Carnivore cannot heal the gut, Leo

[Bogdan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Bogdan Gojiman's cure for SIBO is nothing new or special. It's the standard anti-microbial supplement treatment plan: oregano oil, berberine, and allicin.

I've been taking those for months to no avail.

And I am still experimenting with various supplement combos.

Carnivore diet has been way more effective for me then any supplement combo I've tried so far. And I've tried something like 100+ supplements.

Supplements are useless when there is an underlying autoimmune condition triggered by diet and toxins.

I know that he doesn't prescribe the same thing to everyone. And i don't think it's about what you take, but more so how you take them. He advises against taking these things blindly on your own. From what i understand there is a very strategic protocol of quickly repopulating the good bacteria without repopulating the bad ones after the treatment is done. And it's things like that to me seem impossible to nail on your own, because it's personalized based on your unique bacterial profile.

That was one of my arguments/criticisms all along - that in your mind you think you went down that route and tried all the antibacterials and the supplements, but maybe you overlooked some crucial part of that process that nullifies (is that the right word?) the whole thing.

[Leo Gura]

@Bogdan Look dude, if I want advice, I will ask for it. You do not understand my situation and I am not going to waste time explaining to you. I have a dozen people giving me unsolicited and blind advice in a dozen different directions. Yet they don't even know my health situation or what I have already tried. It's a waste of time. It's not wise to stick your nose too much in someone else's business. I know you're just trying to help, but you know nearly nothing about my health.

- - - - - - -

For anyone reading this who wants a good summary of how to treat SIBO, here you go:

https://sites.google.com/view/sibo-notes/treatment

In my experience, none of that will work unless you radically cut out all carbs from your diet. Ideally carnivore for at least a month or two. Stop consuming all carbs entirely.

Before you invest in all these treatment protocols make sure your do a SIBO breath test to verify that you have hydrogen or methane SIBO. The breath test is crucial.

[Anastas Sia]

I've tried going carnivore for 2 months, and I've only had good experiences. Stable energy, no gas(except when I ate dairy), digestion worked like a clock, I could eat once a day, hair and nails grow quicker etc. I don't know much about nutrition and it's confusing but meat and eggs are probably the only foods Ive never had a negative reaction to, though I wouldn't do it for the rest of my life for ethical reasons

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, Bogdan said:

quickly repopulating the good bacteria without repopulating the bad ones after the treatment is done

Just fwiw, from my research, it seems once you do that... If you simply get on with your life, homeostasis will slowly take you back to your set point. I.e. you have to take probiotics and prebiotics/potato/carrot in the correct ratios/amounts (for you) for the rest of your life.

[Bogdan]

@Michael569 This whole thread has been a good reminder to not idolize anyone. Seems like one can never be too careful with that whole ideology thing . The guy that made the video clearly knows a lot of physiology and speaks very confidently, but i wouldn't trust him on doing proper meta analysis on his own like that. Yeah probably Gojiman has a bias against oils, but then again, oils aren't that healthy anyways. That has been proven time and time again.

 @Leo Gura I will be more careful about giving unsolicited advice. My intention was healthy constructive criticism, based on things you stated in public videos that were about your health.

@The0Self Interesting, it does make sense, but idk. Anyway it beats having to deal with cramps, bloating, diarrhea, mental fog and stuff like that . I will post my own results in (hopefully) a few months from now. 

[aurum]

8 hours ago, intotheblack said:

@Leo Gura @aurum the water from young coconuts is full of electrolytes.. have you tried drinking that on a fast?  I wonder if that would help when needing an energy boost.   
 

The problem is that then you're no longer on a fast. Coconut water has significant calories + carbs. So yes, it might help when breaking a fast. But you can't say you're still fasting at that point if that is your goal.

Also, I think too much coconut water is not good either. It's a diuretic and so I find I can only drink so much of it.

Better to just supplement your electrolytes with Snake Juice if you're serious about doing a long term fast.

