How to break through the illusion of being a thought, once and for all?

[Javfly33]

Everybody here considers himself so awake but I can't think of anything more practical and basic that not believing yourself to be a thought. How many of you have achieved this on a permanent basis?

I had several awakenings of becoming Conscious enough to see that thoughts appear and dissappear, meanwhile Awareness, I Amness still exists, BUT I keep falling into the illusion.

This states of clearly seeing i am.not a thought but awareness have happened with Psychedelics but also sober too and with meditation too.. are we condemned to have only temporary states of recognizing who we are and then back fall into the illusion over and over?

To taste the sweet fruit of liberation and freedom and completeness to then become fragmented and the damn prison over and over again? When this damn joke ends lmao???

 

[Moksha]

Enlightened people are always awake. Sometimes it is a catastrophic awakening, as with Tolle, but usually it is a gradual awakening, like the sun rising into the sky. The more you practice vigilance, the fewer naps you will take.

[RedLine]

Practice and more practice. It is like a goldmine, you need to break and break stone every day to find gold. The further I advance in my practice, the more clearly I see all those elements that make up the ego's fiction.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I had several awakenings of becoming Conscious enough to see that thoughts appear and dissappear

The problem with awakenings is that once they finish the mind start an unstoppable process of interpretation . you know that interpretation is a kind of empty copy of something alive, but you cannot stop it, the mind is too used to dominating, being without mind produces vertigo, lack of restraint. At least, each time relaxes his pressure a few grams. You have to convince it little by little (I speak hypothetically, my mind is not silent, although I am increasingly able to ignore it). the reality is that you are fully aware that the mental process, the concepts and the ideas are false by definition, so I consider the evolution towards silence very likely. I still feel vertigo completely abandoning the concept, living in the void 

[Moksha]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I still feel vertigo completely abandoning the concept, living in the void 

It's interesting that you mention vertigo. I never used to experience it, but it happens fairly often for me now, when I am most spiritually aligned. I sometimes have to literally stop, and distract my brain by doing something inane for a while. If you don't mind me asking, does that happen to you?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Moksha

[James123]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Everybody here considers himself so awake but I can't think of anything more practical and basic that not believing yourself to be a thought. How many of you have achieved this on a permanent basis?

I had several awakenings of becoming Conscious enough to see that thoughts appear and dissappear, meanwhile Awareness, I Amness still exists, BUT I keep falling into the illusion.

This states of clearly seeing i am.not a thought but awareness have happened with Psychedelics but also sober too and with meditation too.. are we condemned to have only temporary states of recognizing who we are and then back fall into the illusion over and over?

To taste the sweet fruit of liberation and freedom and completeness to then become fragmented and the damn prison over and over again? When this damn joke ends lmao???

 

Key is Completely surrendering the self for any consequence.  Because when you completely surrender so called mind will have no place to hold on. Than you start to see illusion more easily and deeply. At that moment process of thoughts, which comes from egoistic self will be a joke. No thoughts will appear from separate self, they will be appear as you, therefore moment becomes more peaceful, silence and love. Nothing will bother you because there is no such a thing that is different than you. Everything appear as you. Than permanent satori comes, so called mind will be gone. Nothingness sits in the moment as the same way you see your dreams. And you become aware that actually you are dreaming now, but real self is here, always here, right now. Because you are here. When you dont think you are the moment. 

Additionally, when you realize that your birth comes from knowing, if you never learn, you will be never born, and when you not know you are right before birth. There will be no so called mind left. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

It's interesting that you mention vertigo. I never used to experience it, but it happens fairly often for me now

I have used the word vertigo because the sensation is similar to floating at a high altitude, and yes, you perceive that there is freedom but the lack of reference, of an anchor, is unpleasant, it is necessary to use a grip to feel safe . Even though you know that grip is fake .Something similar to what you say happens to me, if the meditation is truly empty, it could be unconfortable if it's too long, I have to stop, pick up the phone for a moment, think, etc. The addiction to the concept is strong

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall Thanks, that is helpful. Isn't it funny how even a false anchor can provide stability? Sometimes I feel like my brain is rewiring itself, and in a sense I guess it is.

[traveler]

The difficulty/predicament that the seeker finds himself in is the intense need to get something in order to get rid of something. There is no end to how deep this psychic reality can go, it is a loop. I for one have a very close family member who is deep in a tormenting bubble of seeking, he is oblivious to what I am saying because he is opsessed with getting, and this you can not get. The message can not be heard by that energy but the message might slowly dissolve that energy, not so much the message but an energy of peace and silence slowing down the clockwork of the opposite. 

There just really is nothing to do. If you just stopped for a moment what would be left? This question looks useful on the surface but it doesn't work, because you would be there looking for the answer to what was left. It's kind of how things are occuring here, for "me," it's like there is less and less fuel for that desperate energy of needing to know. Nothing is revealed, this doesn't suddenly make total sense, it is just the end of that resisting force.

