Roy

"Collapse of civilization the most likely outcome"

19 posts in this topic

What do you guys make of this?

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-06-08/collapse-of-civilisation-is-the-most-likely-outcome-top-climate-scientists/

Personally in spite of the pragmatic realist chatterbox I have going on in my mind all the time, I try to stay generally (and sometimes hopelessly) optimistic about the world and the future of it. However considering all the things I've learned and observed so far, and the ongoing/oncoming problems scientists are pointing to - I'm finding it difficult to maintain that resolve.

So in naïve hope of some relief I'm curious, what's the game plan for you guys personally? Heed the warnings and desperately try to fix everything? Concede that we are doomed and just live out as selfish a life as long as possible? Accept things as they are stoically and carry on?

I've had a handful of existential panic attacks about this, and having calmed down from those my contemplations have basically led me to decide I'm very likely going to forgo the traditional life expected from my society and family. My awareness has gotten to a point where I can't consciously participate in the system that's degrading our world and maintain reasonable sanity. Therefore I'll have to minimize my activity within it as much as possible;

I'm probably not going to have any children (though considering adoption), I don't care for getting married or buying a large house, I don't care for having a lifetime career and spending most my waking life accumulating a bunch of resources and material possessions. I essentially want to reduce my survival needs and make enough to live in a tiny eco home or boat, consume as little as possible, recycle and conserve my local environment, and volunteer to spread love and consciousness in whatever avenues available.

Doing your best despite the dire circumstances. and accepting them as they come and as they are seems to be the only option.

 

Edited by Roy

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

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Yeah, I basically just try to live a small and manageable life. I worry only about what is within my control, and don’t try to “save the world”. I also don’t strive for marriage or children, but relationships are still very satisfying. I avoid people mostly these days because of COVID-19, but I look forward to meeting more people and having more experiences when I feel safer about it.

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In addition to collapse creating a lot of suffering, it could also be a blessing that brings the fundamental shifts in consciousness necessary to progress our species forward. I'm not rooting for it, but just pointing out that a lot of beauty can come from the chaos that we're almost indefinitely going to experience in the coming century, collapse or not.

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Why worry about such shit? Rest assured it ain't gonna happen in your lifetime or even your children's children lifetime. For all I can see we are advancing exponentially like crazy. Nothing suggests any sudden inflection. Unless this covid thing is going to annihilate half the population or some similar Hollywood type of scenario.  


"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible"

-Albert Einstein. 

 

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@Someone here Lol. These types of views are precisely why society could collapse. 

Just now, Someone here said:

Rest assured it ain't gonna happen in your lifetime or even your children's children lifetime. 

 

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6 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@Someone here Lol. These types of views are precisely why society could collapse. 

 

What views!?. 

Also don't pretend like you care about more than 5 feets around you. 


"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible"

-Albert Einstein. 

 

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Love energy can heal the environment too, yes follow the science but that is also an unmeasurable factor

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This might sound extremely pessimistic. 

The climate is beyond a fix. We might try but it's too late already. 

Humanity is a sinking ship. Trying to do good things is similar to asking for a boat while the ship is capsizing in the storm. It will bring a little solace to the ego but not a solution.

Nothing to do but simply see it all going down in front of our eyes. The realization that much of the climate ordeal was caused by the continuous exploitation by humans. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This might sound extremely pessimistic. 

The climate is beyond a fix. We might try but it's too late already. 

Humanity is a sinking ship. Trying to do good things is similar to asking for a boat while the ship is capsizing in the storm. It will bring a little solace to the ego but not a solution.

Nothing to do but simply see it all going down in front of our eyes. The realization that much of the climate ordeal was caused by the continuous exploitation by humans. 

 

I’m inclined to agree, actually. Too much apathy from society in general.

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@Preety_India  I don't want to downplay the severity of the problem, in fact I think about climate change pretty much every day, but I don't think this is going to be the downfall of humanity. Things might get tough, sometimes extremely tough depending on who you are and where you live, but humanity is simply way too adaptable to let it truly destroy us. Plus, there's simply too many positive forces at work to let whatever setbacks climate change brings be apocalyptic.

Will society change dramatically? Yes. Will a lot of people lose their homes, their communities, become refugees, get sick, go hungry, and even die? Yes. Will it be the end of the world? No, not by a long shot. If anything it'll teach us a lot of powerful lessons that we can use to make an even better world once it's all said and done.


“All you need is Love” - John Lennon

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15 hours ago, Roy said:

That link is basically a Gish gallop. I realize I'm posting on an obscurantist forum but if there's anything in particular you want debunked, please be specific.

Regarding the main point though...

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/07/runaway-tipping-points-of-no-return/

15 hours ago, Roy said:

So in naïve hope of some relief I'm curious, what's the game plan for you guys personally? Heed the warnings and desperately try to fix everything? Concede that we are doomed and just live out as selfish a life as long as possible? Accept things as they are stoically and carry on?