Cole from Snake Diet has also recommended drinking urine while fasting. His argument is that urine has all the electrolytes you need plus tons of other good stuff that doesn't break your fast. I'll leave that one up to whoever is reading this to decide.

[Paul5480]

@Leo Gura

Have you tried a fruitarian diet?

[Danioover9000]

@Paul5480

6 minutes ago, Paul5480 said:

@Leo Gura

Have you tried a fruitarian diet?

 

   I remember this guy. He was talking shit to one of the pigs he owns, feeding it a fish carcas, and making a speach about how people are like this pig, so switch to eating fruits. For a supposed 'sage', I guess the behaviour is fitting. The wild pig on the other hand is just being, enjoying chomping  on some meat. I wonder what it thinks and feels if it understood the owner's attitude to it? Also, it's actually not massive, for a Hawaii wild pig.

[vladorion]

Gojiman doesn't even look healthy. I bet he's got health issues himself.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Paul5480 said:

@Leo Gura

Have you tried a fruitarian diet?

This is just my guess: if the vegan diet had the worst effects on him, I think the fruitarian diet would be even worse.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Paul5480 said:

@Leo Gura

Have you tried a fruitarian diet?

I can't eat any plants! It feeds SIBO.

[spinderella]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:51 AM, SaltyMeatballs said:

Personally I haven't tried the diet myself so I'm not an expert. However, Mikhaila Peterson (Jordan Petersons daughter) is a good example of someone who adopted the carnivore diet and claims to have changed her life for the better because of it.

 

 

I have tried the diet and did find it helpful.  For the record, Mikhaila Peterson has had a hip and an ankle replaced and now doesn't suffer from depresion, anxiety, or rheumatoid arthritis.  So, is it an awesome diet?  No.  But it did heal something. 

[spinderella]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:38 AM, Phyllis Wagner said:

If there are so many good results on carnivore could it be that humans should simply eat meat all the times ? Maybe all that Ayurveda and Buddhism don't hurt animals stuff isn't true after all. I guess humans are just supposed to kill and eat meat only.

After all our bodies are still hunter-gatherers, maybe the whole confusion started once people started farming their food 10.000 years ago, maybe that was the wrong move.

I do wonder about this - with respect to spirituality.  I've come around to believing that humans are physically meant to eat meat (from my lived experience of doing the carnivore diet), but I do think from a vibrational standpoint that meat is probably a lower vibration than plants.  From a spiritual vibration standpoint, fasting is probably best.  But this is just what I think, based on....almost nothing.  

[spinderella]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:44 AM, The0Self said:

For people who don't get a bad reaction to starch and plants, it is best to include those in the diet -- to counteract the carnivore diet's effect on cholesterol and the cardiovascular system. You only need carnivore if you need it, and hopefully not forever but if that's all they can do, it probably beats a diet of processed foods by a long shot. Doesn't mean it's the optimal diet by any means.

It does not seem to be the case that humans should eat meat only, but it also seems to be the case that eliminating meat entirely (and especially eliminating animal products entirely) makes optimal health a bit more complicated, not that it can't still be pursued.

The first part of your post with respect to cholesterol and cardiology is based on medical "science" dogma.  Have you watched Leo's video that breaks down science?  Most of what we know about cholesterol and saturated fat is based on industry funded, cherry picked sham science.  Unfortunately.  

Edited April 13, 2021 by spinderella

[spinderella]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:35 PM, Leo Gura said:

Fact: tribal folk who eat lots of meat tend to have clogged arteries.

Hard to argue with that.

Source?

[spinderella]

Can someone tell me at what point in the latest video Leo talks about carnivore?  I know I could look it up myself but I'm in over my eyeballs deconstructing the myth of science....

[Blacksheep]

Check his latest blog post: 

https://actualized.org/insights/water-fast-ends-carnivore-diet-begins

[spinderella]

16 minutes ago, Blacksheep said:

Check his latest blog post: 

https://actualized.org/insights/water-fast-ends-carnivore-diet-begins

Thanks!