One start could be stop participating in this forum, that is what happened here when the seeking died down. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by traveler

[Leo Gura]

@Javfly33  30 day solo meditation retreat. Meditation non-stop 24/7 until something breaks.

You will never awaken deeply through 1-hour daily practice. It's never going to be enough.

You must stake your entire life on it if you want it. This is how all the masters did it and why none of their students succeed. It takes seriousness, and you are not serious.

[GroovyGuru]

@Leo Gura Meditating for one hour a day is basically what I do. Would you say that I'm just wasting my time doing that? Is it even worth it if that's all I really do? I'm asking because maybe I need to start meditating more every day, or perhaps incorporate other practices. I am in no position to take a 30 day solo retreat any time soon.

I've been watching your channel for years, and although my life has certainly improved, it's gotten to the point where I'm disappointed in myself for the overall lack of action I've taken during this time, and I finally want to change this. Sure I meditate here and there, but I'd be lying if I said I've been giving it my all. It's honestly hard when you are young, there are just dozens of distractions at every corner.

Edited December 2, 2020 by GroovyGuru

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, GroovyGuru said:

@Leo Gura Meditating for one hour a day is basically what I do. Would you say that I'm just wasting my time doing that? Is it even worth it if that's all I really do? I'm asking because maybe I need to start meditating more every day, or perhaps incorporate other practices. I am in no position to take a 30 day solo retreat any time soon.

Depends on your goals.

It's an important habit regardless because there's no way you will be able to handle even a 10 day retreat without years of daily practice.

1 hr per day is important but not nearly enough for serious awakening.

If you can't do 30 days, then even 10 days is good. I had my first awakening on day 8 of a 10 day retreat. And I wasn't even meditating close to 24/7. Even 8 days of 5 hrs of strict meditation per day is enough for a breakthrough. Building up momentum is the key to breaking through. Your mind must be 100% focused on the task of awakening and not any other survival distractions.

[Free Mind]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Depends on your goals.

It's an important habit regardless because there's no way you will be able to handle even a 10 day retreat without years of daily practice.

1 hr per day is important but not nearly enough for serious awakening.

If you can't do 30 days, then even 10 days is good. I had my first awakening on day 8 of a 10 day retreat. And I wasn't even meditating close to 24/7. Even 8 days of 5 hrs of strict meditation per day is enough for a breakthrough. Building up momentum is the key to breaking through. Your mind must be 100% focused on the task of awakening and not any other survival distractions.

Lol, are you talking about that really old enlightenment experience you shared on the 2015 video? 
 

Did you ever think you’d end up seeing the whole Ox, eat it and shit it out, then smear the shit over your entire being??

[VeganAwake]

9 minutes ago, Free Mind said:

Lol, are you talking about that really old enlightenment experience you shared on the 2015 video? 
 

Did you ever think you’d end up seeing the whole Ox, eat it and shit it out, then smear the shit over your entire being??

Its white rabbit in the west jack ?

[cetus]

@Javfly33 Any attempt to do anything only reinforces the illusion.

[VeganAwake]

8 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

BUT I keep falling into the illusion.

Who keeps falling into what illusion?

The 'I' is the illusion!!

Step One is recognizing there was never a 'you' in the first place.... everything else falls into place afterwards. ❤

 

[Nahm]

17 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Everybody here considers himself so awake but I can't think of anything more practical and basic that not believing yourself to be a thought. How many of you have achieved this on a permanent basis?

Story of others, achievement...reinforces the belief you’re separate. 

17 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I had several awakenings of becoming Conscious enough to see that thoughts appear and dissappear, meanwhile Awareness, I Amness still exists, BUT I keep falling into the illusion.

Story of you awakening & falling into the illusion is thoughts only. It’s a story about a ‘you’. 

17 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

This states of clearly seeing i am.not a thought but awareness have happened with Psychedelics but also sober too and with meditation too.. are we condemned to have only temporary states of recognizing who we are and then back fall into the illusion over and over?

To taste the sweet fruit of liberation and freedom and completeness to then become fragmented and the damn prison over and over again? When this damn joke ends lmao???

 

States, condemnation, psychedelics, sober, temporary states, illusion, fragmented, prison...nobody’s forcing you to retell these stories about yourself. Contemplate why you’re doing this. Be attentive to what you are being inattentive to.  ‘Go back’, to the very first step of avoiding feeling. 

10 hours ago, cetus said:

@Javfly33 Any attempt to do anything only reinforces the illusion.

?? 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Javfly33  This is exactly my case 2 weeks ago.

I made a post about that, and @Nahm made me realise I identify with the "seeker" the spiritual ego. Maybe reading my post might help you realise the same thing.

