through it tho - 

 

Wouldn't you say Jordan Peterson on the whole is doing good work as he is helping people who maybe grew up in an orange or green environment who maybe struggle with discipline or those other stage blue values to help integrate them? 

 

I feel like your emphasis is on moving people up the spiral but isn't it an integral persons job to help people express healthy versions of their stage which is what Jordan is doing with blue. 

There was a part where you talk about individualism vs collectivism and stage blue being collective and then it goes individual again. The point you made was on a poisoning and mercury being a collective issue. After reading the religion of tomorrow  Wilber shows that the earlier stages think about their politics in terms of the individual (1st person, second person) and as you move into modernity you can see the world from 3rd person and think about collective issues.  (I, WE, IT, ITS)

I was wondering why you never talk about the 4 quadrants and leave this completely out of your teachings when theres so much value to this? 

 

   You brought up a good point. Maybe it should be on Leo's list of videos he makes, one about Ken Wilbur's integral theory, and one about Carl Jung's shadow work. However I think he did a video in the spiral dynamics series, not specifically on a stage but the overall application of the modal, which is probably why Leo might not do one about integral theory.

[andyjohnsonman]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@andyjohnsonman

   You brought up a good point. Maybe it should be on Leo's list of videos he makes, one about Ken Wilbur's integral theory, and one about Carl Jung's shadow work. However I think he did a video in the spiral dynamics series, not specifically on a stage but the overall application of the modal, which is probably why Leo might not do one about integral theory.

Yea i'm really starting to resonate more with integral theory (AQAL) than spiral dynamics alone lately

[Danioover9000]

@Phyllis Wagner

6 hours ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

Do we really need to have a 1-hour God-Speech in every video now, no matter the topic? Actualized.org video start to feel like church.

   Of course we should, as this is Leo's highest value, teaching and vision for everyone and the world, at the moment. This is why it's crucial to pursue self actualisation, and discover your highest value to work towards. Even if at the highest potential it's leading to the same place, how you get there, how you impact others qnd the world around you, and what you create might be different.

   Included in his life purpose is teaching about love, infinity and god, so it makes sense to give a god speech at the end of most the videos. God forbid that we forget about god at some point

[TheDao]

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Men failing at life at a higher rate need not be a cultural issue to fix. 

@AtheisticNondualityIts a curious systematic thing I seem to find. Men not being strong and succesfull getting relativized away. Seems like protecting the gender roles. With a huge price that is.  Actually what JP is doing with his a bit emotional speaking, building empathy for men, is breaking through stereotyped gender roles. Which is what is said to be feminism by some. Great Job!

Quote

It's like feminists complaining about the wage gap when that's really a product of innate feminine nature.

Or a product from intensive day to day pressures from birth to conform to gender stereotypes?

Edited May 10, 2021 by TheDao

[TheDao]

46 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

JP keeps demonizing Trudeau, and keeps appearing on Ben Shapiro, Fox News, and Prager U, so yeah...

Because those are the only ones who listen to his critiques, maybe? The others see it as a to big threat to be able to listen. Maybe he is a democrat, don't know actually. I don't know him that well.

Edited May 10, 2021 by TheDao

[OneIntoOne]

@Leo Gura

I've watched the video.

I liked how you tell stage blue people thats not the real deal keep moving.

However,

I feel the vid was made with some agenda to push clicks and subscribers, and move in a certain direction for promotion, while using JP as the public name.

No, i can't prove it.

Just be your self, everything else will follow. People like you simply because they like what you offer. You have build a massive audience without that. Organic growth. 

Truth will come.

Edited May 10, 2021 by OneIntoOne

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, TheDao said:

I had very specific critique on why Jordan is very Green as well. 

If you think JP is very Green, you don't understand Spiral Dynamics. 

JP may have a smidgeon of Green, yet this is overwhelmed by his blue/orange anchors and massive Green shadow. 

The stages of purple, blue and green are community-based stages and each level has greater inclusion, egalitarianism, empathy and equity for a more expansive community. Blue is more expansive than Purple and Green is more expansive than both Purple and Blue. 

Purple and Blue contain a level of inclusion, empathy and equity - it is just at a lower level than Green. So saying JP displays empathy means nothing without context. A purple-level tribesman could show empathy for a fellow tribesman that was injured during a hunt.

As well, people are mixtures of stages. No one is 100% one stage. Each individual is within a social system that is a mixture of stages and each individual will be a influenced by that social system. It's more accurate to say someone is "centered" in a stage. For example, JP could be 40% blue, 50% Orange, 10% Green and 5% yellow, yet his small portion of Green could be overwhelmed by his Blue/Orange anchors and massive Green shadow. As well, his small portion of green and yellow would be used for a blue/orange agenda. 

Let's assume that JP was completely genuine while shedding tears for men that are struggling. Let's say that as a clinical psychologist, JP met with hundreds of men that were suffering and genuinely feels for them and wants to help them. Even if this is all true, it's not Green because his "community" is too contracted. Green community is more expansive and inclusive than men struggling with their gender. JP's community size would be more expansive than Purple, yet more contracted than Green. It would be like someone who felt for their fellow Catholics that are facing religious persecution. And this is being generous as we are assuming JP is completely generous and his constructs of gender are accurate. 

Assuming JP is genuine, the hint of green in JP would be him showing vulnerability and crying in front of others. That is counter to a standard blue/orange male role in which the man is the pillar of strength and doesn't express feminine emotions like crying. Assuming he is genuine, I would consider that green and it is good to show other men that it's ok for a man express 'feminine' emotions and cry. Yet this flash of green-ness does not put JP as very green. His structure is based on blue and orange constructs - not green. 

JP has stuff to offer in blue / orange to help bring up men through blue and into orange. This has value. Yet JPs poison is his intense green shadow and demonizing green as the cause of men's suffering. He characterizes men as victims. In the video you posted, he characterizes green as tyrants that are painting men as evil, misogynistic repressors. This is not a perspective of Green men. This is the perspective of blue men. 

A green perspective would acknowledge that a portion of men are struggling with identity. Yet a higher perspective can see how much of this is due to green-level progress that is expanding inclusion and community. Green level community is more expansive than blue. Green includes men, women, LGBTQ and doesn't have strict gender roles. This triggers blue/orange men like JP. Green is more progressive than than JP's center of gravity.