On 4/11/2021 at 10:44 AM, The0Self said:

For people who don't get a bad reaction to starch and plants, it is best to include those in the diet -- to counteract the carnivore diet's effect on cholesterol and the cardiovascular system. You only need carnivore if you need it, and hopefully not forever but if that's all they can do, it probably beats a diet of processed foods by a long shot. Doesn't mean it's the optimal diet by any means.

It does not seem to be the case that humans should eat meat only, but it also seems to be the case that eliminating meat entirely (and especially eliminating animal products entirely) makes optimal health a bit more complicated, not that it can't still be pursued.

The first part of your post with respect to cholesterol and cardiology is based on medical "science" dogma.  Have you watched Leo's video that breaks down science?  Most of what we know about cholesterol and saturated fat is based on industry funded and industry funded sham science.  Unfortunately.  

[The0Self]

11 minutes ago, spinderella said:

The first part of your post with respect to cholesterol and cardiology is based on medical "science" dogma.  Have you watched Leo's video that breaks down science?  Most of what we know about cholesterol and saturated fat is based on industry funded and industry funded sham science.  Unfortunately. 

It is most certainly not based on that.

Yes, cardiologists are behind the curve. I know what you might be pointing to — I was speaking at a basic level, not meaning to imply that there even is necessarily “bad” cholesterol. I aim to be as holistic in my continuous integration of information as absolutely possible.

What it is based on is weighted anecdotes, trial and error, holism, research, and integration... and thus, it is necessarily tentative.

[Ryan R]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Bogdan Look dude, if I want advice, I will ask for it. You do not understand my situation and I am not going to waste time explaining to you. I have a dozen people giving me unsolicited and blind advice in a dozen different directions. Yet they don't even know my health situation or what I have already tried. It's a waste of time. It's not wise to stick your nose too much in someone else's business. I know you're just trying to help, but you know nearly nothing about my health. 

@Leo Gura Yep, this is exactly why I didn't offer any advice. As soon as I heard of your condition some time ago I wanted so badly to chime in and say, "Water fast man!" but I was also concerned that your autoimmune/thyroid issues might make fasting very difficult for you. I'm so sorry your fasting experience went so poorly, but it's awesome that Carnivore is working so well!

Briefly on fasting, as I think I sense curiosity of it as a spiritual tool from you and many in this community, it is typically very useful for facilitating transcendent states but it does not generally do so on it's own. What 'should' happen is approximately 3 days in most hunger should subside and yield to a generally low physical and mental energy state that is extremely grounded, centered, clear, and profoundly fertile for allowing meditation, breath work, etc, to deeply and quickly impact preceived human Consciousness. This sweet-spot or sweet-period of a fasted state fluctuates a bit but normally lasts days or even weeks (if you're fat, lol). If left to go until it ends, it terminates in the severe hunger, weakness, and the basic feeling that bodily shutdown may be near much as you describe in your blog post.

A major rule of fasting is: Listen to the Body! I'm glad you broke your fast earlier than you planned my friend. It was the right thing to do.

I know you are a very smart guy who has done and is doing a great deal of research. I know you will overcome this life challenge. As a strategic problem solver and someone who has done and supervised many fasts for a variety of reasons I want to offer you worst case scenario hope.

I doubt I'm telling you anything you don't know, but if this comes to the point of you solve this or die trying, consider a clinical medically supervised fast... of 3-6 weeks. I know, I know, it will basically be paying doctors a ton of money to come close to starving you to death, but it should starve everything in your gut microbiom to death as well. That doesn't mean of course that it will heal the underlying condition. You could even pull an Elvis Presley and be put into a medically induced coma for much of it (the weight loss secret of the king, lol). I've deeply contemplated what I know of your situation and this is all I've come to as a do or die last resort. To hell with all the suffering and costs of such a method if Carnivore or anything else works of course.

Good luck Leo. Hang in there. We wish you the best.