I am not sure if you actually need to awaken to be "liberated". I had a lot of awakenings, but they were never permanent and I thought I had to get there. Pursuing awakenings is not necessarily pursuing liberation. I'm avoiding the term enlightenment, because I consider "liberation" being a part of enlightenment but not the whole thing.

Here is exactly what I did, I contemplated free will, thoughts, effort etc. I noticed I differentiated between the random thoughts and the controlling thoughts. Differentiated between the "spiritual ego" and the "ego". I had to contemplate all those things to realise that a thought is a thought.

Write down every different type of thought, everything that leads to a thought, every thought that is reactive, and every thought that come out of free will. What is the difference between a thought that leads to action, or a thought that isn't followed. Who decides what to do? What is the decider?

Make up thoughts, make free will experiments (like write down what you think you are going to do next, and see if you can do something else).

You need to differentiate every thought, every combination of thought-emotion-action-time. The chain of thought. thoughts reacting to thoughts etc.

This doesn't even take long, just contemplate it, write it down, as much as possible with the intention to find out what types of thoughts there are.

Again, I am not sure if you need to have had awakenings or be very mindful to be able to do that. I just see similarities between your situation and my previous situation.

And read my post: 

@Leo Gura I'm not sure forcing yourself to meditate more than you can handle is better or even faster. Adyashanti said that, going at it with determination like an athlete just worked for him because he struggled so hard he finally gave  up everything and had an awakening.
Most people aren't ready to experience hell in order to "know the truth about hell". Forcing yourself to do self inquiry and meditation is just not a long term solution for most people who desire changes in perception (awakenings) or "liberation from suffering".

If you truly want to experience "GOD's mercy", just give him no choice but to have mercy, go get tortured closing the door behind you. You'll give up any sanity you had left for truth. 

If you enjoy meditation, and it feels good, your mind will simply end up desiring to meditate more, and fall into mindfulness meditation during the day. Mixing effort- with effortless-meditation raises concentration too.
You cannot start to sprint in the middle of a marathon. Keep the pace.

The mind needs to build up momentum, by desiring to meditate. If it feels good to be focussed, the mind will naturally enter that state. If it feels bad the mind will try everything to get away from "IT".

Same with psychedelics. If you expect a bad trip every time you take a psychedelic there is no way you are going to take them any longer.

Every Master worked hard and smart. Smart being more important than hard imo.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I'm not sure forcing yourself to meditate more than you can handle is better or even faster.

If you can't handle it, then stop pursuing awakening.

What you can handle increases as you increase your practice. That's the whole point of practice.

[Javfly33]

 

17 hours ago, James123 said:

Key is Completely surrendering the self for any consequence.  Because when you completely surrender so called mind will have no place to hold on. Than you start to see illusion more easily and deeply. At that moment process of thoughts, which comes from egoistic self will be a joke.

@James123 Got it!

Quote

Additionally, when you realize that your birth comes from knowing, if you never learn, you will be never born, and when you not know you are right before birth. There will be no so called mind left. 

I´m beggining to "understand" what you mean with that. Nice  

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Javfly33  30 day solo meditation retreat. Meditation non-stop 24/7 until something breaks.

You will never awaken deeply through 1-hour daily practice. It's never going to be enough.

You must stake your entire life on it if you want it. This is how all the masters did it and why none of their students succeed. It takes seriousness, and you are not serious.

I´ve done so far a retreat or 6 days. And I wasn´t even meditating for 3 days. Next one I will be able to do a 7 days with way more intensity.

I am serious, but at the same time you also say that you must work through the survival basic things before going full throttle with enlightement. So my focus is not 100% on enlightment right now. But that is a strategic move, not because of lazyness. I am suspecting now in a real way that I might not be the human body so this is beggining to become really serious and exciting. 

11 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Who keeps falling into what illusion?

The 'I' is the illusion!!

Step One is recognizing there was never a 'you' in the first place.... everything else falls into place afterwards. ❤

 

The big "I", the Self, the Universe, thats who I am and that is the one who keeps falling to the illusion

You are right that the "I" is the illusion (the "small I"), it seems you have "got it" permanently by your messages. Happy for you man. By some weird reason though it seems "I" keep believing myself to be this illusion

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

Story of others, achievement...reinforces the belief you’re separate. 

Story of you awakening & falling into the illusion is thoughts only. It’s a story about a ‘you’. 

States, condemnation, psychedelics, sober, temporary states, illusion, fragmented, prison...nobody’s forcing you to retell these stories about yourself. Contemplate why you’re doing this. Be attentive to what you are being inattentive to.  ‘Go back’, to the very first step of avoiding feeling. 

?? 

You say that a lot and i think it´s brilliant but it seems a quite impossible thing to do sober. I can only opening up to feeling when I am on psychedelics because they literally force me to it. But in my normal state (oh men, I am doing it again  ) seems a very far away possibility to do.