I don't deal in "relief" and other forms of denial but thinking rationally about this for a minute might have a similar effect. Here are the basic facts of the matter: you don't have a crystal ball and neither do any of the ideologues who waste everyone's time with their everlasting emergencies. There's nothing to accept or concede because we don't know what's going to happen. But we do know pollution is a cumulative problem. Anything you don't do to help makes the problem worse and conversely that anything you actually do to help mitigates it. It's that simple. This never was about fixing everything.

One complication is that there is much work to do regarding adaptation as well as the mitigation. If you're interested you might take a look at how people are preparing for sea level rise in the Netherlands for instance. If you're more interested in politics and less technically-minded, there's also quite a bit of work do regarding future refugees, starting with defeating reactionaries in prosperous countries. Lamentations and existential bullshit achieve nothing.

Edited by commie

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Here in Australia, the Indigenous peoples lasted for tens of thousands of years, and the reason they survived was because they placed respect for nature at the forefront of their philosophy.

The narcissistic philosophy of contemporary man - the total apathy towards other beings, the primitive obsession with domineering, the contempt for feminine energy and the belief in being 'superior' to nature - is the philosophy that must die.

The modern version of respect for nature involves voting against fossil fuel lobbyist governments, supporting renewable energy/conservation, choosing a suitable place to live and limiting procreation. But politics, science and technology will play a central role. Beyond this practical action, the suffering that will continue to happen is out of our control so there's no point focusing on it.

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On 11/7/2020 at 7:56 PM, Someone here said:

Why worry about such shit? Rest assured it ain't gonna happen in your lifetime or even your children's children lifetime. For all I can see we are advancing exponentially like crazy. Nothing suggests any sudden inflection. Unless this covid thing is going to annihilate half the population or some similar Hollywood type of scenario.  

My dude do you know how climate change works and what the implications of living in 2 - 3 degree world are? 

Everything you take for granted about human civilization today was and is dependent on a stable climate system. In fact human agriculture could have never been initiated were it not for a stable and reliant climate favorable for growing crops. There is a reason why we spent hundreds of thousands of years as hunter gatherers. 

I have no doubt that human ingenuity will solve many issues related to energy and sustainability. However, we're on track to entering into a whole new world that will become increasingly inhospitable for large swaths of people. And climate change is no longer something that'll occur in 2100. It is occurring now and its accelerating exponentially. Unless we take immediate action we'll be spending our waning years watching the tragic destruction of the planet and each calamity that unfolds as a result.  Our children will be the ones who have to live their adult years in a world completely unrecognizeable from the world we live in today. 

 

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Hi.

I've seen a great documentary about climate change made by leading scientists from all over the world. They studied the climate cycles and discovered that the increasing temperatures we're experiencing right now are not a new phenomenon.

Climate change is real but has nothing to do with the human cause.


Me on the road less traveled.

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18 hours ago, abundance said:

My dude do you know how climate change works and what the implications of living in 2 - 3 degree world are? 

 

On 11/8/2020 at 3:59 AM, tuckerwphotography said:

@Someone here Lol. These types of views are precisely why society could collapse. 

 

I have an idea. As I said it's not that there aren't proplems. It's just that I don't care about them since they are not affecting my life. Civilization collapse ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. That's all I care about. After I die.. Let the entire universe collapse.. Who cares? 


"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible"

-Albert Einstein. 

 

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9 hours ago, Someone here said:

I have an idea. As I said it's not that there aren't proplems. It's just that I don't care about them since they are not affecting my life. Civilization collapse ain't gonna happen in my lifetime. That's all I care about. After I die.. Let the entire universe collapse.. Who cares? 

You do realize that this is the exact same mentality that has put us in this predicament, right? Offsetting the responsibility on younger and future generations to deal with climate change is just morally wrong. Especially when we have the time and means to do something meaningful about it.

Also, those of us younger than 30, will probably be spending our waning years watching the planet burn while the younger generations curse our existence for not doing anything about it. If you plan on having children, value living in a clean environment, value the natural world then you really have no reason not to care about this issue. 

Edited by abundance

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15 hours ago, abundance said:

You do realize that this is the exact same mentality that has put us in this predicament, right?

Honestly I am not In a predicament. I'm not sure if you are referring to Corona virus or other issues like climate change etc. 

 

15 hours ago, abundance said:

If you plan on having children, 

Don't insult me please jk lol 


"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible"

-Albert Einstein. 

 

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If you check out Daniel Schmachtengerger, Jim Rutt, Jordan Hall, Joe Brewer, and Nora Bateson's work (Particularly Jordan Hall and Daniel Schmachtenberger), they are stage yellow thinkers who focus on existential risk, meta-crises leading to cascading effects across our globalized world (which wasn't around in previous generations which makes our system currently more fragile), etc.  Really brilliant thinkers.

 


"Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down"   --   Marry Poppins

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